2/5 Line check with straight on flushing turn

[cambridgealex]

Live 2/5. I've written this hand in my diary so don't look there for spoilers!

I open to £15 from early/middle, Nick Hicks raises to £50 next to act, Mark Docherty cold calls from the blinds, I call. Mark and Nick both have £800 back, I cover. Nick is losing lots in the game, Mark about level.

Flop (£150)

check check, Nick bets £80, Mark calls, I call

Turn (£390)

Mark checks, I lead £225, Nick calls, Mark shoves £740.

Nick has 450 behind. It's 515 to call and the pot is 740+225+225+390  = 1580.

Reads/thoughts: Mark is a solid, tight player, always has at least a set here maybe KQ but really doubt it. The only flush combo he has is AQss cos he doesn't cold call 3bets oop hardly ever. Thought he'd raise the flop with that most of the time but perhaps not. I was pretty certain Nick didn't have a flush and had KK/QQ/99 or AA/AQ with the .

Pre is a definitely a fold from me, let's concentrate on the flop and turn. Should we fold the flop? We have 6 clean outs and Nick can have KK so maybe less. How do you like leading the turn? Nick is gonna check back so often, we wanna get value imo. Do we have to call the shove getting 3:1?

[Bully87]

Unfortunately read the diary.

Don't like peeling pre, don't hate it though multiway. However hate it more with a cold caller of the 3b in. Rings alarm bells for me straight away.

You've pretty much answered it yourself. You've made your hand with a dirty out and even if winning now it can be busted OTR by the minimum you expect either villain to have in a set.

As for what I'd do...wouldn't know, not got the nads/roll to sit in a 2/5 game

[zerofive]

Obv fold pre, but you know that anyways. Even though it's hard when you're winning the absolute cake and you're definitely going to make a straight.

Your reads would have to be ridic spot on given very limited info to fold flop imo. We've peeled with the JT, sans flopping jacks full, this is about what we were hoping to land. Might be hard to win a big pot if we hit the 8 rather than the king, but it would seem unusual to fold this flop with this hand.

Leading turn is fine, but I'm probably bet-folding (not as a default line, just in this spot.) Versus the combined ranges, I don't think we're winning as often as we need to be, especially as we need to fade spades and pair ups on the river. Definitely rather call it off here with a set than your hand.

Alternative line is check if we think Nick checks behind, then call a brick river, save us from compounding our pre-flop error. Missing out on a chunk of value versus sets, but possibly widening Mark's river betting range, although you'd be a better judge of that.

[rfgqqabc]

Just open fold pre or fold to 3b?

If this is true: "
Reads/thoughts: Mark is a solid, tight player, always has at least a set here maybe KQ but really doubt it. The only flush combo he has is AQss cos he doesn't cold call 3bets oop hardly ever. Thought he'd raise the flop with that most of the time but perhaps not. I was pretty certain Nick didn't have a flush and had KK/QQ/99 or AA/AQ with the  "

Its one of those horrible spots where he has to have a certain hand, and its hard ti have a certain hand 100% but what else could he have?

[cambridgealex]

bump.

more thoughts on this pls

[DMorgan]

fold pre obv but wp if you fold river imo

[SuuPRlim]

fold pre obv but wp if you fold river imo

we're just not bothering with the turn then Danny boy?

seriously gross spot though, in all honesty this could be somewhat result orientated of me but I'm not alltogether sure betting the turn is the best option, I think bet/calling is not going to be good vs description of your oppo and bet/folding is hard to do in game and with the stacks, so with that in mind, plus your use I'd be extremely tempted to chk it back and either call or value bet the river, depending ofc on what it is.

I would feel a bit like you're very likely to have the best hand OTT, but when you bet you're kind of repping a flush which would be ok if your actual hand wasn't as strong as it is, when you chk back the turn you rep a lot fewer bluffs than you do by betting (the obvious major upside to betting is that your range still contains some bluffs, but considering you've overcalled the flop you don't that much air on the flop if any) you rep more weaker showdown hands that might induce some slightly thiner valuebets on the river, I'd say that would be your best way to extract value in this hand personally.

[sm00035]

Not sure what the effective stacks are but if you are covering with £800 I think I would fold pre.

Would check call flop, as you say you have fewer clean outs, but can't see the point in peeling pre to fold this type of flop.

Definitely check the turn imo. Not sure how good/bad Mark Docherty is but I'm assuming as you've mentioned his name he is decent, I have played with Nick a couple of times and he seemed on the tighter side! Therefore think there are only a couple of hands that you are losing to, but by betting the turn think you are folding all hands bar these. Mark is pretty capped at 99/QQ/KK/AQss (I would take away AQss). Nick the same but I would take away 99.

I think with a check you can easily get value from worse hands on the river. Both players would seem to have a psb or slightly less on turn/river so they can also try to value bet worse hands. Furthermore may lead to Nick actually trying to protect the best hand, with a worse hand. Think also you are in a pretty great spot in that by checking the turn, if it checks through and Mark checks the river (assuming it's a brick), then you know you have the best hand. If on turn Nick jams, Mark jams etc you know you have the worst. If Nick checks and Mark jams the river I think you have to sigh call it off. Lose to 1 hand and beat 3!!

[pleno1]

fold pre.