why call on flop here ?

[redsimon]

Funnily enough TigersCream is one of the better Limit Tourny players there. Seems a real "limit" call

i wouldnt say one of the better players for hold-em but he does tend to play limit poker. Of his 25 cashes on pokerstars in mtt's 24 of them were in limit poker and only 1 in N/L. but of those 24 limit cashes 16 were in 7 card stud and only 8 in hold-em

so my guess would be that he's not a very good no-limit hold-em player and cant figure out whether he's in front or behind and would just call you down with any kind of hand.

Never said he was a limit holdem player, just a limit one. I seem to have him getting several $200 Limit HE cashjes though which are not in that database.

[redsimon]

PokerStars Game #2507603309: Tournament #12053612, Hold'em Pot Limit - Level II (15/30) - 2005/09/05 - 20:44:12 (ET)
Table '12053612 3' Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: e4f9j3l3 (1655 in chips)
Seat 2: Dunsurv (4605 in chips)
Seat 3: Ironside (5025 in chips)
Seat 4: crip17 (1685 in chips)
Seat 5: jford (5800 in chips)
Seat 6: onogod (3165 in chips)
Seat 7: TigerScream (2275 in chips)
Seat 8: BOSS HOGG (1240 in chips)
Seat 9: Annette (1410 in chips)
Annette: posts small blind 15
e4f9j3l3: posts big blind 30
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Ironside [As ]
Dunsurv said, "then why the bet"
Dunsurv said, "mmmmmmm"
Dunsurv: folds
Ironside: calls 30
crip17: raises 60 to 90
jford: folds
onogod: folds
TigerScream: calls 90
BOSS HOGG: folds
Annette: folds
e4f9j3l3: folds
Annette re-buys and receives 1500 chips for $20.00
Ironside: raises 315 to 405
crip17: folds
TigerScream: calls 315
*** FLOP *** [ ]
Ironside: bets 945
TigerScream: calls 945
*** TURN *** [ ] []
Ironside: bets 2835
TigerScream: calls 925 and is all-in
*** RIVER *** [ ] []
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Ironside: shows [As ] (two pair, Sixes and Threes)
TigerScream: shows [ ] (two pair, Sevens and Sixes)
TigerScream collected 4685 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 4685 | Rake 0
Board [ ]
Seat 1: e4f9j3l3 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: Dunsurv folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: Ironside showed [As ] and lost with two pair, Sixes and Threes
Seat 4: crip17 folded before Flop
Seat 5: jford folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: onogod folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: TigerScream showed [ ] and won (4685) with two pair, Sevens and Sixes
Seat 8: BOSS HOGG (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: Annette (small blind) folded before Flop


the guy calls on the flop here surely he must know he has to raise all in there is no way i can fold on flop or turn and if the turn is an AK he cant fold and has to put the rest of his chips in as a dog

if he has me on an overpair what is he calling for
if he has me on overcards surely he has to get his chips in as a favourite

The real question is "why spill off your stack with ace high"?

[Ironside]

ah because i had him on a nothing hand ie 77 or AQ and thought a call raise preflop and a bet on the flop might make him realise i had a hand

obviously he didnt realise the power of a call raise in PLHE

[matt674]

Never said he was a limit holdem player, just a limit one. I seem to have him getting several $200 Limit HE cashjes though which are not in that database.

If they were prior to dec of last year then they will not be listed yet - the new database is completely upto date for every multi table tournament on pokerstars after i think the 13th december 2004. The programmers are gradually working their way back thru the rest of 2004's results so that every tournament is featured as well as keeping it upto date with all the latest tournaments.

either way i think we agree that he is a limit player taking his chances in a pot limit tourney but not adjusting accordingly (though only ironside would be able to confirm if this was how he played the whole time)

[Royal Flush]

Well if he knows you are calling the 925 where is the value in him raising all in??

Surely he is best of calling in the hope that you might check fold on the turn, even if it is a tiny % of the time.


I think he played this hand perfect for a rebuy.

[Ironside]

if i bet out on flop with so much in pot there is no way on earth i could check fold on turn

[ifm]

ah because i had him on a nothing hand ie 77 or AQ and thought a call raise preflop and a bet on the flop might make him realise i had a hand

obviously he didnt realise the power of a call raise in PLHE

When he calls the turn flop you gotta think he has something, when you miss on the river turn you still bet 
 it makes no sense to me, he is always gonna call the river turn cuz he committed himself and what can you beat?

 

[Colchester Kev]

went all in on the turn ... no-one bet the river

[ifm]

oh yeah, substitute turn for flop and river for turn...................damn i'm dizzy now.
Done it myself
On the river you only have 13% chance of hitting even less if you thought he had AQ

[Ironside]

if he had AQ i didnt need to hit

but the question isnt why fold the obviously he thought his were ahead so the correct play would be to get the chips in when ahead if the turn was an over card could you fold for 925chips in a rebuy event no so get the chips in the middle you got the 3rd best flop you could hope for with 77 (after 77x and 7xx) so get the chips in because you cant make a move and if an over card hits you could be calling the rest of your chips  away behind instead of raising them into the pot ahead

[ifm]

if he had AQ i didnt need to hit

Doh!! what a muppet.

Ahh, i finally see what you mean, all i can think of is he may have wanted to hold some back just in case, but that doesn't make sense cuz he still HAS to call.
Maybe he wanted to make sure you bet into him (do you always bet the flop regardless? he may have noticed).

[Gamblor21]

agree with flushy here... you over played your ak ironside!!! the guy has made a decision and has stuck to it, i play it the same way in the rebuys as i want u to pay me off for the rest of it! because the guy has'nt played how you would of does'nt mean its wrong!

Your learning fish... think you've been watching me too much!

At-iT

[Ironside]

ian again i know i have over played my AK

but the result would be the same if he raised or called called as after the flop bet i am commited to the pot

now all that calling is doing is if an face card or ace comes on turn making him decide if his are still good

[Gamblor21]

if you have nothing u will pass for 925, yes? yet if he flat called it tempts you in to trying to fire another bullet! i think he has already decided that he is calling any other bets on the turn/river!

just my opinion i could be wrong as i have never played with you or the other guy, so its an observation from your description and hand records...

At-iT

[Ironside]

i would be getting 3-1 to call the 925 so i cant pass as its still in the rebuys stages and unless he has AA or KK then i am only a 3-1 dog

all odds approx