blonde poker forum

Last 9 of a (poorly structured) live MTT.   Average stack is 4,500, I have 7k, blinds are 500/1000 (told you!), I am in small blind.  I have just moved tables, this is hand number 2 at the final, I folded to a raise when in BB, seat 5 did not play hand 1. 

Play has been 'all in or fold' for at least 15 minutes.  Top 3 get paid.

Folded to seat 5 (7k) who calls, seat 6 and 7 fold:

 Me: Qh Qs

I raise to 3,500 total, leaving me 3.5k.  I dont mind winning the 2k there and then, but will happily call any raises as BB and seat 5 have equal chips to me.   BB fold and seat 5 throws in 3k without thinking about folding or putting me all in.

Flop:  5c 5d 8h

Seat 5 checks

I go all in for the remainder and was called by a sheepish looking seat 5 who showed  Aspades 5h and I lose.

I left the event feeling I had done nothing wrong and that the guy who knew nothing about me made a poor call and hit after calling off 50% of his chips with ace rag.    3 days later I am looking at myself to see what I did wrong and whether I should have gone all in rather than raising so little (though this was enough to commit over 75% of the table).

Any comments? 

With such high blinds, by raising half of your stack, you are telling the table that you will be calling any raise all in anyway, so i would bet allin in that scenario as it means the exact same.

You was a little unlucky for sure, however with such small stacks and huge blinds, his A5 could be ahead of many possible hands you are raising with. A5 in his hand here is probably equivalent to AQ early on. Right or wrong, any ace at this stage is often perceived as the best starting hand and often is.

I would also have pushed all in preflop.

Given the stack to blind ration in the game this shows a huge flaw in your thinking, if you get QQ here you should be devestated if you just pick up the 2k. You have the 3rd best hand in the deck in a crapshoot. I would be trying to get as much money into the pot as possible.

You played the hand perfect.

a badly disguised bad beat... ;goodvevil;

I cant see the disguise

when you play tournaments structured like this you really have to be in push/fold mode from about an hour in! i'd of pushed no question. i mean if someone called that raise and an ace or king hit the flop. you're left with 3.5 x BB and have played yourself out of the tournament really.

Yep. You're right. it was a poor play on the other players behalf and you were unlucky to lose. But, there was no point not going all in pre flop. Surely he would have folded the Ace Five then.

So you push just incase someone hits a 3 out?

Yes, it may seem ridiculous to say that, but at this stage in the tournament you can't afford to let any bad players get lucky on you. You also push because the blinds are big and you should be happy to win those even if everyone folds.

Reading your earlier posts i thought i had found an ally in the "get value with big hands" camp rather than the "push all in now incase someone outdraws me" camp!

Back to the lonely camp for me!

I always want bad players to be trying to get lucky on me, if they stopped doing that i would have to get a job!

Cant you beat the good players?                                 

 ;goodvevil;

I never play any!

You've never played in the poker capital of london - Woolwich!!!!! ;D

Yes you're right, and i do agree with you and in the long run you will obviously make a lot more money than you'd lose against Ace Five. I Just wouldnt want to take any risks on the final table when you only have around 7k left, because any Ace or King on the flop and you're hand may well be destroyed.

If you had 12,000 plus it was just a raise of course, but by going all in with 7,000 you would buy the 1,500 and therefore have a couple more rounds.

Idont think that there is really a "correct play" here, its more down to individual interpretation.

Couple more rounds for what? To find a big hand? Like....hmmm...QQ, lol.

Gotta agree with JD here, you need to understand the odds of you being dealt something else you consider playable in the time you have.

I agree with JD on maximising here too, the table or your opponents can dictate the best method. I advocate either the all-in or the limp here, its the raise i dont like. The raise tells your opponent you will be calling all in whatever anyway, so it in fact says the same story as going all-in, yet they think you might have a hand and be trying to get people in with you to build the pot.

Betting half your stack gives more info on your hand than an all in does, all-ins generally look very weaker at this stage and disguise your hand a little.

Couple more rounds and you've soon gotta put your chips on the line with A9 suited or J8, at the very best. Winning chips with a hand is much easier and much more likely the better it is.

I think the implied odds here may encourage weaker hands to call. i.e. they have position on you and they think they are getting 7000 if they hit the flop and losing 3500 if they miss yet unless they have a-k they are making a mistake by calling. Surely this is what you want.

I think this is about the weakest hand (in this situation) i would pull this manoeuvre with. Usually i would be all in or fold.

With a short stack in for half his stack in EP, i think one of the last things people are thinking about is implied odds.

If a caller puts 3500 in to win 7000 possibly or can fold if he misses, this is neutral EV. Neutral EV isn't a very good proposition here, calling in with rags for "implied odds" doesn't make any sense here for me. You will miss the flop 2/3 times in poker so if you are calling 3500 3 times, 2 times you will miss and lose 7000, one time you will win and win 7000. If i said give me £1.00 and flip a coin, if it comes down heads i will give you £1.00 back and if it comes tails i will give you £1.00 back, would you ever bother playing with me?

If someone has AK here and calls, do you think they would fold to an all in off the short stack? they are getting 3/1 on their money and they might even be ahead anyway. Plus AK needs to see all 5 cards to maximise its strength, so AK will want to see the river.

Position is also negated here completely against the short stack, we have position in poker to see what our opponents do before us, if we know what our opponent is going to do here (95% of short stacks at least will push in here, the other 5% are just plain crazy betting half their stack to fold on the flop), then position is nothing.

Sorry, i should have said 7000 plus the blinds. 7000 plus the blinds gives him a net profit of 500 chips. You right though, people aren't thinking about implied odds but they will think 'if i call and hit i get the rest of his chips as well'.

Do you think the A-5 would have called if he went all in, that was really my point. I think a wider range of hands call this raise than an all in.

Its all situational. In this structure with these stacks and blinds, A5h is massive, top pair, 2 pair, nut flush and wheel all possible, it's a bigger hand than it looks. If someone would call my raise for half my stack, then i expect them to call the other half too. Main point is to make a decision and know WHY you are doing it. With QQ here make the decision, do i want to gamble a bit, by limping and possibly increasing my stack to an amount whereby i can win this, or do i want to just take the blinds and within 5 or 10 minutes be back in the shit again, desperately needing another hand.

This is why i hate the bet personally in this situ, im gambling and limping or i'm pushing in to get a call off AK AQ JJ TT etc. The middle ground (the half stack bet) leaves you in no mans land and signifies far more strength than you want to. All-ins with high blinds and short stacks are the norm and often portray much weaker holdings.