What to do?

[ACE2M]

Flying along in a tourney last night when....

Blinds at 300/600 and i have 21000
I make a steal form the cut off with an 1800 raise holding
The button calls and has 24,000 and has been at the table for about 7 hands and has played about 5 of them usually calling raises with questionable hands and sucking out against a couple of shorter stacks.
the blinds fold
the flop comes   
I lead out for a pot size bet 3000 and the button calls
the turn is 

What to do here? Should i shove them all in here? Or another pot sized bet? Basically should i milk him or try to pick it up here?

[jezza777]

I say push it. If he is a calling station as you say then you want him to pay the maximum for his draw ( unless he has j9) . The flop was quite a friendly flop for 2 pair but the turn is worrying, so many draws there that he will call a bet with you have to move in.

[ACE2M]

I agree i should have moved in but it was just a teaser for the river decision really.

I bet almost the pot again on the turn and left myself with 8kish and he called.

River 

Now what? Check and fold to a bet? Small bet and hope he just calls? Lump them in and hope i still have the best hand?

[SupaMonkey]

There is no way you can bet to get info from him without crippling yourself so i would stick it in and hope. If he is a fish then there are probably a large range of hands he would call with so it is probably a long term winning play.

I don't think checking is a good play because the check may induce a bluff, i would want to get my chips in first. I think he hit a pair on the flop and it is just bad luck if he has the 9.

[clayftknight]

seems to me you committed yourself on the turn so with all the nasty river cads that could come you should have pushed on the turn or checked.

More importantly, you decided he was a terrible player after 7 hands and that lack of respect for your opponents is often your downfall.

Assume every player knows what you know cause nothing hurts more than being outdrawn or outplayed by a player you don't respect!

[GlasgowBandit]

I say push it. If he is a calling station as you say then you want him to pay the maximum for his draw ( unless he has j9) . The flop was quite a friendly flop for 2 pair but the turn is worrying, so many draws there that he will call a bet with you have to move in.

I think this is the ebst course of action.

[jezza777]

I dont think you can fold here, it's always difficult to get calling stations on a range of hands. I wouldn't move in here tho and I dont agree that a river check sets up a bluff on this board. There is too much danger and he can really only bet out with ak . Having said that I dont fold if he moves in . It may be passive and I am a big fan of getting my chips in first but he will definately call you if you are beaten and the texture of the board might induce a check.

[NoflopsHomer]

I dont think you can fold here, it's always difficult to get calling stations on a range of hands. I wouldn't move in here tho and I dont agree that a river check sets up a bluff on this board. There is too much danger and he can really only bet out with ak . Having said that I dont fold if he moves in . It may be passive and I am a big fan of getting my chips in first but he will definately call you if you are beaten and the texture of the board might induce a check.

 

[SupaMonkey]

I dont think you can fold here, it's always difficult to get calling stations on a range of hands. I wouldn't move in here tho and I dont agree that a river check sets up a bluff on this board. There is too much danger and he can really only bet out with ak . Having said that I dont fold if he moves in . It may be passive and I am a big fan of getting my chips in first but he will definately call you if you are beaten and the texture of the board might induce a check.

But so far there is approx 27k in the pot so if he bets surely he is going to put you all in (even if he has the nutz). If he checks surely he is only checking a hand you can beat (he may possibly check Q-J but i wouldn't have thought so). The only advantage (that i can see) of check-calling is that you may win more (however, given the texture of the board he is more likely to check a mediocre hand behind you).

I can't disagree with you Jezza but i always feel that i have played the hand worse after calling an opponent's bet and s/he turns over the nutz than when s/he calls my bet after getting lucky on the end. What i am saying is that i don't understand why you wouldn't shove your stack in now if you are going to call them anyway (this would be different if i thought they were likely to bet less than the amount i have in my stack).

[jezza777]

my point is that if he has the 9 for the straight and has you beat then he will be obliged to call an all in. However if you check to him then he may be wary of betting the ignorant end of the straight and check down . He is a calling ststion so he isn't an aggressive player and will not neccessarily bet the non nuts. You shouldn't bet out on the river when the only hands garunteed to call are those which have you beaten. A bet on the river here only gets called by a straight in my opinion.

[SupaMonkey]

Ok, i see now. Thanks.

[ACE2M]

My thinking was similar in that he will only raise with the 9 in his hand. I bet 4k and he set me all in, I think i had to call even tho i considered folding for a moment thinking i must be beat. He had QJos no flush draw.

[ACE2M]

How would you play the QJ in his position? (Had you called the pre flop raise before someone states the obvious)

[jezza777]

If I had called then I reraise you on the flop taking advantage of position and the fact I have top pair which is as good a result as I could hope for. I assume this would trigger an all in from you and I would most likley be forced to pass it cos I am a bit of a rock.

[jezza777]

God he played this hand so strangely how can he set u in without at least the 9?