blonde poker forum

I am sure most of you have seen the news today and the story of the guy using his parents credit cards to run up massive gambling debts.

I have a lot of sympathy for the guy.

Whenever I speak to someone about online gambling that doesn't actually gamble themselves, they say the usual  " Watch out you will run up debts, etc, etc, etc, ". 

From my understanding you can only deposit the amount up to what is on the card concerned.  Surely it is impossible to be able to deposit more than what is on the card.   Am I correct here? .  It is impossible to borrow large amounts of money from a regular bank card for the purpose to deposit onto an online site. I always thought pokersites had measures in place to prevent too large a deposit being placed.

Yes, but nothing stopping you getting hold of say 20 credit cards and maxing them out.

Credit Card companies need to take some blame here - its soooooooooooo easy to obtain credit cards (with a £5000 limit)

The measures in place to control large deposits are only there originally. When you first start pokerstars, ure daily deposit limit is $600 with a weekly limit fo around $1500 i think. This was no good for the stake i play, i needed to have more money in my account to begin with. I emailed stars support asking if i could have my limits increased  not giving any figures. I recieved a response around 10 mins later saying no problem my new deopist limits were:

daily - $10k
weekly - $20k
Monthly - $50k

Not much restricition there

They gave you those limits on a credit card?  Surely you used a debit card?

Everyone I know who has increased cc limits has had to fill in extra paperwork on stars

ok, good point.   

I play at the scum limits.  We look up at the big players like H@££INGGOL and think to ourselves  " One day, I will be a contender".  :D.    That is more like dream land anyway the regularity at which he wins .

i use neteller, sorry, dont use credit cards, even when i was a student and broke id rather go without than run up credit card debt

these people should stop being such degenerate fish and start taking responsibility for there own actions instead of blaming every financial institution availible.

I Agree, but also disagree - for these reasons :

Yes it is upto the individual to be responsible when it comes to credit cards, BUT credit card companies should NOT make it so easy. You can obtain a credit card, and as long as you keep up the minimum payments, other credit card companies are more than happy to give you "another" card irrespective of how much credit you already have on other cards!

The responsibility of credit card companies should work the same way as banks lending mortgages, in which your current borrowings are taken into account as you can only borrow say 3x Income.

This is where credit card companies , in my opinion, fail. They are not interested in the fact that you already have say 5 credit cards with £5k on each of them, they are only concerned that you are making the "minimum" payments ontime. Now, would a credit card company give you a credit card with say a £100k limit?? Of course not!! But they dont mind giving you a credit card of say £5k even though you may already have £95k on other cards.

This is what I mean by Credit Card companies need to take some responsibility over their lending and subsequently people getting into Debt.

Yet another example of where the "lenders" should take more responsibility is this :

You have maxed out your 5 credit cards to the tune of say £15k and are struggling to meet the monthly payments. You then apply for an unsecured loan to "consolidate" all your debts leaving you with a lower monthly payment - makes sense yes?  NO!!!!

Because what that lender has effectively done is let you DOUBLE the credit available to you. By this I mean even if you pay off those credit cards with the £15k, you then have 5 credit cards with £15k clear credit!!

This HAS to be wrong, and the lenders should take responsibility to ensure that those credit cards are closed, or at least, the combined limits of the cards are decreased dramatically. Will they ever do this?? OF COURSE NOT!! Why?? COS THEY DONT CARE!! All they care about is being able to charge you extortionate rates of interest.

That and once the credit card balances are cleared, some of them automatically increase the amount of credit available to you.

The financial industry needs a hellava lot more regulating.

Indeed they do Tank, indeed they do!

It's in their interest for you to just pay off minimum amount.
They make much more interest on your account that way.

In my view it's all about personal responsibility.  Just because you have a credit card with a £5k limit doesn't mean that you have to run up £5k of debt.

As an aside to Sark's original post, I get the impression that the guy who lost £150k in an hour (based on this morning's Glasgow Herald, front page) was playing online casino games rather than poker.  And supposedly he was up £90k after the first half-hour!!

Yep, that's the story TenJack.  I didn't actually get to read the story unfortunately. I just saw it on the news.  I may go onto the site later and read it.

I do feel abit sorry for the guy. I don't know about others, but if I dabble on Party at the blackjack tables it is easy for me to get carried away.  I start off at the $1 chips and before I know it, I have switched to the $10 or $20 chips.  Gambling is a lot of fun unfortunately.  That's why I am only a poker player. No other types of gambling.  At least when I lose, I can put it down to bad play luck.

Why do you think mortgage companies dont treat you like credit card companies do???

SIMPLE - cos they wouldnt make money from you

CREDIT CARD companies HAVE to take some responsibility - they cant have their cake and eat it, they KNOW people will NEVER be able to pay them back, but with the interest rates they charge, they just dont care, pure and simple

I remember a story when a part time gardener managed to obtain £30k on CC's, he just lied about his income and they NEVER check.
This is a problem, with mortgages you have to prove your income.

Credit cards in MHO need to be restrict more by government regulation - okay we dont want to take away people freedom but credit card debt has the potential to have major economic effects for the country as a whole.

What an interesting thread. It reflects, beautifully in my opinion, the way society has changed.

In my day (OK, OK) we accepted rersponsibility for our own actions - of course, because that's the way life was. (and still should be).

But things have changed, very much for the worse. These days it's accepted that when one does something wrong, someone or something else can be blamed.

We get in debt? It's the Credit Card companies to blame.

One guy got a huge loan from his Bank to start a business, the business failed, he sued the Bank for loaning him the money, without which he would not have lost anything!

People commit crimes, & blame their parents for bringing them up wrong.

Sex offenders regularly say "it's because I was abused as a child".

In America, obese folks sued McDonalds for "making them fat".

Smokers sued the ciggie companies for making them ill.

Coming next - someone suing an Online Poke site because they lost.

And so on & so forth.

It's all nonsense, of course. We are all responsible for our own actions. I have gone down plenty of wrong roads in my time, but I've never blamed anyone except myself. It's actually quite character building to face up to one's failings & weaknnesses & then move on, usually sadder, poorer & wiser, but very much better for it.

Blame the Credit Card companies? Don't try that one on me, please.

 :goodpost:       14700 till the next one?

Here Here! :goodpost: :goodpost:

 rotflmfao rotflmfao rotflmfao

as an aside, mortgage companies are in on the act too...via self certification mortgages you can borrow up to 5x a single income just by signing a form saying you have an income of £x.


In practice they do not check and vast swathes of the UK financial services industry relies on income that is not sustainable should times turn to recession.


As a more global and wider ranging aside, last month US citizens borrowed a further $50bn against the value of their homes...at a time when inflation is on the uptick and interest rates are going to have to accelerate, this is madness.

My assets are in cash and unmortgaged property...stay away from shares, bonds and the like until after the next downturn in 2007-08.

In my opinion!

Tighty's Post reminds me of the Clowes affair.

When interest rates were, say, 5%, Mr Clowes was offering Depositors 10%. Thousands upon thousands of gulllible folk deposited their life savings with him, & lost the lot. I say "gullible" because it's a fact of life - nature won't allow water to run uphill, & nobody, not nobody, nowhere, ever, can offer interest rate returns above the bank Rate, it's not do-able.

Obviously, it all went tits up, they all lost their money, & he went to prison, quite right too. The Depositors who lost their money then bellyached that the Government should compensate them! It never crossed their minds that greed was their downfall, & it was their own fault entirely.

Most of my "assets" are in shares, & it looks like I have missed the selling "window" that the recent Bull Market afforded me. Shares are down 10% in a month or so, & I fear it will be a while before they return to such heady levels.

A month back, I thought about selling the lot, but, as ever, greed got the better of me - "If I wait another month, they may appreciate another 5%...."

Perhaps I should sue somebody......

I feel I should say something on this subject as I was declared bankrupt a little over 2 years ago.

When I accumulated my debt I knew I found it very easy to get credit cards and loans, as did my wife, I was earning close to £80K at the time and we had no money worries.

As life often does it presents opportunities, I happened to take one which happend to be a bad decision. As a direct result, I no longer was earning the salary i had grown accustomed to, we should have made some life style changes, We didn't, and hence the debt was now growing at an incredible rate.

We had to accept that we were responsible for the money we could not afford to spend, I will aggree however that even when I was earning a diminished salary, I found it extremely easy to continue to gain credit in the form of loans and cards from no end of lenders, mail would pour through the letterbox offering 0% for 6 months, 4.2% loans and £5k instant credit on a new credit card with no credit check.

My thoughts at the time were simply buy now, pay the minimum and clear the balance at a later date, well as you can imagine this was a path to financial doom.

Whilst I do believe that we are ultimately responsible for our own actions, practical and responsible lending must take place to help control the problem.

I will point out that none of the debt I had could be attributed to the gaming industry, online or off.

Just my opinion

Imo, that's drivel, some of the best times to be investing in stocks and shares is when the market is volatile, as you can make the most money riding trough to peeks.

GREAT Post by Newmanseye showing the other side of the coin. Stunningly honest, too. It's got me thinking now.

I thikn Tighty has a reasonable knowledge of the financial markets - that's how he made his (very successful) career all his life. The Market has a long way to fall yet, only a naive individual would invest in Footsie Shares right now.

Investing during volatility is not a good time to invest in shares, but it is - for some - in volatility indexes. Ask LTCM, who managed to fritter away $45 billion - BILLION - by investing in volatility during volatile markets. To invest in Shares, wait till the Market bottoms - some time away yet.

good post

I never said credit card companies were to blame, of course if you get in debt, it is entirely your own fault.

What I was saying, is that Credit Card companies (and the like) make it all TOO EASY to get yourself in this situation in the first place.

I honestly believe that if they made it harder to obtain credit (or at least made proper checks) then almost HALF of the people who are in overwhelming debt, just wouldnt be there.

Agree?

;iagree;

Oh and by the way,,, I have No credit cards, and no loans or HP.

If I cant afford something, I just dont buy it - pure and simple.

(and yes, it wasnt always like that, but life is much less stressfull now)

Entirely.

PS - Unlucky last night in the Grosvenor Super-Sat Paul - you were going like a train - I fancy it must have been a chip-leader - v chip leader confrontation, as you disappeared suddenly. Jim Reid won it - delighted for him. K-5 rules.......

Yeah, thanks for that TK, I just felt like "it was my tournament and MY seat"

Everything I did was working, my hands were standing up, i was winning 50 50's , my bluffs were getting through.

Then when the blinds reached 400 800 I went horribly card dead for two levels, then at 800 1600 and with 10 BB i was all in UTG with 10 10, only to run into the SB with QQ.

TOP POST :respect: ;iagree; my sentiments exactly

I wasn't aware the FTSE was the only share available.. and yes alot of people fail and lose money, but those that do are often made more obvious by stories in papers, the FT, Economist etc. but many people also make large amounts at the same time. Otherwise it wouldn't be the stock market...for a company to have lost $45 billion on the stock market, the same amount must have gone to owners of stocks. Obviously the more intelligent ones.

As you well know, the Footsie is not the only index of shares in which one can invest, but it stands as a yarsdstick for the share market as a whole. The rest of the Market shadows it without fail. In fact, contrary to what you suggest, the Footsie is not a share at all - it's a basket of shares, 100 in total, of the largest by Market Capitalisation. ""to invest in Footsie shares" is City-speak for "invest in shares".

The $45 billion was not in stocks - not a cent of it. They were investing in "convergence", it was in volatility derivatives, on "margin", a facility which, in practical terms, is not accessible to Joe Public.

I am going to stick my tuppence worth in also.

When I got to the age that Iw as able to obtain credit, I found it very easy. I was a skint student and when in the Student Union there where peope there from copanies such as Provident, MBNA, Capital One etc only too happy to give me a credit facility.

It was also easy enough to walk into many of the high street stores and obtain HP for things such as computers of home entertainment equipment.

At the time I never thought much of it I was quite happy to take out credit, I was only spending what I could afford to pay back online gambling was something I never took part in at this point in my life. 

However one of the cards was stolen and although I had been convinced by the people offering the cards that I should take up payment protection and others uch add-ons I was expected to pay back almost 3,000 pound of credit despite the fact that it took almost 72 hrs for the credit card company involved to bar the card when the theft was reported.  As time passed it became clear they would not relent and expected me to pay the balance, moreover they where applying overdraft charges and late payment charges to teh card and the debt of almost 3k had spiralled to 5k within 9 months.

I made the decision at that point that I  was going to sun up as much credita s possible and screw every financial institution willing to give me credit. daft I know but at the time it sounded like a good idea.

So I proceeded to run up around 19k in debt on cards and HP, and loans bearing in mind I am still a student at this point and was finding it as easy as ever to get credit.

Some of the comapnies are still chasing me for the debts through a number of debt collectors but they ain't getting nothing off me!

These days I take more accountability for anything I do, however I think there has to be a system in place to limit the ammount of credit any one person can obtain, I also think there has to be greater restrictions imposed on irresponsible lenders by the FSA.

Glasgow, they wont do anything except chase you.

Their only option is to file for bankruptcy, but they wont do that, cos they then know they will get nothing.

Before you get too far in life and obtain too many assets, I would seriously consider filing for bankruptcy yourself. With the current laws, I believe you will be debt free in about 18 months.

Its a simple procedure of completing a form and paying a fee of £250 to the court.

It has been very interesting reading the posts in this thread.  I must admit, I am a bit naive when it comes to finance and all that kind of stuff.  I have always had low paying jobs until recently before I  went back to Uni.  So I have always stayed well away from loan companies, etc because I knew I wouldn't have been able to pay them back.

Cheers for the replies. I have learnt a lot.

Here is another question. If it is a bit cheeky, then I apologize in advance.   Because poker isn't considered a fixed income.  How do professional players go about getting bank loans, etc?  Will the banks not ask for proof of income when someone is depositing X amount of money each week.

Sark, i am no expert, but this would be my take on it.

Poker is not considered a form of income. Most professional poker players have "other" sources of Income, which is what I assume they record as Income ?!?

But like i siad, this is just my take on the subject

I should reply to a view that part of one of my previous posts was "drivel"

Well it might not be correct, but I don't think its drivel. You are of course perfectly entitled to disagree...two views make a market and all that!

I have been involved in finance, economics and the stockmarket for 21 years firstly academically through degree and post graduate work (very sadly I'm actually a Doctor in Economics) and later through my career which involved me managing both traditional mutual funds, pension funds and latterly hedge funds until it finally burnt me out towards the end of last year...I lived and breathed it as I do most things that interest me or I am passionate about, but then life moved on. I'll be back at it one day in the not too distant future I'm sure.

Anyway...why would I not be investing in shares at the moment?

Put simply. Inflation. Its rising again. We all know about Oil prices and commodity prices and how this has fed through to higher energy costs, fuel costs and has began to cramp the average consumer's disposable income.

For several years these rising costs were felt by companies in reduced profit margins but were not felt at a "countrywide" level in the official statistics because the Western World had spare capacity and companies had no pricing power...in effect they were unable to pass these higher costs onto consumers.

Now spare capacity is dramatically reduced and the consumer is beginning to feel the bite of the extra costs...eventually the same consumer will ask for higher wages to compensate.

The effect of higher inflation and higher wages will be to drive up interest rates. This in turn will decrease economic growth and whilst it might not actually cause a recession, the days of boom and bust being behind us it seems, it will cause a period of adjustment in company earnings and the valaution that the market is prepared to put on those earnings.

After all, why was there a bull market throughout the 1990s? Disinflation thats why..increasing the predictability of earnings and the valaution attached to them. Even then this bull market temporarily ended with the misallocation of resources that led to the stockmarket technology boom of 1999-2000 and a 3 year bear market that followed due to both the effects of that misallocation and the severe political risk carried in market valautions by the threat of Al Qaeda etc.

Lets take a moment to consider why Oil and Commodity prices are rising and potentially casuing us these problems. The simple answer lies in one word. China. China is as we all know moving towards being the next economic superpower. Its demands for energy and commodities are immense. Supply shortages in the metals for example mean that there is a classic supply and demand imbalance. For example Shanghai has sunk half an inch in the last three years because of the volume of building in the city...and global usage of steel, copper and aluminium has soared.

At last this is now impacting us.

Onto the point about volatility. Josh is quite correct to say that in the majority of instances periods of stockmarket weakness are merely buying opportunities within a long term trend. However this could well be an important inflection point where rising inflation meets a severely overindebted Western consumer. Whilst such inflation would erode the real value of this debt, it only works if the person holding the debt has a job or means to service that debt. Early signs of rising unemployment are not therefore that encouraging.

My personal opinion remains that the likelihood of meaningful upward progress in Western stockmarkets on say a three year view is low. Thats not to say that there won't be bouts of strength and there won't be another bull market thereafter.

I myself exited the stockmarket with my holdings sold in February.

Ok, ty M3boy. 

So many points to this thread have come up, but one main thing about this case is that the guy (as i understand it) did not max his credit card, it was his parents. He must have thought along the lines of what a great idea this is, get the money off my dad's card, gamble it, repay the card and keep the winnings. What could possible go wrong? :D
He had no right to use his parents card and I am sure he will on reflection realise what a stupid thing this was to do.
As for the stock market, interesting post from Tightend and sure there are different views out there. Obviously depends on what markets you are in to, but I am in a hold and see what happens mode. In other words I haven't a clue so sitting on the fence!  :)up

if the guy was using his parents cards could that not be classed as theft ?
With the parents claiming it all back on insurance ?

So to summarise you decided to max your cards with no intention of repaying? Clever stuff....not.

Many have declared this post from Tikay to be a good one.

While I agree with the overall sentiment, I find myself compelled to make the following point.
The people who have severe mental disorders that, in this easy credit culture, get them in a lot of trouble, need a little more protection.

I know some people with serious mental illnesses who have racked up massive debt. The type of guy who has some condition (which name I can't remember, but will try to find out) where, basically, they can't progress beyond the mental age of 12.

People with severe obsessive compulsive disorder, compulsive addictions and the like.

Most compulsions are flights of fancy that we take. Especially on a forum such as this one, where the vast majority of its members (including myself) have varying degrees of compulsion towards playing poker. We are mostly fortunate that we are strong(ish), with the benefit of such qualities as reality perception, foresight, hindsight, reason and just plain sensibleness.

Not many people here would agree that compulsions, such as drinking and gambling, are beyond control for some people. It's natural to think that, letting go of the world completely and indulging exclusively in one or more vice/s (which bring us pleasure in moderation) is not of their own making.
To the person who works hard for a living, it looks very liberal and lefty to consider such people having "no control."

99% of people who blame the credit companies should just put it down to experience, looking inwards for who is at fault. For the remaining 1% (people for whom finances are the least of their problems) the gigantic financial institutions need to start being a little more responsible.

good post

I think both tank and tikay's posts are good


I've known the downside of compulsion but was always fortunate to earn enough money to withstand the effects (at the time )

and blonde takes its responsibilities towards sensible gambling seriously

for those who haven't see it, here's my responsible gambling piece

http://www.blondepoker.com/index.php?q=node/2263

Sorry for the made up statistic in the last paragraph.

85% of statistics are made up on the spot, no excuse though.

LOL like your last line there

Very good comments tank.     

this post is not called for.

bandit alreadt said and i qoute "daft i know but sounded a good idea at the time"
i think that tells us all that he regrets doing it and has probably had to live with the stress and strains of his actions for a number of years.

he does need people like redsimon patronising him with cheap shot posts.

we were all young once (yes including tikay though doubt plastic was even invented then let alone credit cards ;)) and we have all made mistakes and silly decisions in our lifes and i admire bandits honest in posting his experience on here.

we should all be able to post honestly without ridicule of others especially when bandit has already  pointed out in the original post the errors of his ways.

wow  :goodpost: :goodpost: ;D

Personally speaking my bank manager offered me a loan even though i never asked for one! Based on the knowledge i play poker, it might have something to do with the fact he runs the office home game......

There is a clause in the T&T's that basically means you are responsible for your own security, if they feel you were lapse in any way (letting your kids get hold of your card) they can refuse to pay.

Not if your kids have stolen the card and you are pressing charges for arrest.

Nope, if they feel you were lapse in your security they *may* refuse to pay out.

In court they wouldn't have a leg to stand on. My kid stole my credit card and maxed it out, I have pressed charges and started legal proceedings, thats it.

They should have pin numbers on credits cards for online payments, but they dont? I wonder why...

You misunderstand i think, they are not obliged to repay, even the financial ombudsman cannot force them to and they are who they answer to.
If you have been lapse in your security you are responsible (they don't often take this stand though).

My point is how could they define you had a "laspe in your security" after your kids stole your credit card?

Because they could.
I have an ongoing dispute with LLoydsTsb, i had my chequebook stolen from my car, they say it should have been more secure and are refusing to pay back the money stolen.

Anyway, come and rail me on blonde, final of a $30 tourny i'm Ellie-Anne.

Good Luck mate.

You really are clueless aren't you. He's admitted to defrauding the CC company. Guess thats allowed if your "young" ....sheesh what a plonker

Just to correct you Redsimon, Technically under Scottish law what Bandit did is known as " Bad debting", its is legal and there is no recourse through law practice, other than asking you to repay the debt, Its not Fraud as you put it.

Infact under Scottish law the Debt collection agencies cannot seize his assets either, all they can do is hassle him in to paying and continue to "black list" him to hinder his chances of gaining credit in future.

Wow so I can move up to Scotland, get £100K or so on credit with no intention of paying it back and all they can do to get it back is ask me?

Surely lenders must have some protection or nobody would ever pay them back?

Thats the short version but yes, There are a few minor loop-holes you must observe but essentially yes, you can borrow what people are willing to lend you and your assetts are safe, even your home cant be sold if you LIVE in it.

Scottish law has that protection for the people.

and while of course views can be strong and arguments can get heated...no flaming please!


Thanks


No deletions cos it would spoil whats been an interesting thread but a few posts cross the line. No more please, thanks

Spot on!

The developed economies are awash with cash, because latterly it has had little effect on inflation. Interest rates stay low (virtually 0%in Japan)– fixed assets increase in value, but are not included in inflation stats. (e.g. your house) borrowing against these assets and more particularly spending, continue apace. Perfect - everyone gets a $million and prices for most things stay the same.

Inflation normally occurs when too much cash is chasing too few goods.

But we have plenty of goods for everyone. New products and services on the one hand, and cheap goods from China, India and other developing low wage economies on the other.

But can it last? Tightend’s comments about commodities are relevant here as the low cost sources of goods, experience their own inflationary pressures from raw material costs and their own rapidly rising internal demand. They have no requirement other than market forces to keep supplying goods to us at low cost and it is their inflation which will ultimately hit our economies, either as lower profitability or rising costs.

Note that China is currently building 500 coal fired power stations and 150 airports.

The UK government and the lenders do not really care about personal debt (10 billion unsecured, but probably insured and you can now go bust online apparently) as they themselves have to keep spending and lending – and at an increasing rate.

No problem as long as no one ‘rocks the boat’ – or should that be ‘bursts the bubble’?

Consider that 60% of the UK economy north of Birmingham is government funded. In Scotland only 600,000 people are in work. The two top ‘industries’ in the UK are financial services and tourism and PartyPoker is in the footsie 100!

What a fluffy world we live in.

What's your background Seamus?


Shall we have our own child board?

It's interesting to note that China are winning just about every major contract available in machining/Aerospace components of late.
Roll Royce gave them a huge contract for their engine parts (jet engine) effectively making them the customer for all of RR's suppliers.
They are just rediculously cheap and are starting to get the quality control right, it's truly frightening stuff.
In the UK the machining costs waver around £80-£100 per hour yet in China it is more like £5-£10.

".....China is building 500 Power Stations & 150 Airports...".....

Wow! If true (& no reason to disbelieve) that takes my breath away.

Extraodinary!

I see Bandit has come in for some grief here.......

I gotta say this. He was wrong. But he was man enough to admit it it, to "out" himself, & say he'd learned his lesson, & has mended his ways.

I think we need to remember that most of us, in our adolescent years, did some pretty stupid things which, now we are truly ashamed of, or embarrassed about. Anyone that did not either has a selective memory, has never "lived", or is quite exceptional.

I got in with a bad bunch in my late teens. Friday night was a routine - steal a car, 4 or 5 of us get in, go to a party, get bladdered (I used to drink then, I stopped at 21). I never actualy stole a car - would not know how to, then or now, but I was one of "the gang".

One Friday night, we'd been to a party with, as it happens, Mick Jaggers brother, & 7 or 8 of us were homeward bound. Steal two cars, we piled into them, 4 in one, 3 in the other. The next day, the Police came knocking. The other stolen car had killed a pedestrian, "hit & run". Eventually the driver was arrested & sent to prison. I got off with a severe caution, I was "an accessory" & "conspiracy to steal" was mentioned. But worse than that - I was 19, & my Dad, who loved me more than any Dad can love his Son, beat me black & blue.

The point is, we ALL did stupid things when we are young. It's called growing up. I don't approve of what Bandit did - nor does he now! - but lets not shoot him for the excesses of youth. He regrets it now, just as I regret so many of the stupid things I have done in life.

I actually think he's a big man for telling the story.

Very wise words tikay  :)up

I may, in time, be brought round to the fact that Tikay was once a teenager. In another time, a different era.

It will be quite another matter entirely to convince me that the motor car had been invented by then.

As to Tank's rejoinder to my Post, I take his point. Obviously, those who are mentally unfit need help & protection, it goes without saying.

Though we need to be careful here. Some of them only become "mentally unfit" after the misdemanour......

"Honest, M'Lord, I did not know what I was doing...".

But seriously, if you take out & spend, say, £10,000 of CC loans which you know you cannot repay, is that a bad thing, a lapse of judgement, & does that lapse of judgement equate to "mentally unfit"? It's tricky, which is why Tank's post is so thought provoking.

Rob a bank. (Violence apart, the same thing). Can you plead "mentally unfit, I could not resist the temptation"? I think not.

Steam-driven, of course......

The Scots knew their place in life then, too.

Not all change is for the better - these days they think they own the place.

We do own the place, ist amasing what an abundance of fresh water and 4.5 million goverment giros will buy :D

how do you decifer from my post that im clueless?
i know perfectly well what bandit done was wrong as he states as well.
nobody said its allowed if your "young" only you in your patronising goody two shoes way.

my beef was that bandit was posting honestly something that had happened in his life and that he didnt need to be told what he had done was wrong or to be ridiculed for it by twats like you.


have you never done anything wrong? done something you have regretted after?

was someone ridiculing and patronising you helpful with you addressing the situation and trying to right your wrongs?   i think not

but then maybe your perfect!

Both very good posts.  Get the macroeconomics child board set up TightEnd!

We might have to have Tank checking for made up statistics though - "In Scotland only 600,000 people are in work".  C'mon!

Don't get me wrong, the public sector is far too influential in the Scottish economy, which is perhaps the general point you were making Seamus, but the public sector alone employs about 600,000 people in Scotland, with the private sector employing about 1.9m (government statistics).

Its spelt you're not your :D

Guys, this thread is too good to spoil by us Deleting stuff, but no more flaming please.

We allowed - maybe wrongly - a Poster to be called a "plonker", & once we'd made that mistake, it's tough not to allow the accused to defend himself, so we get "twat" then.

NO PERSONAL FLAMING.

We willl delete & take action if there is any more.

No I have never gone out and maxed my credit cards with no intention of repaying and no I have never prouldly posted this fact on an internet forum. Guess some of us have a different moral compass to others

lol wondered how long the spelling mistakes and grammar mistakes were used to ridicule  ;D

Sorry to be so Headmasterish today, but we did agree a while back that we don't deride peeps for spellng errors or typos.

It makes those who don't maybe spell so good desist from Posting, & that's a bad thing.

Jeez, I must really be getting old & tetchy to be saying these things, but we did all agree on this.

sorry tikay this is my last and if you feel the need to delete feel free.


i have never met mr redsimon and i hope i never do.
its people with his attitude that really get on my nerves,

my last word on the subject is that he's an idiot!

Maybe Simon didn't know "we all agree on this."

We need some forum rules Tikay

I learnt my lesson not to have auto login to any poker client. You never know who can login and blow the lot :( :blonde:

I thought the "your/you're" correction was a joke based on him being called perfect...

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Well you spotted it Bongo..Obviously a whoosh moment for everyone else.

Tikay is old...

woops, nanny state...

Maybe Nem, maybe.

The problem with hard & fast Rules is that they become a target for peeps to circumvent, & leave us no elbow room to use common-sense.

Peeps deliberately push the boundaries, & have no idea how tough it is for us to keep this place just so. We - certainly me - are all amateurs, I'm new to Fora life, so it's a bit of a struggle, to be honest. I guess some peeps enjoy making it harder for us.

if im one making it hard for you tikay i apologise.

No need ITB, you know that. I don't take offence easily, I was just explaining hiow it is.

Hello TenJack,

You are correct – I was quoting stats from memory – and must have fixed on the 600k public sector as the total.

The other stats. require updating also.

544 coal-fired power stations planned and 50 airports by 2010

whoosh

With regards to jokes that are a bit below the belt, rules should be in place. Also, racist jokes, welsh and scottish included.

Several of the Mods believe we should have hard & fast Rules, others, myself included, are against it.

Common sense has served me, & blonde, reasonably well.

I push the boundries......thats just me!

I also cant imagine Tikay's stroy is true, i think he was stealing a horse+cart!

There should be rules in place. 3000 posters, all thinking along different lines.

WOW James, you push boundries?!?!?!?? NEVER!!!!

You're just an argumentative *!$*%*!*  ;goodvevil;

LOL

No I'm not

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