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Title: Re: I've just Folded KK Preflop Post by: LeKnave on June 24, 2006, 02:32:47 AM Haha i think i nice tell is the fact that the raiser says "only 20 to go to money", id pick up on this as pretty weak and wanting to pick up the blinds then and there...in that situation...i call it, i dont play to 'scrape' the money, u want to win the damn thing, interested to know how far u went?
LeKnave Title: Re: I've just Folded KK Preflop Post by: RonK on June 24, 2006, 05:09:49 AM u played that hand all wrong,its almost sickening
Title: Re: I've just Folded KK Preflop Post by: totalise on June 24, 2006, 08:54:08 AM u played that hand all wrong,its almost sickening whats sickening is that your posts in the Hand Analysis have nearly always been posted in a condescending manner... usually devoid of any useful advice whatsoever. Not everybody is a full time world reknowned professional poker player like you, so its likely that people will make mistakes. If they cant post it here without people like you offering them nothing apart from pointless insults and snide comments, then how do you think that will make the less abled players feel about posting in this section of the forum? Maybe it was a bad fold, but the whole point of this board is to try and help people understand why, not just for a bunch of people to cry out "bad fold".. "man, you suck at life" "your fold makes me sick" and so on Mods, I apologise for the tone of this post, but its something that has been getting on my nerves for a while in here. Delete/modify as required Title: Re: I've just Folded KK Preflop Post by: M3boy on June 24, 2006, 09:28:44 AM ;iagree; :goodpost:
People pay their money and can play how they want. Personally in this situation, I would of re raised preflop looking to take it here and now or at least get it heads up, you have the position. I would of also bet the flop with an Ace high. As for folding KK preflop, of course you can (in rare circumstances but there are times to fold KK preflop, raise re raise all in etc,,,) I can see your thinking on folding here, but i personally wouldnt of done it in this situation - play to win baby!! GL Title: Re: I've just Folded KK Preflop Post by: ifm on June 24, 2006, 12:21:44 PM Playing to win is an interesting concept, on the plus side you generally get yourself into a position where you have plenty of chips come the final table.
The downside is you bust out of a huge percentage of tournies, sometimes unnecessarily. It's an interesting quandary, do i gamble or do i limp into the money? Do i gamble sometimes or just on the odd occasion? Do i have the "gears" required to do both at times? I think the best strategy is to avoid the allin coinflips and just raise preflop in position as often as possible and lay down to reraises (i mean with a wide range of hands). I'm interested to know what people mean by "i play to win". As for this hand Graham the truth is there is only one hand beating you, this is the most important factor preflop, as it happens you drop them on the flop but you can only really consider folding KK preflop if it is costing you all of your stack and even then only if it is obvious from the betting he has aces. There was a post by Rob Yong about playing KK preflop and he advocated calling and seeing a flop because if an ace flops you can get away from it (if not you can push him off AX) , whereas if you go allin a guy with AX has 5 cards to hit his ace. Overall though folding here will cost you over time. Title: Re: I've just Folded KK Preflop Post by: M3boy on June 24, 2006, 12:29:14 PM There was a post by Rob Yong about playing KK preflop and he advocated calling and seeing a flop because if an ace flops you can get away from it Not necessarily, just because an ace hits the flop, you can still win the pot. Depends on who you are playing. If you have raised preflop, and just got called, chances are they dont have AK and even if they do, YOU raised preflop. Whats to say YOU dont have AA?? or have hit a set? or two pair? The other person does not know you have KK. I for one will ALWAYS bet out first on an ace high flop if I have raised preflop (holding 10 10 JJ QQ KK), even raise if someone bets infront of me - I would say that more than 50% of the time I take down the pot there and then. Title: Re: I've just Folded KK Preflop Post by: ifm on June 24, 2006, 12:31:07 PM There was a post by Rob Yong about playing KK preflop and he advocated calling and seeing a flop because if an ace flops you can get away from it Not necessarily, just because an ace hits the flop, you can still win the pot. Depends on who you are playing. If you have raised preflop, and just got called, chances are they dont have AK and even if they do, YOU raised preflop. Whats to say YOU dont have AA?? or have hit a set? or two pair? The other person does not know you have KK. I for one will ALWAYS bet an ace high flop if I have raised preflop (holding 10 10 JJ QQ KK) - I would say that more than 50% of the time I take down the pot there and then. I agree, i always have a pop at an ace high flop if i've raised with a PP. I meant if someone bets into me on an ace high flop in this situation. Title: Re: I've just Folded KK Preflop Post by: Royal Flush on June 24, 2006, 12:33:54 PM wait till flushy reads this :pop: lol. If you are scared of the bubble (which is still 20 away!!!) and you dont want to risk losing KK then just knock it all in! Myself i am looking to get action here as i dont get KK that often so i would re-raise to 2500 Title: Re: I've just Folded KK Preflop Post by: Josh on June 24, 2006, 01:44:30 PM I push all-in purely because of his comment about "20 from the money" and reply with some sort of comment goading him to call.
Title: Re: I've just Folded KK Preflop Post by: Jim-D on June 24, 2006, 02:30:09 PM Thats 2 pre flop folds of KK in just over a week (dewi passed the others.......and his opponent showed him AA)
Title: Re: I've just Folded KK Preflop Post by: temp0r on June 24, 2006, 02:35:15 PM its a $5 buy-in. for christ sake.
Title: Re: I've just Folded KK Preflop Post by: Jim-D on June 24, 2006, 02:52:52 PM its a $5 buy-in. for christ sake. What differance does that make? Title: Re: I've just Folded KK Preflop Post by: Jim-D on June 24, 2006, 03:01:37 PM its a $5 buy-in. for christ sake. What differance does that make? A lot! Care to explain? Title: Re: I've just Folded KK Preflop Post by: Jim-D on June 24, 2006, 03:03:50 PM its a $5 buy-in. for christ sake. What differance does that make? A lot! Care to explain? No need to explain! OK. :D Title: Re: I've just Folded KK Preflop Post by: RonK on June 24, 2006, 06:20:31 PM u played that hand all wrong,its almost sickening whats sickening is that your posts in the Hand Analysis have nearly always been posted in a condescending manner... usually devoid of any useful advice whatsoever. Not everybody is a full time world reknowned professional poker player like you, so its likely that people will make mistakes. If they cant post it here without people like you offering them nothing apart from pointless insults and snide comments, then how do you think that will make the less abled players feel about posting in this section of the forum? Maybe it was a bad fold, but the whole point of this board is to try and help people understand why, not just for a bunch of people to cry out "bad fold".. "man, you suck at life" "your fold makes me sick" and so on Mods, I apologise for the tone of this post, but its something that has been getting on my nerves for a while in here. Delete/modify as required my god ur using the old cliche we're all not poker professionals like you,very orignal if i had a cookie id give it to you. Title: Re: I've just Folded KK Preflop Post by: JungleCat03 on June 25, 2006, 01:48:33 PM Don't fold.
As Le knave said, this comment ....... .....OsloJack said, "only 20 to go to money"...... is a fairly reliable indicator that he doesn't want action and also that his blinds are up for grabs. I don't push as it's overplaying probably the best preflop hand you'll get this tourney. I raise enough to make a small pair/ rag ace make a mistake by calling and also make the pot big enough that he will consider pushing with TT-QQ or AK/AQ to take it down. I would raise 1700 - 2000 here. Don't ever worry about being behind here. When someone makes it 900 to go UTG on 100 200, you are never behind their range with KK. Title: Re: I've just Folded KK Preflop Post by: Graham C on June 26, 2006, 12:51:35 AM I shouldn't have folded, I appreciate that and it's not something I'll ever do again. I ended up coming 35th which isn't too bad going, despite the lack of money for that!
Title: Re: I've just Folded KK Preflop Post by: Graham C on June 26, 2006, 01:02:09 AM KK time again, and I didn't fold ;)
PokerStars Game #5365132053: Tournament #26604070, $3.00+$0.30 Hold'em No Limit - Level X (400/800) - 2006/06/25 - 20:00:31 (ET) Table '26604070 264' 9-max Seat #2 is the button Seat 1: Lulabell998 (8480 in chips) Seat 2: 123Dick (9300 in chips) Seat 3: Graham0573 (9230 in chips) Seat 4: asner (2910 in chips) Seat 5: michael97045 (11548 in chips) Seat 6: wolfferine (8780 in chips) Seat 7: Diogenes69 (11825 in chips) Seat 8: allinstevie (5053 in chips) Seat 9: miahmonte (16520 in chips) Lulabell998: posts the ante 50 123Dick: posts the ante 50 Graham0573: posts the ante 50 asner: posts the ante 50 michael97045: posts the ante 50 wolfferine: posts the ante 50 Diogenes69: posts the ante 50 allinstevie: posts the ante 50 miahmonte: posts the ante 50 Graham0573: posts small blind 400 asner: posts big blind 800 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to Graham0573 [Kc Kh] michael97045: folds wolfferine: folds Diogenes69: folds allinstevie: raises 4203 to 5003 and is all-in miahmonte: folds Lulabell998: folds 123Dick: folds Graham0573: calls 4603 asner: folds *** FLOP *** [Qh 4d 2d] *** TURN *** [Qh 4d 2d] [8c] *** RIVER *** [Qh 4d 2d 8c] [6h] *** SHOW DOWN *** Graham0573: shows [Kc Kh] (a pair of Kings) allinstevie: shows [Tc Ah] (high card Ace) Graham0573 collected 11256 from pot *** SUMMARY *** Total pot 11256 | Rake 0 Board [Qh 4d 2d 8c 6h] Seat 1: Lulabell998 folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 2: 123Dick (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 3: Graham0573 (small blind) showed [Kc Kh] and won (11256) with a pair of Kings Seat 4: asner (big blind) folded before Flop Seat 5: michael97045 folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 6: wolfferine folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 7: Diogenes69 folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 8: allinstevie showed [Tc Ah] and lost with high card Ace Seat 9: miahmonte folded before Flop (didn't bet) Now that was handy :) Title: Re: I've just Folded KK Preflop Post by: Jim-D on June 26, 2006, 09:54:25 AM Thats more like it fella!!
Title: Re: I've just Folded KK Preflop Post by: Pab on June 26, 2006, 10:52:30 AM Play the KK hard, the times you run into AA are unfortante but very rare.
Title: Re: I've just Folded KK Preflop Post by: Horneris on June 26, 2006, 01:39:27 PM I would never be able to fold KK in this type of tournament, particulairly for this sort of buy in, despite only bein a low stakes player myself, i would happily gamble that my opponent dosent hold AA as he usually dosent (QQ, JJ, AK, 1010)
The only time ive ever folded KK is in a cash game to "Le Knave" himself, when it was early on and i raised £2 and he moved all in for a further £16. Now he dosent often mess with me, and it was fairly obvious the sort of hand i had. And i also knew that he wouldnt risk going home straight away, when we had a godo night of poker in store against weaker players if he didnt have AA:- so i folded. Later on everyone else told me and he admitted himself, that he had AA but was happy to just win the £2.75 already in the pot. 8) Title: Re: I've just Folded KK Preflop Post by: seamus on June 26, 2006, 02:30:51 PM Hello Graham
I agree with other posts that you should have seen the flop. You were in dealer position with 6k chips and able to react to any bet to the ace as you see fit. However KK lurgi is prevalent right now. Here are two examples 5 minutes apart. Jun 25 23:40:39] : Hand Start. [Jun 25 23:40:39] : Seat 1 : zimBRABIM has $2,440 [Jun 25 23:40:39] : Seat 2 : noirsheep has $580 [Jun 25 23:40:39] : Seat 3 : YYZ Tower has $5,550 [Jun 25 23:40:39] : Seat 4 : Kvn87 has $350 [Jun 25 23:40:39] : Seat 5 : JustBettor has $590 [Jun 25 23:40:39] : Seat 6 : el seamus has $20,350 [Jun 25 23:40:39] : Seat 7 : lono1 has $5,860 [Jun 25 23:40:39] : Seat 9 : casualone has $2,250 [Jun 25 23:40:40] : Kvn87 is the dealer. [Jun 25 23:40:40] : JustBettor posted small blind. [Jun 25 23:40:40] : el seamus posted big blind. [Jun 25 23:40:40] : Game [53] started with 8 players. [Jun 25 23:40:40] : Dealing Hole Cards. [Jun 25 23:40:40] : Seat 6 : el seamus has Kh Ks [Jun 25 23:40:46] : lono1 folded. [Jun 25 23:40:49] : casualone folded. [Jun 25 23:40:52] : zimBRABIM called 400 and raised 2,040 and is All-in [Jun 25 23:40:52] : noirsheep folded. [Jun 25 23:40:54] : YYZ Tower folded. [Jun 25 23:40:54] : Kvn87 folded. [Jun 25 23:40:54] : JustBettor did not respond and is folded [Jun 25 23:40:55] : Stakes: 200/400 Current level: 6 Level up in: 8 min. Break in: 15 min. Players : 48 [Jun 25 23:40:59] : el seamus called 2,040 [Jun 25 23:41:00] : Showdown! [Jun 25 23:41:00] : Seat 6 : el seamus has Kh Ks [Jun 25 23:41:02] : Seat 1 : zimBRABIM has 9h 8h [Jun 25 23:41:02] : Seat 6 : el seamus has Kh Ks [Jun 25 23:41:11] : Board cards [9d 9s 7h Th 8s] [Jun 25 23:41:11] : Seat 1 : zimBRABIM has 9h 8h [Jun 25 23:41:11] : zimBRABIM has Full House : 9s full of 8s [Jun 25 23:41:11] : Seat 6 : el seamus has Kh Ks [Jun 25 23:41:11] : el seamus has Two Pair: Kings and 9s [Jun 25 23:41:11] : zimBRABIM wins 5,080 with Full House : 9s full of 8s [Jun 25 23:41:15] : Stakes: 200/400 Current level: 6 Level up in: 7 min. Break in: 15 min. Players : 46 [Jun 25 23:41:21] : Hand is over. [Jun 25 23:41:21] : [Jun 25 23:41:21] : Stakes: 200/400 Current level: 6 Level up in: 7 min. Break in: 15 min. Players : 46 [Jun 25 23:44:39] : Hand Start. [Jun 25 23:44:39] : Seat 1 : YYZ Tower has $5,550 [Jun 25 23:44:39] : Seat 2 : bluffrhuntr has $11,140 [Jun 25 23:44:39] : Seat 3 : kutty has $12,375 [Jun 25 23:44:39] : Seat 4 : chewy561 has $7,485 [Jun 25 23:44:39] : Seat 6 : MissHoolie has $9,000 [Jun 25 23:44:39] : Seat 7 : el seamus has $17,710 [Jun 25 23:44:39] : Seat 8 : outbound has $150 [Jun 25 23:44:39] : Seat 9 : bri-fin has $15,525 [Jun 25 23:44:39] : 'Dead button' is at seat 4 [Jun 25 23:44:39] : MissHoolie posted small blind. [Jun 25 23:44:39] : el seamus posted big blind. [Jun 25 23:44:39] : Game [64] started with 8 players. [Jun 25 23:44:39] : Dealing Hole Cards. [Jun 25 23:44:39] : Seat 7 : el seamus has 2c 5c [Jun 25 23:44:39] : outbound folded. [Jun 25 23:44:44] : bri-fin folded. [Jun 25 23:44:47] : YYZ Tower called 400 [Jun 25 23:44:48] : bluffrhuntr folded. [Jun 25 23:44:48] : kutty folded. [Jun 25 23:44:48] : chewy561 folded. [Jun 25 23:44:55] : MissHoolie called 200 and raised 800 [Jun 25 23:44:57] : Stakes: 200/400 Current level: 6 Level up in: 4 min. Break in: 11 min. Players : 41 [Jun 25 23:44:58] : el seamus folded. [Jun 25 23:44:59] : YYZ Tower called 800 [Jun 25 23:45:00] : Dealing flop. [Jun 25 23:45:00] : Board cards [Qd 9d 7h] [Jun 25 23:45:06] : MissHoolie bet 800 [Jun 25 23:45:07] : YYZ Tower called 800 and raised 3,550 and is All-in [Jun 25 23:45:13] : MissHoolie called 3,550 [Jun 25 23:45:13] : Showdown! [Jun 25 23:45:15] : Seat 1 : YYZ Tower has 9h Qh [Jun 25 23:45:16] : Seat 6 : MissHoolie has Kc Kh [Jun 25 23:45:17] : Stakes: 200/400 Current level: 6 Level up in: 3 min. Break in: 11 min. Players : 41 [Jun 25 23:45:21] : Board cards [Qd 9d 7h 8h 5d] [Jun 25 23:45:21] : Seat 1 : YYZ Tower has 9h Qh [Jun 25 23:45:21] : YYZ Tower has Two Pair: Queens and 9s [Jun 25 23:45:21] : Seat 6 : MissHoolie has Kc Kh [Jun 25 23:45:21] : MissHoolie has Pair: Kings [Jun 25 23:45:21] : YYZ Tower wins 11,500 with Two Pair: Queens and 9s [Jun 25 23:45:25] : MissHoolie : vn [Jun 25 23:45:31] : Hand is over. [Jun 25 23:45:31] : [Jun 25 23:45:31] : Stakes: 200/400 Current level: 6 Level up in: 3 min. Break in: 11 min. Players : 41 Title: Re: I've just Folded KK Preflop Post by: temp0r on June 27, 2006, 09:15:37 PM its a $5 buy-in. for christ sake. What differance does that make? A lot! Care to explain? $5...thats less than £3 by the way. you really think your up against monsters? the only time i fold KK to 2 all-ins before me is in high stakes cash. |