Ched Evans

[The Camel]

Luke McCormick (sp?) is captain of Plymouth - I peronally find that more repellant that Evans, but again he's served his sentence so it's up to Plymouth.

McCormack killed those children by accident.

The accident was caused by his negligence, stupidity and downright disregard for the drink/driving laws.

But it was still an accident when all is said and done.

Ched Evans did not rape this girl by accident.

Huge difference.

So footballers that are 100% criminals have been rehabilitated after serving their sentence when their crime involved killing people.  It is something that everyone convicted of a crime can do if they are sound of mind so why is the Evans incident different Keith?

What difference did it make that he apologised after serving his time for a crime he was 100% guilty of committing?

You seem to have forgiven him for killing people but you are annoyed Ched Evans hasn't said sorry when he is still in the process of appeal?

McCormack killed those children by accident.

It was his fault for sure and he was stupid and negligent but it was an accident.

To my mind there is no way someone who accidentally killed someone (no matter how tragic it is) should be treated as harshly as a rapist.

I would bet a lot of money McCormack will never drink and drive again in his life. if he does, he deserves to go to prison for a very very long time.

You can't rape someone by accident.

If Evans still maintains he is innocent he has not been rehabiltated.

Confronted with the same set of circumstances he is likely to do the same thing again because he doesn't think what he did was wrong. (Well, he wouldn't obv, because he has seen what happens when he does that. But if there was no chance of getting caught he is capable of doing it again).

Being devils advocate is it not possible Evans thought he was engaging In consensual sex at the time?  

I'm almost certain Evans did (and still does) think he was having consensual sex.

Ignorance of the law is not a defence though.

[The Camel]

Camel you normally come across as quite a sensible chap but that last post is bullshit. 

I recall a post you made not so long ago about an incident when you were portrayed as a dirty old man, do you think you should have apologised for that?

If I was Chad Evans hell would freeze over before I showed any sort of remorse if I knew I was innocent.  Lets face it only 3 people actually know the truth. 

Ignorance of the law is not a defence.

He could phrase the statement in such a way that he shows he thought he was innocent but now realises he wasn't.

Just because a woman is drunk with her knickers off and her legs open doesn't mean anyone can ahead and shag her.

[The Camel]

I haven't read any of Evans's statements since he was freed yet.

Has he admitted taking advantage of the girl?

[aaron1867]

If this guy was a Sheff Weds player then Blades fans would be unanimous in their opposition to him playing again.

Anyone who looks on this case in partisan terms is mindboggingly narrow minded.

wow, I'm wondering of that is directed at me or not but I don't really care if he plays for my team ever again but I do strongly believe he should be allowed to go back to work wherever he is offered a job, just like other people that commit crimes do when they have served their time.

As for 'minboggling narrow minded' many people think this is a borderline case. I have expressed points to both side of the discussion and said I think it more likely he is guilty of being a rapist than he isn't. You have steadfastly said he is guilty, what he did was scummy at best and that a man that thinks he is innocent and fighting to clear his name should say sorry ( how will saying sorry change that he is a rapist if the appeal fails anyway), how did you define 'mindbogglingly narrow minded' here?

There are supporters of Sheff Weds and all other football clubs saying things favourable with regard to Evans sentence and if he should be allowed back to work, there will be ones that think he should never be let out and tough shit if he loses his career. There are Sheff Utd fans that think he should never be allowed to play for the club again but some think he should. Are all those that don't have the same opinion as you mindblowingly narrow mined even tho you have only expressed one opinion and are dismissing all the others as being wrong?

At the end of the day he has been convicted of rape & some of what you say is questionable.

You have said that there is no evidence that the victim didn't consent to sex. But I think there is more than enough. She went back to a hotel with someone else, not Ched Evans. She was completely out of it, could she ever consent to sex? Ched Evans left through the fire exit.

It doesn't seem that at any point during that night she was ever had any plans to have sex with Ched.

What is also lol in this thread is that people are still talking about evidence for and against, but none of those was on that jury and are able to know full facts. The jury also has to make a decision with a huge majority, so they must be confident that he did rape her.

As for fans of United or Wednesday, pretty bad taste by Blades fans, but then again they was cheering his name and numerous songs when he got convicted. There aren't some that want him, in fact there are many, which just shows the mentality of the blades fans. As for Owls fans, there are not many at all that disagree with the verdict.

Also Bobby, you say "you aren't bothered if he does come back or not", to me that sounds as if you think he's not guilty. If you did of course think he was guilty, then it surely must be "I don't want him near my club".

He will be rejoining Sheffield United, btw.

[ripple11]

She was completely out of it,

Debatable surely. Have you seen the video of her entering the hotel, walking alone, picking the pizza box off the floor?.....sex happen minutes later.

[vegaslover]

Luke McCormick (sp?) is captain of Plymouth - I peronally find that more repellant that Evans, but again he's served his sentence so it's up to Plymouth.

McCormack killed those children by accident.

The accident was caused by his negligence, stupidity and downright disregard for the drink/driving laws.

But it was still an accident when all is said and done.

Ched Evans did not rape this girl by accident.



I also think McCormack's crime was more abhorrent than the Evans "rape". Although not directly connected it is interesting that was reflected in the longer sentence he received.

Huge difference.

Do you you think everyone who drinks and drives should go to prison?

Because anyone who does that is capable of killing 2 children just the way he did.

Anyone who does 40 in a 30 zone is also capable of killing 2 children.  Do they go to jail as well?  

Someone killing 2 kids driving at 40 mph in 30 zone won't go to prison.

Why is Luke McCormack going to prison?

If it is punishment he should get the same sentence as any drunk driver.

If it is rehabilitation it is pointless. He will never drink drive again and could not be sorrier for his actions.

The only justification is deterrent. Which would be even greater if everyone caught drink/driving goes to nick for a month. Would almost eliminate drink driving at a stroke.

I couldn't disagree with you more on McCormack and as a Father I am surprised you think that.

Any twat that drives 100 odd miles an hour whilst pissed and kills someone deserves life IMO.
No matter how pissed you are, you know how fucking absurd it is to even think about driving

[samurai]

the hotel receptionists evidence was that she was in a bad way. Clayton McDonald said she was sick when he left the hotel.

[aaron1867]

She was completely out of it,

Debatable surely. Have you seen the video of her entering the hotel, walking alone, picking the pizza box off the floor?.....sex happen minutes later.

What would you say her state was?

I have seen the video & I think the jury was given evidence by hotel staff saying she was drunk?

[The Camel]

Luke McCormick (sp?) is captain of Plymouth - I peronally find that more repellant that Evans, but again he's served his sentence so it's up to Plymouth.

McCormack killed those children by accident.

The accident was caused by his negligence, stupidity and downright disregard for the drink/driving laws.

But it was still an accident when all is said and done.

Ched Evans did not rape this girl by accident.



I also think McCormack's crime was more abhorrent than the Evans "rape". Although not directly connected it is interesting that was reflected in the longer sentence he received.

Huge difference.

Do you you think everyone who drinks and drives should go to prison?

Because anyone who does that is capable of killing 2 children just the way he did.

Anyone who does 40 in a 30 zone is also capable of killing 2 children.  Do they go to jail as well?  

Someone killing 2 kids driving at 40 mph in 30 zone won't go to prison.

Why is Luke McCormack going to prison?

If it is punishment he should get the same sentence as any drunk driver.

If it is rehabilitation it is pointless. He will never drink drive again and could not be sorrier for his actions.

The only justification is deterrent. Which would be even greater if everyone caught drink/driving goes to nick for a month. Would almost eliminate drink driving at a stroke.

I couldn't disagree with you more on McCormack and as a Father I am surprised you think that.

Any twat that drives 100 odd miles an hour whilst pissed and kills someone deserves life IMO.
No matter how pissed you are, you know how fucking absurd it is to even think about driving

What is the difference between driving at 100mph pissed and not killing anyone?

Every single person who has ever done that could have been in the same situation Luke McCormack found himself.

In no way am I condoning what he did. He was stupid, arrogant, cavalier and showed no respect for the law.

But it was an accident, he didn't mean to kill those kids. And I'm sure the regret will stay with him for the rest of his life.

[DungBeetle]

Luke McCormick (sp?) is captain of Plymouth - I peronally find that more repellant that Evans, but again he's served his sentence so it's up to Plymouth.

McCormack killed those children by accident.

The accident was caused by his negligence, stupidity and downright disregard for the drink/driving laws.

But it was still an accident when all is said and done.

Ched Evans did not rape this girl by accident.

Huge difference.

So footballers that are 100% criminals have been rehabilitated after serving their sentence when their crime involved killing people.  It is something that everyone convicted of a crime can do if they are sound of mind so why is the Evans incident different Keith?

What difference did it make that he apologised after serving his time for a crime he was 100% guilty of committing?

You seem to have forgiven him for killing people but you are annoyed Ched Evans hasn't said sorry when he is still in the process of appeal?

McCormack killed those children by accident.

It was his fault for sure and he was stupid and negligent but it was an accident.

To my mind there is no way someone who accidentally killed someone (no matter how tragic it is) should be treated as harshly as a rapist.

I would bet a lot of money McCormack will never drink and drive again in his life. if he does, he deserves to go to prison for a very very long time.

You can't rape someone by accident.

If Evans still maintains he is innocent he has not been rehabiltated.

Confronted with the same set of circumstances he is likely to do the same thing again because he doesn't think what he did was wrong. (Well, he wouldn't obv, because he has seen what happens when he does that. But if there was no chance of getting caught he is capable of doing it again).

Being devils advocate is it not possible Evans thought he was engaging In consensual sex at the time?  

I'm almost certain Evans did (and still does) think he was having consensual sex.

Ignorance of the law is not a defence though.

Does this not blow a hole in your argument about him choosing to rape verses McCormick having an accident?  McCormick was certain he was breaking the law when he got behind the wheel.

[ripple11]

She was completely out of it,

Debatable surely. Have you seen the video of her entering the hotel, walking alone, picking the pizza box off the floor?.....sex happen minutes later.

What would you say her state was?

I have seen the video & I think the jury was given evidence by hotel staff saying she was drunk?

 The night porter saw her and heard her. The video shows he saw her walk in, arm in arm and then she turns around and walks out alone to get the pizza, and comes back in and goes straight to the room.

He said she appeared and sounded drunk...ok....but the video doesn't show evidence of her "out of it".

[samurai]

The judge stated that CCTV images showed how intoxicated she was..

[The Camel]

Luke McCormick (sp?) is captain of Plymouth - I peronally find that more repellant that Evans, but again he's served his sentence so it's up to Plymouth.

McCormack killed those children by accident.

The accident was caused by his negligence, stupidity and downright disregard for the drink/driving laws.

But it was still an accident when all is said and done.

Ched Evans did not rape this girl by accident.

Huge difference.

So footballers that are 100% criminals have been rehabilitated after serving their sentence when their crime involved killing people.  It is something that everyone convicted of a crime can do if they are sound of mind so why is the Evans incident different Keith?

What difference did it make that he apologised after serving his time for a crime he was 100% guilty of committing?

You seem to have forgiven him for killing people but you are annoyed Ched Evans hasn't said sorry when he is still in the process of appeal?

McCormack killed those children by accident.

It was his fault for sure and he was stupid and negligent but it was an accident.

To my mind there is no way someone who accidentally killed someone (no matter how tragic it is) should be treated as harshly as a rapist.

I would bet a lot of money McCormack will never drink and drive again in his life. if he does, he deserves to go to prison for a very very long time.

You can't rape someone by accident.

If Evans still maintains he is innocent he has not been rehabiltated.

Confronted with the same set of circumstances he is likely to do the same thing again because he doesn't think what he did was wrong. (Well, he wouldn't obv, because he has seen what happens when he does that. But if there was no chance of getting caught he is capable of doing it again).

Being devils advocate is it not possible Evans thought he was engaging In consensual sex at the time?  

I'm almost certain Evans did (and still does) think he was having consensual sex.

Ignorance of the law is not a defence though.

Does this not blow a hole in your argument about him choosing to rape verses McCormick having an accident?  McCormick was certain he was breaking the law when he got behind the wheel.

Yes, you're right.

I couldn't be further from condoning what McCormack did.

But every single person who drives their car drunk know they are breaking the law. And every single one of them could have killed those 2 kids.

But for the grace of God go they.

I don't think McCormack should be punished any harsher than a drink driver who had consumed exactly the same amount of alcohol and was driving at the same speed.

It's just a sick game of roulette which of them killed 2 children, so they should all be treated the same.

[relaedgc]

Doesn't really matter a whit what any of you think about her level of control. It was deemed in a court of law that she wasn't in a fit state.  Up until the point that a court of law reverses said judgment (if ever) then we accept the ruling of her not being in control. Thus. The sex wasn't consensual and thus he is guilty of rape.

It's black and white. You can debate it up until you're blue in the face. It doesn't change the outcome.

I completely believe in the justice system being an agent of reformation, and not of vengeance. That being said - if you want to clear your name then dedicate yourself to clearing your name and provide the system, the one which found you guilty beyong reasonable doubt, that you're innocent of the crime you were convicted for.

I wouldn't have any issue with him starting his life again if he has done his sentence, recognised that he was wrong to have done as he did and allowed the girl to get on with his life. Whilst the harassment hasn't come from him - it wouldn't take much for him to openly denounce it.

If, as some of you say, he is wrongfully convicted and thus she has cheated him, why should he feel remorse etc. My answer is simply that up until he has cleared his name and proved that there was any form of deception involved, he has no right in my eyes to make her life miserable.

[DungBeetle]

This whole case troubles me to be frank but as Aaron says the jurors were best placed to decide after seeing cross examination. One thing that seems beyond doubt is that the treatment of the victim by friends of the perpetrator has been terrible.