Beckham...

[The Baron]

Isn't it strange how all the worlds best seem to go missing at the WC and didnt perform?

Agreed.

[Lee]

Yes I'm sure, and yes I openly support Liverpool.

Matt Le Tissier? LMAO is that really a comparison to Gerrard? Matt Le Tissier didn't play European football for starters. He did NO defensive work. I could go on and on about him... Steven Gerrard is one of the top 2 or 3 midfielders in the world. In my opinion (as a Liverpool fan) he is number 1.

The only comparison i am drawing is that when one player in your team is the heart beat and stands massively out from the rest, it is very easy to conjure up that they are the best in the world at their job. When Southampton had Le Tissier playing at his best, they too would have labelled him as the best in the world. Chelsea fans will say the same about Lampard.

I like Gerrard immensely, i really do, but for me in this world cup he has been very poor, if we are to take his past performances as the benchmark, then he has fallen (performance wise) quite drastically.

He had 1 good game, 1 ok game and two not so good games and still scored 2 goals at this World Cup. Not bad after 70 odd great games this season for Liverpool.

2 bad games and he not world class? By that reckoning Ronaldinho is not world class, Riquelme's last game shows he's not either, Kaka is average after his last few games, John Terry has question marks over his head etc etc etc etc.

The sayings "not bad", "ok" and "good" are words that i do not want to see about a player of his supposed class. He along with Rooney and Lampard, held the nations hopes and between the 3 of them, they let us down BIGTIME, which is why we are out. For a player of his ability and reputation, his world cup was bad, i'm sure he isn't the happiest either. If he had 5 more games for Liverpool, before this world cup, i'm sure his 5 performances for them would have been far better than these 5 for England. The fact that he has played for 12 months is immaterial, had the Champions League winners managed to get into 4th spot and not had to qualify separately, he would have played fewer games.

If we judged on people's last four games we wouldn't have many world class players really would we? I prefer to judge on Champions League and Premiership/La Liga/Serie A achievements by which Gerrard has set the benchmark for the rest in midfield.

Its a simple equation really.
Every Liverpool fan thinks he's one of the very best and would have him in their team without doubt.
Many England fans love him too and most would also have him in their team without doubt.
Rest of the world thinks he's good, but he would not be an automatic selection for everyone in a World XI.

Judge things on the Premiership, Champions League or whatever you want. The World Cup is the biggest footballing event in the world, the most fans, the most eyes on players, the most hope and despair. Great players come to this party and show the world what they are about.

[matt674]

Yes I'm sure, and yes I openly support Liverpool.

Matt Le Tissier? LMAO is that really a comparison to Gerrard? Matt Le Tissier didn't play European football for starters. He did NO defensive work. I could go on and on about him... Steven Gerrard is one of the top 2 or 3 midfielders in the world. In my opinion (as a Liverpool fan) he is number 1.

The only comparison i am drawing is that when one player in your team is the heart beat and stands massively out from the rest, it is very easy to conjure up that they are the best in the world at their job. When Southampton had Le Tissier playing at his best, they too would have labelled him as the best in the world. Chelsea fans will say the same about Lampard.

I like Gerrard immensely, i really do, but for me in this world cup he has been very poor, if we are to take his past performances as the benchmark, then he has fallen (performance wise) quite drastically.

He had 1 good game, 1 ok game and two not so good games and still scored 2 goals at this World Cup. Not bad after 70 odd great games this season for Liverpool.

2 bad games and he not world class? By that reckoning Ronaldinho is not world class, Riquelme's last game shows he's not either, Kaka is average after his last few games, John Terry has question marks over his head etc etc etc etc.

The sayings "not bad", "ok" and "good" are words that i do not want to see about a player of his supposed class. He along with Rooney and Lampard, held the nations hopes and between the 3 of them, they let us down BIGTIME, which is why we are out. For a player of his ability and reputation, his world cup was bad, i'm sure he isn't the happiest either. If he had 5 more games for Liverpool, before this world cup, i'm sure his 5 performances for them would have been far better than these 5 for England. The fact that he has played for 12 months is immaterial, had the Champions League winners managed to get into 4th spot and not had to qualify separately, he would have played fewer games.

If we judged on people's last four games we wouldn't have many world class players really would we? I prefer to judge on Champions League and Premiership/La Liga/Serie A achievements by which Gerrard has set the benchmark for the rest in midfield.

Its a simple equation really.
Every Liverpool fan thinks he's one of the very best and would have him in their team without doubt.
Many England fans love him too and most would also have him in their team without doubt.
Rest of the world thinks he's good, but he would not be an automatic selection for everyone in a World XI.

Judge things on the Premiership, Champions League or whatever you want. The World Cup is the biggest footballing event in the world, the most fans, the most eyes on players, the most hope and despair. Great players come to this party and show the world what they are about.

 

I wonder if Charlton sell there own tinted spectacles - the Liverpool ones seem to work wonders!!

[Nem]

Gerrard would be in most peoples World XI.

Pele thinks he the best in the world, ATM.

[matt674]

Gerrard would be in most peoples World XI.

Pele thinks he the best in the world, ATM.

His wife also thinks that he makes a great ATM - she is constantly making withdrawals to go on shopping sprees............

[The Baron]

I agree they had a bad world cup. However I don't think Soton fans thinking Le Tissier was the best in the world can seriously be compared to Gerrard or Lampard. One is not true at all whilst the others are at least debateable.

You are of course entitled to your opinion but in mine Gerrard and Lampard's huge seasons have cost them their fitness at the WC. The fact they have played so many games is not immaterial to me at all. On the contrary I find it very important. I also find the fact that we are the only nation not to have a winter break ridiculous and relevant.

"Its a simple equation really.
Every Liverpool fan thinks he's one of the very best and would have him in their team without doubt.
Many England fans love him too and most would also have him in their team without doubt.
Rest of the world thinks he's good, but he would not be an automatic selection for everyone in a World XI."

A huge contingent of my family support Barcelona and all I get through text is "When are you going to sell us Gerrard?" "We're bidding for Lampard!!" etc etc. They are the European Champions! I'm not sure where you got your info about the rest of the world? Every foreign fan I know, and I know quite a few coz of my family mostly being abroad and foreign, rate him and Lampard as outstanding. Lampard didn't get voted 2nd best player in the world by all of the coaches for being pants did he?

"Judge things on the Premiership, Champions League or whatever you want. The World Cup is the biggest footballing event in the world, the most fans, the most eyes on players, the most hope and despair. Great players come to this party and show the world what they are about."

Which great players? As you said in a previous post a question mark must hang over Gerrard's ability now. Well I say again this same question mark must then hang over all of those who didn't turn up.

Ronaldinho, Shevchenko, Kaka, Riquelme etc etc etc. None of these guys turned up recently. Zidane has shown up in only ONE game. Henry has been average. Are all of these guys not world class now too? Judging people on four games after a long season is ludicrous, in my opinion of course.

[Rooky9]

Gerrard would be in the mix for anybodys world XI - there is no one player that has been so massive for his team and managed to be successful with it in recent times.

[Rooky9]

Would a winter break and our two midfeilders not having played so much football have made a difference in their performances.... I suspect it certainly wouldnt have made them any worse!

[matt674]

Gerrard, Lampard, Ronaldinho, Shevchenko, Riquelme..........

At the end of the day it doesnt matter which individual is better than others because football is and always has been a "team" game - and at the end of the day if the "team" isn't good enough then they wont win.

[The Baron]

Gerrard, Lampard, Ronaldinho, Shevchenko, Riquelme..........

At the end of the day it doesnt matter which individual is better than others because football is and always has been a "team" game - and at the end of the day if the "team" isn't good enough then they wont win.

Spot on. So saying these guys aren't world class anymore becuase their teams didn't perform is a bit premature IMO.

[Lee]

Matt Le Tissier is a prime example that ONE man can make a difference to a team. It is widely acknowledged that he singlehandedly kept Southampton up in one particular season. Great players have teams built around them. Gerrard should have been one of the world cup stars as should have Lampard. The only reason we seem to have for their apparent failure is that they have played too many games. They both played centre midfield where they like to. It is up to them to influence the game. The worlds greatest striker could play at right back and still have an impact on a game.

The pressure and tension these players have to endure is quite incredible, to hold a nations hopes on your shoulders is massive, especially in front of 60 million people. These couldrons show us characteristics that we do not see in the normal everday run of the mill games and most importantly differentiate the great from the very good.

Let me clarify:

I like Gerrard a lot, he is one of top 10 midfielders in the world without doubt and a very good player. When i talk about world class, this does not encompass 40 or 50 players like most seem to use it for. It is the 11 players i would choose to win a football game for me in order to save my life.

In all sports, there are players who step up to the plate (however tired they may be) when you really need them to more than ever, it's a mental/psychological thing, nothing to do with fitness at all. These players become our heroes and something we'd all love to be at some stage in our life. Typical examples would be:

Viv Richards
Pele
Johnnie Wilkinson
Tiger Woods
Pete Sampras.......the list could go on.....

England football teams need their back against the walls before they play, the Dunkirk spirit is all we have. It is no coincidence that 2 of our very best performances have been in the second half, where we are playing with a man less (Argies 4 years ago, if you recall). When selecting a captain i want somebody who will make other players shit themself if they don't do as told. Someone who leads by example and puts his head in where others won't. Someone who when he starts talking, the dressing room will go quiet and listen without a whisper.

Terry fits this label perfectly and there is noone who fits the role better as England captain then him IMO.

[The Baron]

1-0 down to Olympiacos. Need to score 3 to go through. Result? Liverpool go through. (Gerrard screamer)

3-0 down to Milan. No way back. Result? Liverpool European Champions. (Gerrard header and geeing up the crowd)

2-0 down to West Ham in the cup final. Result? Liverpool FA Cup winners. (Gerrard two screamers)

Now honestly who does it more often on the bigger stage Terry or Gerrard? Not much of a contest eh?

[Lee]

That analysis is so pointless its untrue, any ardent Chelsea fan could show something on the same lines for Terry.

I am saying that Terry would be a better captain that Gerrard IMO. If you can point out exactly where i said that Terry produces more on the big stage than Gerrard, i will gladly send you a flying pig.

[byronkincaid]

Period

Is that american for "Full Stop"?

[Lee]

No it's English for full stop.