Launch of the Amateur Poker Association & Tour (APAT)

[bobby1]

By definition isn't a semi pro also a part amateur?

[Jon MW]

By definition isn't a semi pro also a part amateur?

Yes they are, and they are covered by APAT's current definition they are using, this is why I have sympathy with those who would want to enter the tour.

BUT

as has already been mentioned if semi-pro's end up joining they will be more likely to end up dominating the paying positions. This would mean that after the first year most recreational players will see that they haven't got a chance and the tour will only be played by semi-pros.

Whilst there is nothing wrong with the concept of a tour for the middle tier of poker players, this is not what APAT's stated aims are.

It will only be after the first year that the success (or otherwise) of this being a tour for the grassroots rather than the middle tier will be able to be judged but posts from APAT, particularly the last few, have reassured me that they are sticking to their aims of representing recreational, grassroots players and I have every confidence that this issue is being looked in to in an appropriate way and a satisfactory conclusion will be reached.

[dik9]

You are not still working at the Broadway, you work for another gaming organisation. I suggest to you that they would be unhappy to run their comps for free. Casinos make money directly from poker players via cash game charges, juice and then other expenditures, albeit sometimes as a loss leader. It is not realistic to expect venues or the organiser (however a contract is struck) to charge nothing.

I do not work for any gaming organisation @ the moment, in fact I (voluntarily) run a deepstack £30 Freezeout, where dealers, food, refreshments including alcohol are free, long clock and strict rules and starts on an afternoon. These places are all over the country, and they are the real social poker players events, run by people who do give a damn about poker and most of all enjoy it. (no juice here either btw)

[TightEnd]

I do not work for any gaming organisation @ the moment, in fact I (voluntarily) run a deepstack £30 Freezeout, where dealers, food, refreshments including alcohol are free, long clock and strict rules and starts on an afternoon. These places are all over the country, and they are the real social poker players events, run by people who do give a damn about poker and most of all enjoy it. (no juice here either btw)

and of course, all the people involved in apat care passionately about poker too

Good luck with your venture.

[dik9]

Not a venture Tighty, it's my hobby.

APAT yes APL 

[mikee_j]

a couple questions which i have:

- i know that the entry into EPT would not be transferable or exchanged for cash value but for many of us working during the week, what would happen if the winner could not get time of work to play in the EPT tourney?

- Is there any possibilities of a separate tourney on the sunday for all the people who had been knocked out on the previous day, say £20 or £30 freezeout.

- will future seasons of the tour include more events? on a personal note, i would be able to make some of the tourneys but would struggle getting to scotland or europe. i do understand though that finding venues in the uk is difficult but having more events in future seasons on the tour would be a big appeal to keep me playing and renewing my membership as i know i could miss the events further away, but still play enough events closer to home.

just a few thoughts i had.

[RED-DOG]

i would be slightly 'put off' or less interested to make the effort to travel and play in some of these tours if there were high earning semi-pros playing.

 

If you win, you get to play a nice easy EPT event. Not much cance of running into high earning semi-pro's there eh? 

[Jon MW]

i would be slightly 'put off' or less interested to make the effort to travel and play in some of these tours if there were high earning semi-pros playing.

 

If you win, you get to play a nice easy EPT event. Not much cance of running into high earning semi-pro's there eh? 

That's why it's a prize. Paying to play against people who you have very little chance of beating is somewhat less appealing.

[Bongo]

I think you'll find a lot of amateurs are as good as semi pros...

What is a semi pro anyway? Anyone who is profitable? 

[Wardonkey]

Should someone start a tour exclusively for crap poker players?

Credit card bills required for proof of lack of competence...

[Jon MW]

I think you'll find a lot of amateurs are as good as semi pros...

What is a semi pro anyway? Anyone who is profitable? 

I'd say anyone who earns an income from poker, but isn't a full time pro. Therefore a few hundred or a few thousand a year profit would still be amateur, but £15000 (or some other figure) and above would be semi-pro.

[RED-DOG]

I think you'll find a lot of amateurs are as good as semi pros...

What is a semi pro anyway? Anyone who is profitable? 

I'd say anyone who earns an income from poker, but isn't a full time pro. Therefore a few hundred or a few thousand a year profit would still be amateur, but £15000 (or some other figure) and above would be semi-pro.

What if you won £100,000 last year, but lost £90,000 this year?

[Jon MW]

I think you'll find a lot of amateurs are as good as semi pros...

What is a semi pro anyway? Anyone who is profitable? 

I'd say anyone who earns an income from poker, but isn't a full time pro. Therefore a few hundred or a few thousand a year profit would still be amateur, but £15000 (or some other figure) and above would be semi-pro.

What if you won £100,000 last year, but lost £90,000 this year?

If there was a rule on eligibility for the Amateur Tour which was something along the lines of:

If you have won less then £15000 in tournament poker prize money in the 12 months prior to the registration opening for the first event of the tour then you can enter all the tournaments for that season.

It would mean that people could swap from year to year whether they were an amateur or not, but I think this would be the best way of ensuring that you won't get vast numbers of semi-professional players swamping the field and pushing out the grass roots players, whilst at the same time it wouldn't unduly penalise a dedicated amateur who happened to go on a hot streak and win a lot in one year. It would mean that they wouldn't be able to enter the tour for the following season, but this would only be for one year.

I think this would provide a clear definition to work to, while still avoiding some of the pitfalls that other (some looser, some tighter) definitions might fall into.

[Bongo]

What if they've won £15000 in prizes but spent £10000 in buyins?

[Jon MW]

What if they've won £15000 in prizes but spent £10000 in buyins?

I meant profit - the buy in is also freely available. But yes I know I didn't make that clear.