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Title: Cash game hand Post by: WellChief on September 18, 2006, 01:29:04 AM [Sep 18 01:21:31] : Hand Start.
[Sep 18 01:21:31] : Seat 1 : Wookster2 has $1,508 [Sep 18 01:21:31] : Seat 2 : MisterEko has $3,630.50 [Sep 18 01:21:31] : Seat 3 : dondong has $1,487 [Sep 18 01:21:31] : Seat 4 : UrLastChans has $2,883 [Sep 18 01:21:31] : Seat 5 : sezzer25 has $667.45 [Sep 18 01:21:31] : Seat 6 : jollyjolly has $1,471.77 [Sep 18 01:21:31] : sezzer25 is the dealer. [Sep 18 01:21:31] : jollyjolly posted small blind. [Sep 18 01:21:31] : Wookster2 posted big blind. [Sep 18 01:21:31] : Game [33932] started with 6 players. [Sep 18 01:21:31] : Dealing Hole Cards. [Sep 18 01:21:31] : Seat 2 : MisterEko has 8c 8d [Sep 18 01:21:33] : MisterEko called $20 [Sep 18 01:21:34] : dondong folded. [Sep 18 01:21:42] : UrLastChans called $20 and raised $55 [Sep 18 01:21:42] : sezzer25 folded. [Sep 18 01:21:45] : jollyjolly folded. [Sep 18 01:21:49] : Wookster2 called $55 [Sep 18 01:21:50] : MisterEko called $55 [Sep 18 01:21:51] : Dealing flop. [Sep 18 01:21:51] : Board cards [8h 3h 3s] [Sep 18 01:21:54] : Wookster2 checked. [Sep 18 01:21:56] : MisterEko checked. [Sep 18 01:22:01] : UrLastChans bet $200 [Sep 18 01:22:05] : Wookster2 folded. [Sep 18 01:22:07] : MisterEko called $200 [Sep 18 01:22:10] : Dealing turn. [Sep 18 01:22:10] : Board cards [8h 3h 3s 2s] [Sep 18 01:22:18] : MisterEko bet $300 [Sep 18 01:22:20] : UrLastChans called $300 [Sep 18 01:22:21] : Dealing river. [Sep 18 01:22:21] : Board cards [8h 3h 3s 2s As] [Sep 18 01:22:32] : MisterEko bet $400 [Sep 18 01:22:35] : UrLastChans called $400 and raised $1,908 and is All-in [Sep 18 01:22:50] : It's your turn. [Sep 18 01:22:50] : MisterEko has 10 seconds to respond. Thoughts? From what I know of Urlastchance he is a good, winning player. I'll tell you what happened later. Title: Re: Cash game hand Post by: Royal Flush on September 18, 2006, 01:32:31 AM Call and he has Ks Qs
Title: Re: Cash game hand Post by: snoopy1239 on September 18, 2006, 01:46:25 AM You can't be sure enough you're beat to fold.
A must call. If you lose, so be it. Title: Re: Cash game hand Post by: WellChief on September 18, 2006, 01:52:39 AM Ok. one more thing I will say is that the stacks are deep, and what hands does he raise with on the river that we can beat? I don't think Qs Ks raises here flushy..
Title: Re: Cash game hand Post by: Royal Flush on September 18, 2006, 02:02:02 AM Ok. one more thing I will say is that the stacks are deep, and what hands does he raise with on the river that we can beat? I don't think Qs Ks raises here flushy.. I know i just have a feeling you are going to say you called, he had AA and you lost a stack. If he has KQ i am freerolling as the times i am wrong i can say "well it was obviously a cold deck story and he had AA" Title: Re: Cash game hand Post by: jezza777 on September 18, 2006, 02:07:50 AM Flopped quads?
Title: Re: Cash game hand Post by: WellChief on September 18, 2006, 02:23:16 AM Ok I might as well just say then it can be discussed. I folded. He didn't say at the time but I said v v tough laydown in the chat box, he said good fold. I said doubt it and he said he had AA.
I have no reason to disbelieve what he said, as he seemed shocked and disappointed when I later typed that I had 8 8 in the chatbox. Plus we discussed the hand a bit. I was ok about doing this as its a few levels above the level I usually play so I'm not going to play him too often. Anyway, I'm getting 2/1 on the call at the end, am I ahead 1 time out of three here against a good opponent? Title: Re: Cash game hand Post by: totalise on September 18, 2006, 02:25:14 AM given your line, I think you should call, your hand looks like a real weak middling pocket pair that cant take heat on the river, the A is a perfect card to bluff-raise. If he is a good winning player, his range isn't AA only on any street, preflop his range is super wide, on the flop its about the same as preflop, on the turn he might have picked up a draw... so its too hard to attribute AA only as a jamming standard on the river given the action of both him and you throughout the hand
you are getting around 2/1 or so (3933:1908).... which given the action is a pretty good price. I dont much like the flop/turn combo unless its to sell weakness to your opponent, which is really great, but its not so great if you aren't calling when the best bluff card in the deck hits. Title: Re: Cash game hand Post by: Royal Flush on September 18, 2006, 02:28:37 AM given your line, I think you should call, your hand looks like a real weak middling pocket pair that cant take heat on the river, the A is a perfect card to bluff-raise. If he is a good winning player, his range isn't AA only on any street, preflop his range is super wide, on the flop its about the same as preflop, on the turn he might have picked up a draw... so its too hard to attribute AA only as a jamming standard on the river given the action of both him and you throughout the hand you are getting around 2/1 or so (3933:1908).... which given the action is a pretty good price. I dont much like the flop/turn combo unless its to sell weakness to your opponent, which is really great, but its not so great if you aren't calling when the best bluff card in the deck hits. I was just typing that........ ::) Title: Re: Cash game hand Post by: WellChief on September 18, 2006, 02:31:21 AM Yeh I was trying to look weak, but I guess your right that I shouldn't fold on the river playing it that way. Maybe I was affected as I was deep stacked and two levels above my normal level, but I really got the feeling I was beat, you know based on everything I'd seen from that player. It's hard to affix a percentage to my feeling in 30 seconds.
One of those good fold, but bad folds. I've never folded a hand so strong before. Title: Re: Cash game hand Post by: totalise on September 18, 2006, 02:34:01 AM Ok I might as well just say then it can be discussed. I folded. He didn't say at the time but I said v v tough laydown in the chat box, he said good fold. I said doubt it and he said he had AA. I have no reason to disbelieve what he said, as he seemed shocked and disappointed when I later typed that I had 8 8 in the chatbox. Plus we discussed the hand a bit. I was ok about doing this as its a few levels above the level I usually play so I'm not going to play him too often. Anyway, I'm getting 2/1 on the call at the end, am I ahead 1 time out of three here against a good opponent? it really depends on what you mean by "good"... against good lag players you are good here nearly all the time, against good solid players you are good here often enough to call, against nitty good players who's hand requirements are similar to that of omaha, you are rarely winning. All these are considered good in the sense that they are winning poker players... and you aren't really deep by conventional standards, normal poker sites have 100BB stacks so your oppo isn't even up half a buyin by most peoples thinking. If you were 300bb deep, it would make a world of difference. Also dont be too quick to believe him when he says he has AA, theres a lot of value in having people think your river pushes are with big hands, as the good lag's pray on picking up pots on the river when scare cards hit, so it behooves him to have that image implanted in not just your mind, but that of the rest of the table as well Title: Re: Cash game hand Post by: WellChief on September 18, 2006, 02:37:30 AM Cheers for the analysis as always totalise! Back to 3/6 i go :)
Title: Re: Cash game hand Post by: snoopy1239 on September 18, 2006, 03:12:46 AM Ok I might as well just say then it can be discussed. I folded. He didn't say at the time but I said v v tough laydown in the chat box, he said good fold. I said doubt it and he said he had AA. I have no reason to disbelieve what he said, as he seemed shocked and disappointed when I later typed that I had 8 8 in the chatbox. Plus we discussed the hand a bit. I was ok about doing this as its a few levels above the level I usually play so I'm not going to play him too often. Anyway, I'm getting 2/1 on the call at the end, am I ahead 1 time out of three here against a good opponent? If he was shocked by your hand, then why did he move all-in? Surely he'd want to milk you on the River, especially with the Ace of Spades being such a dangerous card. Assuming that he hasn't somehow put you on 8-8, he must put you on a hand that won't call such a big re-raise. Title: Re: Cash game hand Post by: totalise on September 18, 2006, 03:22:48 AM Ok I might as well just say then it can be discussed. I folded. He didn't say at the time but I said v v tough laydown in the chat box, he said good fold. I said doubt it and he said he had AA. I have no reason to disbelieve what he said, as he seemed shocked and disappointed when I later typed that I had 8 8 in the chatbox. Plus we discussed the hand a bit. I was ok about doing this as its a few levels above the level I usually play so I'm not going to play him too often. Anyway, I'm getting 2/1 on the call at the end, am I ahead 1 time out of three here against a good opponent? If he was shocked by your hand, then why did he move all-in? Surely he'd want to milk you on the River, especially with the Ace of Spades being such a dangerous card. not really, villain only has a pot sized bet left, and given the texture of the board and the action, if Well has any hand that can call a smallish raise, then it will call a psb a pretty good proportion of the time anyways, ie if he calls a $500 raise 100% of the time, and calls a $1900 raise 30% of the time it makes more money by pushing (1900*0.3 is $570), I wouldn't try and infer much from the size of the river raise, because these people aren't so bad that they jam these rivers with bluffs and raise these rivers small with big hands. Title: Re: Cash game hand Post by: M3boy on September 18, 2006, 03:38:54 PM WOW, I dont think I could lay that down.
Only 2 hands that have you covered here. I suppose this highlights why we should never play above our normal level? I doubt that you would of folded this at 3/6 would you? Dont get me wrong, I am not critising you in any way, far from it! Just dont think I could of layed this. Title: Re: Cash game hand Post by: boldie on September 18, 2006, 04:07:47 PM WOW, I dont think I could lay that down. Only 2 hands that have you covered here. I suppose this highlights why we should never play above our normal level? I doubt that you would of folded this at 3/6 would you? Dont get me wrong, I am not critising you in any way, far from it! Just dont think I could of layed this. yeah I'd agree with that. I wouldn't have been able to lay this down. Title: Re: Cash game hand Post by: snoopy1239 on September 18, 2006, 05:06:17 PM There is only one possible (realistically) hand that has you beat.
There are a few that you have beat, including a bluff. You have to call Title: Re: Cash game hand Post by: snoopy1239 on September 18, 2006, 05:10:27 PM Ok I might as well just say then it can be discussed. I folded. He didn't say at the time but I said v v tough laydown in the chat box, he said good fold. I said doubt it and he said he had AA. I have no reason to disbelieve what he said, as he seemed shocked and disappointed when I later typed that I had 8 8 in the chatbox. Plus we discussed the hand a bit. I was ok about doing this as its a few levels above the level I usually play so I'm not going to play him too often. Anyway, I'm getting 2/1 on the call at the end, am I ahead 1 time out of three here against a good opponent? If he was shocked by your hand, then why did he move all-in? Surely he'd want to milk you on the River, especially with the Ace of Spades being such a dangerous card. not really, villain only has a pot sized bet left, and given the texture of the board and the action, if Well has any hand that can call a smallish raise, then it will call a psb a pretty good proportion of the time anyways, ie if he calls a $500 raise 100% of the time, and calls a $1900 raise 30% of the time it makes more money by pushing (1900*0.3 is $570), I wouldn't try and infer much from the size of the river raise, because these people aren't so bad that they jam these rivers with bluffs and raise these rivers small with big hands. True If it was me though, I would have raised around 1,000 to entice the middling pair to call. I mean, if you're the guy with the middling pair such as nines, then what do you expect to be beating once the Ace hits. K-Qo?? Title: Re: Cash game hand Post by: WellChief on September 18, 2006, 05:37:46 PM You're right M3boy there's no way id have laid it down for the equivilent pot in a 3/6 game. Like I said it was a mistake and probably shouldn't even have posted it as its kinda embarrasing. I do believe that he had AA though as he was just about to leave the table when we were discussing the hand.
Title: Re: Cash game hand Post by: M3boy on September 18, 2006, 06:02:16 PM Embarrasing? maybe.
But a good way to learn - I have posted hand histories on here knowing that I have played them badly. Title: Re: Cash game hand Post by: Royal Flush on September 18, 2006, 06:27:14 PM Embarrasing? maybe. But a good way to learn - I have posted hand histories on here knowing that I have played them badly. And then defended the play! Title: Re: Cash game hand Post by: booder on September 18, 2006, 06:29:46 PM easy fold
Title: Re: Cash game hand Post by: snoopy1239 on September 18, 2006, 08:57:09 PM Title: Re: Cash game hand Post by: booder on September 18, 2006, 09:07:33 PM been following dales advice..............standard fold
Title: Re: Cash game hand Post by: snoopy1239 on September 18, 2006, 09:13:42 PM been following dales advice..............standard fold What's dale's advice? Title: Re: Cash game hand Post by: totalise on September 18, 2006, 09:28:12 PM been following dales advice..............standard fold What's dale's advice? its a sideways mockery of dales sng philosophy to fold biggish hands early because of chip value discrepancies, and seemingly takes it too far at times. He's posted a couple of these hellmuthian laydown hands on here somewhere. holla Title: Re: Cash game hand Post by: Nem on September 18, 2006, 09:45:21 PM its a sideways mockery of dales sng philosophy to fold biggish hands early because of chip value discrepancies, and seemingly takes it too far at times. He's posted a couple of these hellmuthian laydown hands on here somewhere. holla I'm HOLLA You're Ship It Title: Re: Cash game hand Post by: Royal Flush on September 18, 2006, 10:58:44 PM Does that make me PWNED?
Title: Re: Cash game hand Post by: Nem on September 18, 2006, 11:06:53 PM Title: Re: Cash game hand Post by: M3boy on September 19, 2006, 01:25:35 AM Embarrasing? maybe. But a good way to learn - I have posted hand histories on here knowing that I have played them badly. And then defended the play! No, sometimes I make suggestions as to different ways to play. Title: Re: Cash game hand Post by: geeforce1 on September 19, 2006, 09:51:10 PM i call here. but i also play every other street different i think. URlASt is a vvvgood player, but he def not affriad of shipping it in.
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