Cash game hand

[WellChief]

[Sep 18 01:21:31] : Hand Start.
[Sep 18 01:21:31] : Seat 1 : Wookster2 has $1,508
[Sep 18 01:21:31] : Seat 2 : MisterEko has $3,630.50
[Sep 18 01:21:31] : Seat 3 : dondong has $1,487
[Sep 18 01:21:31] : Seat 4 : UrLastChans has $2,883
[Sep 18 01:21:31] : Seat 5 : sezzer25 has $667.45
[Sep 18 01:21:31] : Seat 6 : jollyjolly has $1,471.77
[Sep 18 01:21:31] : sezzer25 is the dealer.
[Sep 18 01:21:31] : jollyjolly posted small blind.
[Sep 18 01:21:31] : Wookster2 posted big blind.
[Sep 18 01:21:31] : Game [33932] started with 6 players.
[Sep 18 01:21:31] : Dealing Hole Cards.
[Sep 18 01:21:31] : Seat 2 : MisterEko has
[Sep 18 01:21:33] : MisterEko called $20
[Sep 18 01:21:34] : dondong folded.
[Sep 18 01:21:42] : UrLastChans called $20 and raised $55
[Sep 18 01:21:42] : sezzer25 folded.
[Sep 18 01:21:45] : jollyjolly folded.
[Sep 18 01:21:49] : Wookster2 called $55
[Sep 18 01:21:50] : MisterEko called $55
[Sep 18 01:21:51] : Dealing flop.
[Sep 18 01:21:51] : Board cards [ ]
[Sep 18 01:21:54] : Wookster2 checked.
[Sep 18 01:21:56] : MisterEko checked.
[Sep 18 01:22:01] : UrLastChans bet $200
[Sep 18 01:22:05] : Wookster2 folded.
[Sep 18 01:22:07] : MisterEko called $200
[Sep 18 01:22:10] : Dealing turn.
[Sep 18 01:22:10] : Board cards [ ]
[Sep 18 01:22:18] : MisterEko bet $300
[Sep 18 01:22:20] : UrLastChans called $300
[Sep 18 01:22:21] : Dealing river.
[Sep 18 01:22:21] : Board cards [   As]
[Sep 18 01:22:32] : MisterEko bet $400
[Sep 18 01:22:35] : UrLastChans called $400 and raised $1,908 and is All-in
[Sep 18 01:22:50] : It's your turn.
[Sep 18 01:22:50] : MisterEko has 10 seconds to respond.


Thoughts?  From what I know of Urlastchance he is a good, winning player.  I'll tell you what happened later.

[Royal Flush]

Call and he has

[snoopy1239]

You can't be sure enough you're beat to fold.

A must call.

If you lose, so be it.

[WellChief]

Ok. one more thing I will say is that the stacks are deep, and what hands does he raise with on the river that we can beat?  I don't think raises here flushy..

[Royal Flush]

Ok. one more thing I will say is that the stacks are deep, and what hands does he raise with on the river that we can beat?  I don't think raises here flushy..

I know i just have a feeling you are going to say you called, he had AA and you lost a stack. If he has KQ i am freerolling as the times i am wrong i can say "well it was obviously a cold deck story and he had AA"

[jezza777]

Flopped quads?

[WellChief]

Ok I might as well just say then it can be discussed.  I folded.  He didn't say at the time but I said v v tough laydown in the chat box, he said good fold.  I said doubt it and he said he had AA. 

I have no reason to disbelieve what he said, as he seemed shocked and disappointed when I later typed that I had 8 8 in the chatbox.  Plus we discussed the hand a bit.  I was ok about doing this as its a few levels above the level I usually play so I'm not going to play him too often. 

Anyway, I'm getting 2/1 on the call at the end, am I ahead 1 time out of three here against a good opponent?

[totalise]

given your line, I think you should call, your hand looks like a real weak middling pocket pair that cant take heat on the river, the A is a perfect card to bluff-raise. If he is a good winning player, his range isn't AA only on any street, preflop his range is super wide, on the flop its about the same as preflop, on the turn he might have picked up a draw... so its too hard to attribute AA only as a jamming standard on the river given the action of both him and you throughout the hand

you are getting around 2/1 or so (3933:1908).... which given the action is a pretty good price.

I dont much like the flop/turn combo unless its to sell weakness to your opponent, which is really great, but its not so great if you aren't calling when the best bluff card in the deck hits.

[Royal Flush]

given your line, I think you should call, your hand looks like a real weak middling pocket pair that cant take heat on the river, the A is a perfect card to bluff-raise. If he is a good winning player, his range isn't AA only on any street, preflop his range is super wide, on the flop its about the same as preflop, on the turn he might have picked up a draw... so its too hard to attribute AA only as a jamming standard on the river given the action of both him and you throughout the hand

you are getting around 2/1 or so (3933:1908).... which given the action is a pretty good price.

I dont much like the flop/turn combo unless its to sell weakness to your opponent, which is really great, but its not so great if you aren't calling when the best bluff card in the deck hits.

I was just typing that........

[WellChief]

Yeh I was trying to look weak, but I guess your right that I shouldn't fold on the river playing it that way.  Maybe I was affected as I was deep stacked and two levels above my normal level, but I really got the feeling I was beat, you know based on everything I'd seen from that player.  It's hard to affix a percentage to my feeling in 30 seconds.

One of those good fold, but bad folds.  I've never folded a hand so strong before.

[totalise]

Ok I might as well just say then it can be discussed.  I folded.  He didn't say at the time but I said v v tough laydown in the chat box, he said good fold.  I said doubt it and he said he had AA. 

I have no reason to disbelieve what he said, as he seemed shocked and disappointed when I later typed that I had 8 8 in the chatbox.  Plus we discussed the hand a bit.  I was ok about doing this as its a few levels above the level I usually play so I'm not going to play him too often. 

Anyway, I'm getting 2/1 on the call at the end, am I ahead 1 time out of three here against a good opponent?

it really depends on what you mean by "good"... against good lag players you are good here nearly all the time, against good solid players you are good here often enough to call, against nitty good players who's hand requirements are similar to that of omaha, you are rarely winning. All these are considered good in the sense that they are winning poker players... and you aren't really deep by conventional standards, normal poker sites have 100BB stacks so your oppo isn't even up half a buyin by most peoples thinking. If you were 300bb deep, it would make a world of difference.

Also dont be too quick to believe him when he says he has AA, theres a lot of value in having people think your river pushes are with big hands, as the good lag's pray on picking up pots on the river when scare cards hit, so it behooves him to have that image implanted in not just your mind, but that of the rest of the table as well

[WellChief]

Cheers for the analysis as always totalise!  Back to 3/6 i go

[snoopy1239]

Ok I might as well just say then it can be discussed.  I folded.  He didn't say at the time but I said v v tough laydown in the chat box, he said good fold.  I said doubt it and he said he had AA. 

I have no reason to disbelieve what he said, as he seemed shocked and disappointed when I later typed that I had 8 8 in the chatbox.  Plus we discussed the hand a bit.  I was ok about doing this as its a few levels above the level I usually play so I'm not going to play him too often. 

Anyway, I'm getting 2/1 on the call at the end, am I ahead 1 time out of three here against a good opponent?

If he was shocked by your hand, then why did he move all-in?

Surely he'd want to milk you on the River, especially with the Ace of Spades being such a dangerous card.

Assuming that he hasn't somehow put you on 8-8, he must put you on a hand that won't call such a big re-raise.

[totalise]

Ok I might as well just say then it can be discussed.  I folded.  He didn't say at the time but I said v v tough laydown in the chat box, he said good fold.  I said doubt it and he said he had AA. 

I have no reason to disbelieve what he said, as he seemed shocked and disappointed when I later typed that I had 8 8 in the chatbox.  Plus we discussed the hand a bit.  I was ok about doing this as its a few levels above the level I usually play so I'm not going to play him too often. 

Anyway, I'm getting 2/1 on the call at the end, am I ahead 1 time out of three here against a good opponent?

If he was shocked by your hand, then why did he move all-in?

Surely he'd want to milk you on the River, especially with the Ace of Spades being such a dangerous card.

not really, villain only has a pot sized bet left, and given the texture of the board and the action, if Well has any hand that can call a smallish raise, then it will call a psb a pretty good proportion of the time anyways, ie if he calls a $500 raise 100% of the time, and calls a $1900 raise 30% of the time it makes more money by pushing (1900*0.3 is $570), I wouldn't try and infer much from the size of the river raise, because these people aren't so bad that they jam these rivers with bluffs and raise these rivers small with big hands.

[M3boy]

WOW, I dont think I could lay that down.

Only 2 hands that have you covered here.

I suppose this highlights why we should never play above our normal level?

I doubt that you would of folded this at 3/6 would you?

Dont get me wrong, I am not critising you in any way, far from it! Just dont think I could of layed this.