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Resigns his captaincy....

I have a lot of respect for that move and the press gave him a round of applause!

jumped before he was pushed?

nope.

He wouldnt have been stripped of it by McClaren - either way thou I found it pretty honerable

i find it funny how yous can turn your back on someone.

he was a rising star then a villian after the argy game, then he was a star captain again, then he wasnt fit to be captian cos he had a mohican hair doo, then hes world class again, and now he is a villian again!

jesus christ, yous guys are lucky the wind didnt change!

How is saying he is a villian?

People have said he might not be warrenting his place and that is as a result of his performances. Footballers need to be judge on performances - thats not the same as turning your back on someone...

well  people shouldn t have claimed him to be one of the worlds best then, if he cant even keep his place?

I dont think people have claimed him to be one of the worlds best players for a couple of years... he is without doubt one of the worlds best free kick takers (way behind nobby solano mind). The recent emergence of Lennon is also a factor.

I disagree, MacLaren is very much in touch with national opinion.

Terry or Gerrard next?

Terry without a doubt. Gutsy centre halves always make good captains as they lead by example.

Gerrard has left me some lingering doubts on how good he actually is, he has failed to deliver miserably for England in this world cup.

Don't forget he's played for 12 months straight. Also Lampard had a record breaking 175 game run for Chelsea.

They've both done it in the Champions league which is a higher standard IMO.

I cannot think of any midfielder in the world I would rather have than Gerrard.

Also after Terry's world cup surely there is a question mark over his head too? Not great after his season at Chelsea.

Are you really that sure?
Do you support Liverpool by any chance?

Matt Le Tissier used to looked the worlds best player at Southampton. Now he had some skill for sure, however the other 10 players around him always ensured they helped him look this good.

If Lampard and Gerrard had played amazing games, do you think anyone would have commented "they did that having played so many games too and for so long"? Forget the excuses, they were both very poor. Period.

Yes I'm sure, and yes I openly support Liverpool.

Matt Le Tissier? LMAO is that really a comparison to Gerrard? Matt Le Tissier didn't play European football for starters. He did NO defensive work. I could go on and on about him... Steven Gerrard is one of the top 2 or 3 midfielders in the world. In my opinion (as a Liverpool fan) he is number 1.

He had 1 good game, 1 ok game and two not so good games and still scored 2 goals at this World Cup. Not bad after 70 odd great games this season for Liverpool.

2 bad games and he not world class? By that reckoning Ronaldinho is not world class, Riquelme's last game shows he's not either, Kaka is average after his last few games, John Terry has question marks over his head etc etc etc etc.

If we judged on people's last four games we wouldn't have many world class players really would we? I prefer to judge on Champions League and Premiership/La Liga/Serie A achievements by which Gerrard has set the benchmark for the rest in midfield.

Isn't it strange how all the worlds best seem to go missing at the WC and didnt perform?

Agreed.

The only comparison i am drawing is that when one player in your team is the heart beat and stands massively out from the rest, it is very easy to conjure up that they are the best in the world at their job. When Southampton had Le Tissier playing at his best, they too would have labelled him as the best in the world. Chelsea fans will say the same about Lampard.

I like Gerrard immensely, i really do, but for me in this world cup he has been very poor, if we are to take his past performances as the benchmark, then he has fallen (performance wise) quite drastically.


The sayings "not bad", "ok" and "good" are words that i do not want to see about a player of his supposed class. He along with Rooney and Lampard, held the nations hopes and between the 3 of them, they let us down BIGTIME, which is why we are out. For a player of his ability and reputation, his world cup was bad, i'm sure he isn't the happiest either. If he had 5 more games for Liverpool, before this world cup, i'm sure his 5 performances for them would have been far better than these 5 for England. The fact that he has played for 12 months is immaterial, had the Champions League winners managed to get into 4th spot and not had to qualify separately, he would have played fewer games.


Its a simple equation really.
Every Liverpool fan thinks he's one of the very best and would have him in their team without doubt.
Many England fans love him too and most would also have him in their team without doubt.
Rest of the world thinks he's good, but he would not be an automatic selection for everyone in a World XI.

Judge things on the Premiership, Champions League or whatever you want. The World Cup is the biggest footballing event in the world, the most fans, the most eyes on players, the most hope and despair. Great players come to this party and show the world what they are about.

 ;iagree;

I wonder if Charlton sell there own tinted spectacles - the Liverpool ones seem to work wonders!! ;)

Gerrard would be in most peoples World XI.

Pele thinks he the best in the world, ATM.

His wife also thinks that he makes a great ATM - she is constantly making withdrawals to go on shopping sprees............

I agree they had a bad world cup. However I don't think Soton fans thinking Le Tissier was the best in the world can seriously be compared to Gerrard or Lampard. One is not true at all whilst the others are at least debateable.

You are of course entitled to your opinion but in mine Gerrard and Lampard's huge seasons have cost them their fitness at the WC. The fact they have played so many games is not immaterial to me at all. On the contrary I find it very important. I also find the fact that we are the only nation not to have a winter break ridiculous and relevant.

"Its a simple equation really.
Every Liverpool fan thinks he's one of the very best and would have him in their team without doubt.
Many England fans love him too and most would also have him in their team without doubt.
Rest of the world thinks he's good, but he would not be an automatic selection for everyone in a World XI."

A huge contingent of my family support Barcelona and all I get through text is "When are you going to sell us Gerrard?" "We're bidding for Lampard!!" etc etc. They are the European Champions! I'm not sure where you got your info about the rest of the world? Every foreign fan I know, and I know quite a few coz of my family mostly being abroad and foreign, rate him and Lampard as outstanding. Lampard didn't get voted 2nd best player in the world by all of the coaches for being pants did he?

"Judge things on the Premiership, Champions League or whatever you want. The World Cup is the biggest footballing event in the world, the most fans, the most eyes on players, the most hope and despair. Great players come to this party and show the world what they are about."

Which great players? As you said in a previous post a question mark must hang over Gerrard's ability now. Well I say again this same question mark must then hang over all of those who didn't turn up.

Ronaldinho, Shevchenko, Kaka, Riquelme etc etc etc. None of these guys turned up recently. Zidane has shown up in only ONE game. Henry has been average. Are all of these guys not world class now too? Judging people on four games after a long season is ludicrous, in my opinion of course. :)

Gerrard would be in the mix for anybodys world XI - there is no one player that has been so massive for his team and managed to be successful with it in recent times.

Would a winter break and our two midfeilders not having played so much football have made a difference in their performances.... I suspect it certainly wouldnt have made them any worse!

Gerrard, Lampard, Ronaldinho, Shevchenko, Riquelme..........

At the end of the day it doesnt matter which individual is better than others because football is and always has been a "team" game - and at the end of the day if the "team" isn't good enough then they wont win.

Spot on. So saying these guys aren't world class anymore becuase their teams didn't perform is a bit premature IMO.

Matt Le Tissier is a prime example that ONE man can make a difference to a team. It is widely acknowledged that he singlehandedly kept Southampton up in one particular season. Great players have teams built around them. Gerrard should have been one of the world cup stars as should have Lampard. The only reason we seem to have for their apparent failure is that they have played too many games. They both played centre midfield where they like to. It is up to them to influence the game. The worlds greatest striker could play at right back and still have an impact on a game.

The pressure and tension these players have to endure is quite incredible, to hold a nations hopes on your shoulders is massive, especially in front of 60 million people. These couldrons show us characteristics that we do not see in the normal everday run of the mill games and most importantly differentiate the great from the very good.

Let me clarify:

I like Gerrard a lot, he is one of top 10 midfielders in the world without doubt and a very good player. When i talk about world class, this does not encompass 40 or 50 players like most seem to use it for. It is the 11 players i would choose to win a football game for me in order to save my life.

In all sports, there are players who step up to the plate (however tired they may be) when you really need them to more than ever, it's a mental/psychological thing, nothing to do with fitness at all. These players become our heroes and something we'd all love to be at some stage in our life. Typical examples would be:

Viv Richards
Pele
Johnnie Wilkinson
Tiger Woods
Pete Sampras.......the list could go on.....

England football teams need their back against the walls before they play, the Dunkirk spirit is all we have. It is no coincidence that 2 of our very best performances have been in the second half, where we are playing with a man less (Argies 4 years ago, if you recall). When selecting a captain i want somebody who will make other players shit themself if they don't do as told. Someone who leads by example and puts his head in where others won't. Someone who when he starts talking, the dressing room will go quiet and listen without a whisper.

Terry fits this label perfectly and there is noone who fits the role better as England captain then him IMO.

1-0 down to Olympiacos. Need to score 3 to go through. Result? Liverpool go through. (Gerrard screamer)

3-0 down to Milan. No way back. Result? Liverpool European Champions. (Gerrard header and geeing up the crowd)

2-0 down to West Ham in the cup final. Result? Liverpool FA Cup winners. (Gerrard two screamers)

Now honestly who does it more often on the bigger stage Terry or Gerrard? Not much of a contest eh?

That analysis is so pointless its untrue, any ardent Chelsea fan could show something on the same lines for Terry.

I am saying that Terry would be a better captain that Gerrard IMO. If you can point out exactly where i said that Terry produces more on the big stage than Gerrard, i will gladly send you a flying pig.

Is that american for "Full Stop"?

No it's English for full stop.

I never said you said that did I???

My question was who produces more on the big stage?

Gerrard is much more likely to fit into that list of sportsmen you wrote than Terry IMO. That was my point.

You are a Liverpool fan, a Stevie G fan, how on earth can you comment on whether Terry or Gerrard have done more on the big stage? At the very best, your rose tinted glasses will compound your error.

People who score goals will always take more headlines as its more attractive than last ditch tackles or heroic clearances off the line.

I'll give you 2 very clear and unarguable examples from the world cup.

1 - John Terry's scissor kick on the line for the last ditch clearance followed by the scrambling tackle to clear the ball.
2 - Ashley Cole making up 25 yards to deflect the shot from Ecuador.

Both of the above were far better than anything Gerrard did, but thats the way it is, scorers are "Hollywood", defenders are "soldiers". These 2 events are at the very top of my list when looking at English highlights from the World Cup.

"You are a Liverpool fan, a Stevie G fan, how on earth can you comment on whether Terry or Gerrard have done more on the big stage? At the very best, your rose tinted glasses will compound your error."

Becuase like you, I am entitled to my opinion. I see a Spurs fan and a Newcastle fan on here have agreed with me about Gerrard. Maybe they are biased too? Maybe Pele is when he says Gerrard is the greatest midifelder alive? Out of interest who do you support?

You are right, let us not get into examples, otherwise we'll be mentioning Terry's two mistakes that have put Chelsea out of consecutive Champions Leagues.

unfortunatly defenders mistakes are highlighted a lot more thats the nature of the beast!


next thing baron will be saying is that carragher is a better centre back than terry!

go on say it then you will prove you wear red tinted glasses  ;)

LOL! Shall I?

Nah, I know Terry is better. I'm just playing devil's advocate to discuss it properly.

Terry is amazing, no doubt about it but he's no Stevie G!

i agree he is no steve g they are completly different positions for a start

was pele a bobby moore?
was maradona a gordon banks?
was gainfranco zola a claude mackele?
was kenny dalglish an alan hansen?

all world class players in there own right.

Terry imo is a better leader of men for a start, steve g's squeeky voice and face that looks ready to cry all the time would hardly inspire me when the chips were down  :D

i think steve g is great at motivating himself but i dont think he could motivate those around him on and off the pitch as good as terry imo

This seems a bit of a redundant discussion. Obviously chelsea and liverpool fans will argue whether gerrard or terry would make a better england captain.

I think both have great leadership qualities and both have led their clubs. For me gerrard is slightly the better option as he has been a fixture in the england squad for longer and has slightly more experience but i would be happy with either of them.

Gerrard didn't have a great world cup, but still scored two goals in five games, one of them a screamer. This point has been made already but other players considered world class....ronaldinho.....shevchenko....nedved....(whose reputation is waning perhaps due to his age) also had very poor world cups, arguably worse world cups than gerrard. He's shown his worth in the two european cup finals he's played in , the gerrard fa cup final along with 3 seasons of consistant high quality perfomance for liverpool, just as ronaldinho has shown for barca why he is world class and shevchenko's goal record in serie A is outstanding.

These players will continue to be held in high esteem and will continue to be sought after by the top club managers. Terry had his highlights same as gerrard, but also made some uncharacteristic errors. I know this is very out of character for him though and he will be an ever better player because of this world cup's experiences.

the player who is choosen for his leadership qualities more than his playing qualities.

both players are the best we have in thier positions so terrys leadership skills tip it for me.

the mistake we made when beckham was made captain was that he isnt a natural leader. he was chosen more as a figure head for england on and off the field rather than to martial his troops on the pitch.

we must not make the same mistake again

Walcott for Captain!

May aswell continue the tradition of chosing the most overrated player in the squad.....

Since when! His strike rate is so low.

You put John Terry in the Spurs team and you put Ledley King in the Chelsea team and you all would say that King is the better defender.

Not only talking about attempts at goal id guess

Ah ok, still though there are plenty of players who can cross a ball in the England team.

his strike rate?

taking free kicks not just aablout scoring its also about assisting.

king is a very good player and i think will eventually take his position alongside terry in the england team but better than terry im sorry no.

See my last post m8

yes mate sorry posting as i read lol  :blonde:

(http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/6479/beckham8pf4cx.jpg)