blonde poker forum

PokerStars Game #2507603309: Tournament #12053612, Hold'em Pot Limit - Level II (15/30) - 2005/09/05 - 20:44:12 (ET)
Table '12053612 3' Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: e4f9j3l3 (1655 in chips)
Seat 2: Dunsurv (4605 in chips)
Seat 3: Ironside (5025 in chips)
Seat 4: crip17 (1685 in chips)
Seat 5: jford (5800 in chips)
Seat 6: onogod (3165 in chips)
Seat 7: TigerScream (2275 in chips)
Seat 8: BOSS HOGG (1240 in chips)
Seat 9: Annette (1410 in chips)
Annette: posts small blind 15
e4f9j3l3: posts big blind 30
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Ironside [As Ks]
Dunsurv said, "then why the bet"
Dunsurv said, "mmmmmmm"
Dunsurv: folds
Ironside: calls 30
crip17: raises 60 to 90
jford: folds
onogod: folds
TigerScream: calls 90
BOSS HOGG: folds
Annette: folds
e4f9j3l3: folds
Annette re-buys and receives 1500 chips for $20.00
Ironside: raises 315 to 405
crip17: folds
TigerScream: calls 315
*** FLOP *** [3c 6h 4d]
Ironside: bets 945
TigerScream: calls 945
*** TURN *** [3c 6h 4d] [3s]
Ironside: bets 2835
TigerScream: calls 925 and is all-in
*** RIVER *** [3c 6h 4d 3s] [6d]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Ironside: shows [As Ks] (two pair, Sixes and Threes)
TigerScream: shows [7h 7s] (two pair, Sevens and Sixes)
TigerScream collected 4685 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 4685 | Rake 0
Board [3c 6h 4d 3s 6d]
Seat 1: e4f9j3l3 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: Dunsurv folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: Ironside showed [As Ks] and lost with two pair, Sixes and Threes
Seat 4: crip17 folded before Flop
Seat 5: jford folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: onogod folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: TigerScream showed [7h 7s] and won (4685) with two pair, Sevens and Sixes
Seat 8: BOSS HOGG (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: Annette (small blind) folded before Flop


the guy calls on the flop here surely he must know he has to raise all in there is no way i can fold on flop or turn and if the turn is an AK he cant fold and has to put the rest of his chips in as a dog

if he has me on an overpair what is he calling for
if he has me on overcards surely he has to get his chips in as a favourite

yup, seems a funny call to be sure iron, but i've seen it done many a time, where the opponent is very timid and concerned that you have a higher overpair, without realising that a call is practically committing his whole stack anyhow. He gave you a chance of hitting, so long may it last ;)

However the flat call at the time would have set alarm bells ringing, especially given the amount - no flush draw on the flop, not enough odds to call for the straight draw if somehow he was holding a 5, and too many chips in already to be lining up a bluff - I'd be worried that the interpretation would be he had a made hand or an overpair (but certainly a lot bigger than 77). Perhaps given the flat calling nature a check might have been a better option at the end?

no checking the turn would have left me needing to call his bet getting practically 4-1

what did you put him on though? if an overpair then 4-1 to hit an A or a K , that's 6 from 46 (about 7-1?), and out the tourney :( Course its hard to give you any real comments because it all comes down to how the guy was playing beforehand, to try and infer any sort of info from his huge flat call. One for the player notes I reckon.

or he thinks that u will bluff off the rest of ur chips on the turn! he has made a decision that he is not passing the 77 no matter what comes on the turn??? would you have passed the ak on the flop? I have made calls like this as i no that the opponnent will put the rest of his chips in even if he misses... its risky but a chance u can sometimes take to build chips!

i like the play sometimes... just depends on what type of player ur playing, many players will fire one bulet then not again on the turn so u can move in without any hand! Calling just to bluff on the turn or river!

At-iT

it was still rebuy stage of a super sat and i had him covered

i decided to limp reraise from EP once i reraise knowing i was first to act on flop i could either check and let him take it away with a bet or comit if i bet out on flop i have to be prepared to commit all his chips

some people cant lay down pp's ......the board never scared him..dunno why..would have scared me...

but he should have went all in much earlier...

guys like him will pay u off in the long run as i'm sure u already know

Funnily enough TigersCream is one of the better Limit Tourny players there. Seems a real "limit" call

i wouldnt say one of the better players for hold-em but he does tend to play limit poker. Of his 25 cashes on pokerstars in mtt's 24 of them were in limit poker and only 1 in N/L. but of those 24 limit cashes 16 were in 7 card stud and only 8 in hold-em

so my guess would be that he's not a very good no-limit hold-em player and cant figure out whether he's in front or behind and would just call you down with any kind of hand.

Seems to me like he played it perfect.

Like Ian says if he believes he is ahead then why not let you bluff of the rst of your stack?!!?!?!?!?

Even more so when its the rebuy stage!

if he believe he was infront he was still going to get paid if he raised

only thing calling did was mean that if i did hit he would be putting his stack in with the worst of it

So you would call of all ur chips with A hi?

no but i would call the 925 left to go in with A hi

well if you think you are committed to going all in anyway, you might as well check on the turn given the rag turn card, and you never know he might check through. Better still if you do put him on an overpair, if a picture comes on the river you might be able to knock him off with an all in then.

Given the called on the flop and the turn was another dud, he can't be folding to your all in - which maybe means you lost a bit of leverage you could have used on the river.

i said i was commited to going all in so raising gives me another chance to win which check calling doesnt

Never said he was a limit holdem player, just a limit one. I seem to have him getting several $200 Limit HE cashjes though which are not in that database.

The real question is "why spill off your stack with ace high"? :D

ah because i had him on a nothing hand ie 77 or AQ and thought a call raise preflop and a bet on the flop might make him realise i had a hand

obviously he didnt realise the power of a call raise in PLHE

If they were prior to dec of last year then they will not be listed yet - the new database is completely upto date for every multi table tournament on pokerstars after i think the 13th december 2004. The programmers are gradually working their way back thru the rest of 2004's results so that every tournament is featured as well as keeping it upto date with all the latest tournaments.

either way i think we agree that he is a limit player taking his chances in a pot limit tourney but not adjusting accordingly (though only ironside would be able to confirm if this was how he played the whole time)

Well if he knows you are calling the 925 where is the value in him raising all in??

Surely he is best of calling in the hope that you might check fold on the turn, even if it is a tiny % of the time.


I think he played this hand perfect for a rebuy.

if i bet out on flop with so much in pot there is no way on earth i could check fold on turn

When he calls the turn flop you gotta think he has something, when you miss on the river turn you still bet  ???
 it makes no sense to me, he is always gonna call the river turn cuz he committed himself and what can you beat?

 ;D ;D

went all in on the turn ... no-one bet the river

oh yeah, substitute turn for flop and river for turn...................damn i'm dizzy now.
Done it myself ;D
On the river you only have 13% chance of hitting even less if you thought he had AQ

if he had AQ i didnt need to hit

but the question isnt why fold the 7s obviously he thought his 7s were ahead so the correct play would be to get the chips in when ahead if the turn was an over card could you fold for 925chips in a rebuy event no so get the chips in the middle you got the 3rd best flop you could hope for with 77 (after 77x and 7xx) so get the chips in because you cant make a move and if an over card hits you could be calling the rest of your chips  away behind instead of raising them into the pot ahead

Doh!! what a muppet.

Ahh, i finally see what you mean, all i can think of is he may have wanted to hold some back just in case, but that doesn't make sense cuz he still HAS to call.
Maybe he wanted to make sure you bet into him (do you always bet the flop regardless? he may have noticed).

agree with flushy here... you over played your ak ironside!!! the guy has made a decision and has stuck to it, i play it the same way in the rebuys as i want u to pay me off for the rest of it! because the guy has'nt played how you would of does'nt mean its wrong!

Your learning fish... think you've been watching me too much!

At-iT

ian again i know i have over played my AK

but the result would be the same if he raised or called called as after the flop bet i am commited to the pot

now all that calling is doing is if an face card or ace comes on turn making him decide if his 7s are still good

if you have nothing u will pass for 925, yes? yet if he flat called it tempts you in to trying to fire another bullet! i think he has already decided that he is calling any other bets on the turn/river!

just my opinion i could be wrong as i have never played with you or the other guy, so its an observation from your description and hand records...

At-iT

i would be getting 3-1 to call the 925 so i cant pass as its still in the rebuys stages and unless he has AA or KK then i am only a 3-1 dog

all odds approx

Time for a thread stopper .....


IRONSIDE YOU PLAYED THAT HAND LIKE A FISH !!! :)

Ironside the point is say you had a hand like AJ or KQ etc, if he re-raises on the flop you fold, he wants you in with that edge as rebuys are about chip accumulation, not stack protection.

Ian it is quite worrying that we both play this the same, i will have to change styles now.

no the point is if he reraises i cant fold as i am getting 3-1 for a 3-1 shot in a rebuy tourny

why change.. you might win a comp with more than one table now lol!

i have great chip accumulation, its that protection malarchy i have problems with lol!

Ian

So the ONLY chance he has to win the pot unseen is if you check fold the turn, no matter how small a chance, he has taken it.

As for you Ian, why you little swine.

he has no chance of winning pot unseen its a rebuy event and i have by pot raising flop commited myself to showdown

if i check the flop a bet could of won the pot but i priced myself into seeing the river card by betting out on flop

If a metor happens to smash into your home just after he calls, then you wont be able to call on the turn, thus a chance.

on the flop he's a 78% favourite over your hand... from which the way you played the hand you could be quite easily be but on a hand like that! i'll take those odds!

I agree with my business partners coments earlier... Something like you played it like a fish! Walked into that one flushy by the way, watch ur comments were sharp up north u no!

At-iT

ok i am 4-1 dog

my point isnt how badly i played the hand

its why call the flop when your a 4-1 favourite and your going to get paid

when calling MIGHT leave you a difficult call to make if on the off chance a face or ace hits the board

Why? So he can get a guy with Ace high to bluff off his stack?

but raising would do the same job without the need to be calling when 8/10 an overcard hits the turn

You dont seem to get that he is calling regardless of the turn.

You never heard of a "stop and go"?

fishy flush learn from the master if you have the 7s and your ahead on a perfect flop for you you have to push in while the choice is easy and you know your ahead calling from behind would be a mistake so raise while your ahead

remember this is PL no NL or limit

So when you have AA and the flop comes AA2, someone bets into you, do u raise all in?

no because no matter what the turn is i wont have a hard desion to make

how is he going to have a hard decision?

He will have to call 900 to win thousands, he is already commited, thats the point you dont seem to get. He may aswell cover up the screen as he is calling if you move all in.


This is like banging my head against a brick wall.

i'm also banging my head against my wall!!! ironside ring one of ur pokerschool mates up and ask him!

He's played it well to get ur chips in regardless what hand u hav!!!!

Ian

if he cant see how well the other bloke played his sevens , im cancelling his sponsorship contract .

the point is it was going in regardless right we all agree on that

now at present he is a favourite to win the pot

but if an ace hits or a king he is then calling the rest of his chips as a 20-1 dog on turn instead of the 4-1 favourite he is on flop

FFS ... if he moved all in on the flop, a fish with AK would prob fold... the way he played it was CORRECT to suck as many chips out of you as he could.

yes but if u have a worse hand than ak u may not call the extra 925... therefore he is hoping u put him in on the turn regardless of u getting lucky!

as flushy said earlier, it is about building ur stack... maybe not playing perfect poker!!!

?Ian

the other guy played the 7s badly yes they were the winning hand and yes he got paid by me overplaying the AK but calling on the flop was a huge mistake when he knows he will get paid

in a freezeout where i might have folded to a reraise (to preserve my stack) it might have been a good move to try and get me to commit the rest of my chips but at the risk of having to throw chips in as a dog

I am actually getting wound up.


IF THE MONEY IS GOING TO GO IN ANYWAY, DOES IT MATTER WHEN IT GOES IN!!!!!!!!!! Point is all 5 cards are going to come down!

flush i will conceed to that point

i just think if it was me playing i would want all the chips going in while i am ahead and not having to put the rest in after a scare card has hit

Lmao @ flushy getting wound up ..... i bet you could rip a tissue couldnt you flushy :)   you are far too nice a bloke to get angry lol

But he doesn't KNOW you cant fold. He's probably played people who can fold in this spot. He wants to be sure. So he calls instead of reraising. He obviously willing to risk an overcard in an attempt to get more chips. I don't think he's played it badly at all if I'm honest.

ahhhhhhhhhh

he played it welll!!! its a rebuy! if he makes a mistake then he can buyin, now he has made a decision and it has worked! we make them all the time in this game wrong and right... this one worked!

Ian

i still think if your going to play a small pp in this postion you need to raise

How many times have you raised before the flop and missed, then bet to see where you are (or win it there) and been reraised and folded?
i've done it thousands of times, he kept you in the pot, simple.

Against a good player who wont pass for the remaining 950 I agree. However to be SURE of the opponent getting the 950 in I think the call is best. Especially in a rebuy.

He JUST SHOWED YOU that you don't have to raise in every situation! Well done Baron on joining all those against Ironside!

Champion my ar*e!!!

At-iT

ifm the difference here was because i bet the full pot on flop i was commited to it as anyone with a poker brain should of been

r u trying to say he read me for a fish that might fold?

why cant you just admit that you played your DRAWING HAND badly, and he played his POCKET PAIR well ?

Stubborn git lol

Again this is agreed. He doesn't know you have apoker brain though. You might be Johnny "check raise 2 7" "richer than Bill Gates" "I abuse every person who beats me" Smith. (Or Smithy to his mates)

He doesn't know the first thing about you so he wants to be sure you WILL put them in. By calling he made sure of exactly that.

you had over 3.5k back, how are you committed??
He's commited, that's why he doesn't wanna scare you off!!
It's pretty lonely over there Iron, you should concede defeat on this one mate ;D

a fish that would bluff again!!!

Just admit you were outplayed then we can all get on with our day without banging our heads against the nearest wall!!!

i was commited as he only had 925 chips left

LOL, look at this......guess what happens next ;D ;D

------HAND 5------
Game #837481014: Texas Hold'em No Limit (150/300) - 2005/09/07 - 16:40:46 (GMT)
Table "Tourney 1044957 - 1" Seat 5 is the button.
Seat 1: PHILROCK (1770 in chips)
Seat 3: Tanovich (4370 in chips)
Seat 4: Port_ace (6370 in chips)
Seat 5: dallas#1 (5300 in chips)
Seat 6: Rowlow (14210.20 in chips)
Seat 7: ifmcf (9140 in chips)
Seat 8: fatboy65 (10830 in chips)
Seat 9: Mister74 (3535 in chips)
Seat 10: bosh (4400 in chips)
Rowlow: posts small blind 150
ifmcf: posts big blind 300
----- HOLE CARDS -----
dealt to ifmcf [Ah Kh]
fatboy65: folds
Mister74: folds
bosh: folds
PHILROCK: calls 300
Tanovich: folds
Port_ace: folds
dallas#1: folds
Rowlow: calls 150
ifmcf: raises to 900
PHILROCK: calls 600
Rowlow: folds
----- FLOP ----- [2c Th 9s]
ifmcf: bets 900
PHILROCK: is all-in 870
Returned uncalled bets 30 to ifmcf
----- TURN ----- [2c Th 9s][7c]
----- RIVER ----- [2c Th 9s 7c][Qs]
----- SHOW DOWN -----
ifmcf: shows [Ah Kh] (High Card Ace)

loses to A7?

i reckon 8 J beat him

I'll take him losing to AQ in the sweepstake.

pocket 77 has to be!

i'm tearing bluesq up today!!!!

told flushy i would this morning... it must be after not watching anything ironside did last night lol!!!

At-iT

Loses to AQ?

A sausage lands on the table?

i am doing quite the opposite Ian!! near bubble in 1 comp, and on stars exited the 10 rebuy last 60 with AK vs AK for a monster pot.

Infact pokercharts tells me i am.........

Streak: $-1800.20 L22  - I am on a 22 session losing streak for a total of $-1800.20 over 6 days.

Pretty good loss for someone who doesnt play cash!!!

i'm up +$1200 today had five rebuys in a comp and knocked out with 20left... i'm liking this short handed cash! very tastey playing a stg to slow down before i go to win the comp tonight!

Ian

Oh and Kev thats more why i am annoyed than some Scott not knowing when he got kippered.

maybe if you reraised with the 7s on that flop you wouldnt be on such a bad streak

Maybe....

Meow

example of what i am talking about a raise by him here would have me forced to call for sheer pot odds while he is favourite instead he was forced to call the last of his chips as a dog

PokerStars Game #2519889714: Tournament #12053729, Hold'em No Limit - Level IV (50/100) - 2005/09/07 - 13:30:25 (ET)
Table '12053729 7' Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: Ironside (2225 in chips)
Seat 2: betterdayzz (1955 in chips)
Seat 3: DABADESTCHIC (980 in chips)
Seat 4: MeltonOk (1855 in chips)
Seat 5: basielV (905 in chips)
Seat 6: skilly (3000 in chips)
Seat 7: Catembeau (3305 in chips)
Seat 8: don060243 (855 in chips)
Seat 9: jubub (2625 in chips)
don060243: posts small blind 50
jubub: posts big blind 100
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Ironside [Qh Kd]
Ironside: calls 100
betterdayzz: folds
DABADESTCHIC: folds
MeltonOk: folds
basielV: calls 100
skilly: folds
Catembeau: calls 100
don060243: calls 50
jubub: checks
*** FLOP *** [7d Th 9s]
don060243: checks
jubub: checks
Ironside: bets 400
basielV: calls 400
Catembeau: folds
don060243: folds
jubub: calls 400
*** TURN *** [7d Th 9s] [Kc]
jubub: checks
Ironside: bets 1725 and is all-in
basielV: calls 405 and is all-in
jubub: folds
*** RIVER *** [7d Th 9s Kc] [6s]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Ironside: shows [Qh Kd] (a pair of Kings)
basielV: shows [Jd Td] (a pair of Tens)
Ironside collected 2510 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 2510 | Rake 0
Board [7d Th 9s Kc 6s]
Seat 1: Ironside showed [Qh Kd] and won (2510) with a pair of Kings
Seat 2: betterdayzz folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: DABADESTCHIC folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: MeltonOk folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: basielV showed [Jd Td] and lost with a pair of Tens
Seat 6: skilly folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: Catembeau (button) folded on the Flop
Seat 8: don060243 (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 9: jubub (big blind) folded on the Turn

maybe he was worried about the players behind him,

By the time the turn comes he has a double gutter and a pair. So the situation has changed.

but if your calling the bet your commiting yourself to the pot u cant fold to a reraise behind you

so it should be all in or fold basic poker IMHO

Was this also during a rebuy stage?

yes

Again, if he knows he's going all the way with it, him putting his chips in KNOWING that yours are in now is no terrible thing. Same move - didn't work this time. Either way you win the pot. He just wants to be 100% sure he gets full value for his stack.

So who's right on this one?  :D

the blonde poker champ

hehe.

My head still hurts from reading this thread.

So many echos.  :D

i am the blonde poker champ cause i know how to play pocket 7s on a rag flop and these PROS dont IMHO

What have you (re)started Snoopster? :-X

First time I've read this thread.

Don't mean to restart any arguments, but...


FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!

 8)

Lol!

What do you think of the original post then Snoop?

talk to the hand as the face aint listening

ironside played it like a mug... as the from thine would say!!!

i admit i played the hand wrong with the AK but the 77 played it worse

Why do u think the 77 played it wrong?

Or "worse"

because he should of reraised as it was a rebuy event knowing that any decent player would call with the 2 overs

otherwise he would 9/10 be calling a raise on turn with an overcard to his 7s

I suppose that's why he flatcalled then.  ;)

This statement is inaccurate as he knows nothing about you. "Knowing" implies 100% certainty of something which he cannot have in this case.