limp reraising

[byronkincaid]

Seat 5 - SABRESFAN_21 ($24.85 in chips)
Seat 7 - GIBBAN444 ($100.30 in chips)
Seat 8 - GOTCHA_ ($259.10 in chips)
Seat 9 - BKONEJOE ($114.35 in chips)
Seat 1 - BENWILL ($97 in chips)
Seat 4 - TOSSMAN ($229.75 in chips)
GIBBAN444 - Posts small blind $0.50
GOTCHA_ - Posts big blind $1
*** POCKET CARDS ***
Dealt to GOTCHA_ [ ]
BKONEJOE - Calls $1
BENWILL - Calls $1
TOSSMAN - Folds
SABRESFAN_21 - Calls $1
GIBBAN444 - Calls $0.50
GOTCHA_ - Raises $7 to $8
BKONEJOE - Raises $24 to $25
BENWILL - Folds
SABRESFAN_21 - Folds
GIBBAN444 - Folds

fold, call or push?
If you call and the flop comes low rags what is your play?

[fishguts]

if i dont have any info on my opponent i tend to fold at least 80% of the time , and call the rest of the time...i never push in a cash game preflop with Queens and such a deep stack...pushing is absolutely the worst play here in my opininion

[MrsLime]

I agree with fishguts.

Put it like this: if BKONEJOE has KK or AA, you have made the correct play by folding.  If BKONEJOE doesn't have KK or AA, then he is a fish.  A win/win situation for you, surely.

[GlasgowBandit]

I'm not so sure he has Aces or Kings here, in a cash game I am getting my chips in here there is no way I am laying down pocket queens in this situation. 

[boldie]

I'm not so sure he has Aces or Kings here, in a cash game I am getting my chips in here there is no way I am laying down pocket queens in this situation. 

I agree with bandit (Lord help me). With pocket Queens I might very well be willing to stick in 100$ (depending on my opponents betting history at the table) and since that is all oppo has left I would be very tempted to push here.

If you flatcall and the flop comes low rags you see what oppo does as he is first to act...but I can already guarantee you he'll be pushin.

[SupaMonkey]

I'm not so sure he has Aces or Kings here, in a cash game I am getting my chips in here there is no way I am laying down pocket queens in this situation. 

I agree with bandit (Lord help me). With pocket Queens I might very well be willing to stick in 100$ (depending on my opponents betting history at the table) and since that is all oppo has left I would be very tempted to push here.

If you flatcall and the flop comes low rags you see what oppo does as he is first to act...but I can already guarantee you he'll be pushin.

Of course, but if you call preflop and an ace falls then you can be fairly sure you're beat 99% of the time. I wouldn't push here if i did decide to play the hand.

[boldie]

I'm not so sure he has Aces or Kings here, in a cash game I am getting my chips in here there is no way I am laying down pocket queens in this situation. 

I agree with bandit (Lord help me). With pocket Queens I might very well be willing to stick in 100$ (depending on my opponents betting history at the table) and since that is all oppo has left I would be very tempted to push here.

If you flatcall and the flop comes low rags you see what oppo does as he is first to act...but I can already guarantee you he'll be pushin.

Of course, but if you call preflop and an ace falls then you can be fairly sure you're beat 99% of the time.

yeah but that's the eternal problem with pocket queens...

[MrsLime]

I agree with bandit (Lord help me). With pocket Queens I might very well be willing to stick in 100$ (depending on my opponents betting history at the table) and since that is all oppo has left I would be very tempted to push here.

I think it is a bit of a donkey play to bet 115 BB preflop with QQ.  Sensible opponents will be folding JJ, AK, etc, to this sort of bet.  The majority of the time you get called, you will be dog.

Of course, but if you call preflop and an ace falls then you can be fairly sure you're beat 99% of the time.

You mean, because if an Ace comes then you are (still) losing to KK and AA?

[boldie]

I agree with bandit (Lord help me). With pocket Queens I might very well be willing to stick in 100$ (depending on my opponents betting history at the table) and since that is all oppo has left I would be very tempted to push here.

I think it is a bit of a donkey play to bet 115 BB preflop with QQ.  Sensible opponents will be folding JJ, AK, etc, to this sort of bet.  The majority of the time you get called, you will be dog.

Of course, but if you call preflop and an ace falls then you can be fairly sure you're beat 99% of the time.

You mean, because if an Ace comes then you are (still) losing to KK and AA?

then what do you do? fold pocket queens to a pre flop check raise?

I reraise the re-raiser..I am fine with him folding if he has JJ AK etc. If he has me beat then that's fine to...but he ain't getting a free shot if he's overplaying AK.

[SupaMonkey]

Of course, but if you call preflop and an ace falls then you can be fairly sure you're beat 99% of the time.

You mean, because if an Ace comes then you are (still) losing to KK and AA?

To be honest i would probably dump this hand unless i had seen the guy pull this move often. What i was trying to point out to boldie was that if the guy puts 1/5th of his stack in preflop, he is likely to put a good deal more in on the flop. Assuming that your oppo's hand range is AA, KK and AK then by calling you escape with your stack the times when an overcard hits on the flop. What i'm trying to say is that this guy is putting his money in anyway, there is nothing to be gained by pushing preflop.

[boldie]

Of course, but if you call preflop and an ace falls then you can be fairly sure you're beat 99% of the time.

You mean, because if an Ace comes then you are (still) losing to KK and AA?

To be honest i would probably dump this hand unless i had seen the guy pull this move often. What i was trying to point out to boldie was that if the guy puts 1/5th of his stack in preflop, he is likely to put a good deal more in on the flop. Assuming that your oppo's hand range is AA, KK and AK then by calling you escape with your stack the times when an overcard hits on the flop. What i'm trying to say is that this guy is putting his money in anyway, there is nothing to be gained by pushing preflop.

I got your point my friend..however..why give the AK guy a chance to hit?

[Rookie (Rodney)]

He never said he would. He did say however, he would dump this hand, based on what sort of player he is, more often than not.

Why give the AA/KK guy all your money in one hand with a preflop 115 bb push in a cash game?

[Trix]

Had pretty much this exact same hand yesterday except i raised and was re-raised by a guy on the button. I re-raised again and he called. I pushed on a flop of 883 (i was pushing any flop) and got called by his TT.

So they not always gonna fold their JJ, AK etc.

Supa, Mrs Lime, you guys probably think I overplayed my QQ here?

[SupaMonkey]

Had pretty much this exact same hand yesterday except i raised and was re-raised by a guy on the button. I re-raised again and he called. I pushed on a flop of 883 (i was pushing any flop) and got called by his TT.

So they not always gonna fold their JJ, AK etc.

Supa, Mrs Lime, you guys probably think I overplayed my QQ here?

On the button makes a big difference. The only problem with your play here imo is that you have told the guy you have a big pair, thankfully he was too stupid to listen.

[boldie]

Had pretty much this exact same hand yesterday except i raised and was re-raised by a guy on the button. I re-raised again and he called. I pushed on a flop of 883 (i was pushing any flop) and got called by his TT.

So they not always gonna fold their JJ, AK etc.

Supa, Mrs Lime, you guys probably think I overplayed my QQ here?

On the button makes a big difference. The only problem with your play here imo is that you have told the guy you have a big pair, thankfully he was too stupid to listen.

you make a fair point my friend... this thread has turned into a "Fold queens pre-flop" thread and lord knows I have seen enough of these. I have only folded them pre flop once and would not be inclined to fold them here.
For one very simple reason...I imagine I'm AA/KK guy . only with KK would I reraise. and then only to push A rag out.

If I have Aces I will not reraise by sucha  large amount.

I therefore take the guy for KK or AK. and that's a 50-50 shot I'll take