blonde poker forum

Any dealers / players please help to solve this argument.

During a live cash game in a casino ..
 pre flop player 1 goes all in for £67  ...
Player 2 raises to £140
Folds round to player 6 who doesn't realise player 2 has also gone all in and he throws a £25 chip in to call player 1's bet with out announcing anything .
Dealer now announces that total bet is £140 ... player 6 says that he didn't realise that someone had retained and he only intended to call the £67 all in .

What is the correct rule of action for player 6 and does he have any options ???

Thanks in advance .

He either calls the £140 or forfeits the £25 and folds his hand.

This.

Yeah this for sure

Yerp, and gets a little reminder about watching the action etc

If he threw a £100 chip in would he be bound to leave it in or £67 of it?

Yes, pay more attention in future.

Leave it in, if natural justice is to be served.

It counts as a call, & the bet was £140, so he can forfeit the £100 or put another £40 in.

jesus let the man take his £25 back, it's very obviously not an angle (unless it's a very advanced one where he's  going to wait until after the hand then if he wins the £140 say nothing and if he loses claim he didn't notice)

Obv tell him not to go throwing chips in without knowing what the bet is, cos that's a little dumb but mistakes happen.

And then he does it the next time, & expects his money back again, "I got it back last time" will be his words.

We have to be accountable Dave. Only takes one hard lesson for it to sink in. It's Live, not Online, In Live Poker you are supposed to pay attention.

Players sat there not paying attention cause half of these disputes & rulings. The remedy is very simple.

When I was a lad, I did a really dumb thing one day, & my dad gave me the strap. I never made that mistake again.

yeah agree with Tikay here.

Others realise this is an easy spot to angle and it will only cost them £1 to do it then the ruling has to be as stated.

What happens if player flicks in the chip to signify call and then the others insta table their hand?

Just like stopped clock, Tikay is right twice a day.

And this is one of his two for Tuesday.

I'm with Dave on this one. Let him have his £25 back.

If you're not going to let him then he should be held for the full £140.

I've never seen why in these situations we should artificially bloat the pot with a wayward £25.

Just as easy to angle, throw a £1 in, see if anyone turns thier hands over and if they don't plead ignorance and say goodbye to your £1...

Don't see any logic to this leave the chip in rule, if it's the letter of the law then he calls the whole £140, if it looks like a genuine mistake then give his £25 back and warn him next time he does this he will have to call the whole lot, cant say fairer imo.

But that is exactly why he should NOT get it back.

And why?

Because next time it happens, he'll say "but last time they let me have it back". He will. And so it continues, this wilful disregard of the rules & etiquette.

I'm all for giving recreational players the benefit of the doubt, but sometimes a spot of tough love is best for us.

PS - In last week's Open Golf, a chap was penalised 2 strokes because he teed off two inches ahead of the designated (& imaginary) line between the tee markers. The hole was over 400 yards long, & he was two inches too far advanced, so it did not make a dot of difference. Sounds daft on the face of it. But its not. Two inches this week, a foot next week, & so it goes on. It is so much easier when we follow the rules.

I must say I hate this new fad of throwing one chip in to call.

If you want to call, put the bloody chips in to call.

Once again, such sloppiness lead to disarray, disharmony & argument. It will inevitably cause rucks, nobody in their right mind could possibly argue otherwise.  

In Vegas, for ALL-IN situations, they use an "ALL-IN" button, which I think is a great idea, & cuts out a lot of the petty rucks.

The point is though that if throwing the £25 in is equivalent to saying call then there is no situation that should result in just the £25 staying in. If he had verbally said "call" followed by "i didn't see the reraise" you're gonna hold him to the full amount.

In that sense it's much better to flick a chip in if you're not going to allow genuine errors to be rectified.

this so much

Rarely play live any more but i noticed this in Luton last weekend. A couple of guys kept chucking one chip in without saying anything and this seemed to magically mean they were calling for a whole lot more.

Also when at one point i announced all in and the dealer threw a little "all in" button in front of me, the opponent pondered for a while and so the dealer asked me to stick my big chips over the line. Seemed to defeat the point of the special button...

If it's tough love then he calls the whole £140 surely?
If he'd thrown a £100 chip in does the £100 stay in? If he's thrown a £5 chip in does he need to put some more in to teach him a lesson?

Seems to me the main thing he'll be thinking after this hand is thank god I threw a £25 in and didn't put the 60-odd in like I should have done...

He'd learn to pay attention in future if he had to.

Players expect the cardroom to play by the rules, & honour their obligations. Why do you think that's a one way street, Dave, & players can do as they like without fear of being held accountable?

If we don't pay attention at the Table, we should not start hollering, grizzling & blaming others. We messed up, now we gotta pay the bill. We wont do it again.

The "main thing" he SHOULD be thinking afterwards is "what a clot I am, I'll pay attention in future".

Why is every mistake we make someone else's fault?

I'm not disputing that he should pay attention, I'm disputing why he should be let off the rest of the call... That £25 chip was signalling a call of the first all-in, so how come he gets let off that!

I think it should be tough love pay attention is your own fault, or ok you made a mistake don't do it again take your money back.

Anything else makes no sense to me, he makes the mistake and basically sets his own punishment.

I was also saying that this solution leaves it very open to angle - shooting.

Just imo ofc :-)

I'm not saying he should or should not be let off the rest of the call. That's not the point I am making at all.

That's the point I'm making!

Please explain tikay why the £25 should stay in. Why that amount? Just because he chose that chip? What if it was only a £5 chip?

You argue that people throwing in a chip to call is bad yet it looks like a great deal to me. Rather than saying call and being held to the full amount you throw a chip in and be let off the rest.

If anything the player here should learn to only throw a £1 chip in next time. Will save him £24.