blonde poker forum

i hope people are honest in this other wise its like a broken pencil




POINTLESS

THANKS ALL

What do you define as a lot?

in your case a tenner lol

naaa maybee £1k-£2k a week

I've been playing a year, deposited $55, my current roll is over $1500, and I've withdrawn $1200.
I believe under 2% of online players are longterm winners, and it may be less than 1%.

 :tikay:

i have never funded poker thru my own money

i wont a few $s in a freeroll and then built it up

i was over 8k

in the last 2 years somethings gone wrong with my game and i have lost about 5k of it

so overall i am winning but recently i am a loser

I'm behind.

I only started playing 18 months ago however.

I look at the losses I've incurred as my 'education fees'.

If I'm still behind 18 months from now then maybe
I'll scale down the amount of cash I spend on the game.


 Td Th

Based on how many hours play?

i dunno guys maybee its just me thinking ,but i know i can go into my casino and for most in there i could say if there winners or losers and i know they wouldnt mind being called a loser (not in a nasty way mind)but they know if they are winners or losers okokokok sometimes they might cut a deal at the final table but 95%in my opininon are losers sorry if yall dont like the truth but i speak as i find and i dont lie,,unless im in a game the i lie like f--k but that dont count lol

Overall I am a loser.  I just can't resist the urge to play beyond my BR.  I think if I just stuck to the levels I can beat, then I would be a winner.  But I let visions of being interviewed by Courtney Friel after winning a WPT title cloud my judgement. I always try to get the big score and bypass the small limit games.  I think I have the same problem in this respect as Scottish Dave. He has mentioned something similar to this before

thanks for standing up and being honest m8 ,theres nothing wrong with losing so long as it dont get you into to much trouble you should play this game as fun and enjoy playing like if you went for a night out on beer and curry £50 ok good night out and you might win a bit i think this game is starting to go to peoples heads  wd tins thnx

If people haven't kept detailed records (either on or offline), it's difficult for them to know if they are winners or losers.  I'd guess that more people who fail to keep records are losers than winners.

No evidence, but I'd hazard a guess that online players keep a better record of their profit and loss.

I think "I know I'm in front" is going to be the option of choice for anyone who believe they make a consistent profit - at any level - since it seems to tempt variance rather less than "I win lots"! :D

Which categories do we want to see here?

1 - I make a professional income at poker ( i.e. high stakes + long term winner)

2 - I am wealthy, play high stakes but have to reload my online account / boost my bankroll with wage money regularly (i.e. high stakes + long term loser)

3 - I play generally recreationally, but I keep good records, learn what I can and expect to win (i.e. small stakes + long term winner)

4 - I play small stakes, can't really seem to get anywhere, but what the hell! it's just for fun anyway (i.e. small stakes + long term loser)

Even labelling poll categories as such would be a radical oversimplification of the motives and behaviour patterns of poker players.

 :goodpost:

Number 3 for me please.

ive only been playing for the last 18 months and have no accurate records for what ive spent to what ive won. dont really have the desire to build an online bankroll. i dont play for a living so when ive had a big cash or nice mtt win(for my level) for say £1k or £2k i cash out and leave  £100/200 to play with , on the rare occasion i lose that ill put 100 back in and play with that. the biggest single win ive had is for winning the 10k game on w/hill for just ova £3k

for the first 6 months i didnt win anything atall. 

my cousin russ is a high stakes player from seattle, through him after losing for that time i asked for his help and he taught me alot. since then ive only had a couple of losing months.

theres a club in glasgow i play (not cincins) who keep records for every player who plays a tourney. they are mainly £5 re-buy comps. after 60ish tourneys ive won about £3k and spent just ova £1k so theres a profit there

overall as a guess im up about £9k-10K for the time ive been playing

I have put down i know im in front as the winning alot definition of 1k-2k is just out of my range.

If you think about 1k a week is 52k a year the equivalent of a 90k a yr job when you take into account that poker is non taxable. It is quite possible to be a professional and earn less than that.

Myself being an example, I earn more than i would probably would in any other job i could currently get.

I am number 3 by I' Zimbra's definition. I don't keep records but i haven't had to reload for over a year.

I only play tourneys, two reasons really; 1st, i feel that playing cash is just trying to take cash from people and is slightly pointless (in a competitive sense) and 2nd, It is easy to manage your bankroll when you know exactly how much you are going to lose in any given tournament (well except rebuys of course). I think if i played cash, i would have had to reload a few times because of drunken internet sessions.

OK, inclucing EVENT tickets won - I am way up online, and live to for that matter.

However, not playing for a living, I too have the tendency to sometimes play above my roll (with withdrawing plenty, has left me to go "broke" online 3 times now) - especially live. By this I mean, if I want to play a £500 event, and I have £500 spare, then I will go and play it - prime example being recently at Brighton.

The times I have gone "broke" (online) has (I think) been down to "variance" - coupled with playing above my roll.

I am a recreational player in that I play for luxuries, NOT necessities - so bankroll management is my weakest link.

Good thread btw.

play to supplement income ie part time- have won more than my day job pays so far this year (did the same last year too). I keep records of all games so know this is 100% accurate. Mian thing- I enjoy playing and wouldnt play otherwise- but also enjoyed the caribean holiday, new car new garden etc. I now know that July/ august are not good months for me- prob because am on holiday during both months.

still enjoy my day job(s) though.....

mmmmmmmmmm im not sure

I started to play poker as a pastime and played $1 crapshoots for years loosing LOADS but thought of it as a hobby that I could afford.

Since joining Blonde my game improved by loads and I moved up to the $5 which I found I could play and WIN.

After building up a nice bankroll (by my standards) I tried more higher stake stts, mtts and cash and blew the bleedin lot.

I am now trying to get back on track coz I know im good enough to win at the $5 level and I will be more cautious this time before I move up.

I have to admit though I broke my promise to myself tonight and "borrowed" £20 from neteller to play in the $1k on blonde......you can only play so many $1/2 stts before you go mad or give up.

I was DESPERATE for a decent game but what a nightmare........I was playing like a $1 player at the start before I gave myself a good slap.

I managed to make the $$ and dispite my 4 rebuys I left $100 up.......so $5 tables here I come.

I am definatly a loser up to now but I hope to win it all back 1 day and more important I know I can.

Question        I am one of those sad gits that keeps everything and have all my bank statements for the last umpteen years........should I count up how much I have lost in the past?

One part of me says NO its money gone...another part of me would love to know and then 1 day when I get it all back I can pat myself on the back and say bloody well done!!

Decided to tick win sometimes

I have lost so far $15k.   My game is so bad, but I have money to burn and I believe  that one day I will learn how to play and will win back my loses. I like having fun at poker tables, and money don't matter to me. Sometimes I win sometimes I lose, 
It is better to lose it at poker tables then in the bars.  I don't take drugs/drink alcohol/i don't shop so poker is the hobby I decided to spend my money on.

I treat this as a hobby and don't have problems with the fact that I lose.  I am sure one day I will win it back, if only my luck would change.....

After the previous thread on the same subject i thought i would find out for sure how i stand overall, i requested deposits and withdrawals details for my 4 main accounts. So far i have received 2 back, on one i am a few k in front without including seats won (this would put me well over 20k in front) and i have had this account for about a year and 4 months.

On another which is connected to sportsbook it took me a while to break it down (against money used for other gambling from the same account) but thanks to several big scores i am 7k to the good on withdrawals against deposits, i have played poker on that account for a little over 2 years.

Although i don't keep records for live as i consider it a luxury and play when i feel like or have the spare cash, on a rough estimation i put myself a few K ahead on tournaments and showing a reasonable but not massive profit on live cash games.

I don't play for a living although i would love to. If i get a large bankroll going i tend to withdraw large chunks and buy myself something or live the high life for a while but have a problem where i don't dropdown at this point to a sensible level and spunk the rest trying to get another big score quickly.

I also tend not to build slowly, i just keep a float up from stts and cash games and keep entering tourneys as i feel or as i sattelite into them and keep doing this till i have a good run.

Good thread.

2004: http://www.thepokerdb.com/pokerstars/player.php?id=3929&startMonth=01&startDay=1&startYear=2004&endMonth=12&endDay=31&endYear=2004&submit=Search

Ended the year with a good profit, an excellent start to the year (unfortunately not covered in the site) gave me the bankroll to pick and choose which tournaments i wanted to play and with no expenses such as hotels and travel to worry about playing online the year ended profitable. Used some of the money to play a few festival events at Blackpool and the Vic without much success.

2005: http://www.thepokerdb.com/pokerstars/player.php?id=3929&startMonth=01&startDay=1&startYear=2005&endMonth=12&endDay=31&endYear=2005&submit=Search

Slightly better year results wise especially with the WSOP package added as well but not as much profit as the previous year. Still ended the year well in the black but unfortunately by using up most of my holiday entitlement going to Vegas for the WSOP it meant i didnt play any live festival events during the year.

2006: http://www.thepokerdb.com/pokerstars/player.php?id=3929&startMonth=01&startDay=1&startYear=2006&endMonth=12&endDay=31&endYear=2006&submit=Search

Year got off to a bad start and lost a fair chunk of the bankroll during first 3 months of year, started playing lower levels till getting some good consistent cashes then managed to get things back slightly on track with the odd good result in april and may. Also won package to WSOP main event during april but decided to stop playing online end of june and july in build up to going to Vegas and withdrew my remaining bankroll from pokerstars. Since returning from Vegas i havent played as many of the big tourneys as i did in the past, a change in personal circumstances means that i haven't made a big deposit into my online account in an attempt to try and build a decent bankroll back. Trying to build it gradually by playing at lower levels but without much success at the moment - overall this year i'm down if you dont include the $13000 package i won for $33 as i didnt cash in the WSOP but then the memories were well worth it!!

Overall since i started playing i'm well in profit even though my online bankroll is now next to nothing, the profit i've made in the past i've done silly things like investing in property and stuff. i'm going to have to go back to being a reckless monkey again who puts gambling first one day - but it will probably be next year.............

Been playing 15 months, purely online.

Was a losing player first 7 months (-£1.6k), and break even (give or take a couple of hundred pounds). for next 5 months.

Started keeping better records (i.e. for every table / tourney played as opposed to just P&L) 3 months ago, and am now making a profit.

£1.6k up for STT's, £0.4k up cash, and £0.5k down MTT's.
Was £1.9k down in cash games after 7 weeks, but better records helped me plug a few glaring holes in my game.

My weakness is MTT's, in that I love playing them (particularly Sunday night jobbies) but I am absolutely woeful.
However, similar to some previous posts, as I am not trying to do this as a job, I reserve the right to have as much fun as I can (and to bring pleasure and amusement to others!!).

Jak.

Nope, not silly in my view.  You have something that will increase in value with property.  That is sensible, it is better buying property than spending it on female monkeys and buying all your monkey friends banana milkshakes everytime you see them.  Not many people have two houses at 31 or 32 yrs old like you do.

But i'm a gambler, its in my blood!! I'm not supposed to be doing things like this i'm supposed to be living life on the edge not knowing where or when the money for my next bet will appear!!

Playing poker has taught me good bankroll management though so i dont think i could ever go back to "good old days"  :D

Quite soon though i'll have to put the money towards something else - but thats for another post in the not too distant future.............

marriage?   moving overseas?   mass monkey cloning project to take over the World?    Setting up an antiques business?   You are taking your shot at being a golf pro on the American tour? 

These all cost money.  Am I on the right path?

sell the 2nd house Matt, & go & play the High Stakes game!!!

Having a modest bankroll can be no fun.

But it's much closer to a barrell of laughs than having no roll whatsoever. Stick to yer guns Matt  :)up

I'm slightly up. If I add up my accounts, it's certainly way more than I'd ever have deposited simply because I don't have that much spare cash. I only play for small money though.  One day I'd like to be almost at pro level.  I'd probably never give up my business unless I win the main event or something like that, but I'd like to be playing for serious money on a regular basis.

No - not found anyone desperate enough to say yes

No - even though i do miss the Hot and Humid jungle at times

No - Thats going to happen anyway, the primate world takeover project doesn't need any financial help from me

No - Antique bananas don't go down too well

No - Though maybe once i sort out the consistency of hitting the ball straight every time i'll think about it


Unfortunately the house is bringing in more of an income than my attempts to cash regularly at the lower mtt levels!!  :D


It isn't too far off having no roll whatsoever to be honest. Have talked it through with BigArmo and i reckon if i stuck $5k back into the bankroll and went back to playing the $50 rebuys etc on a regular basis it wouldn't be long before the decent cashes came rolling back in.

Maybe i'll win the blondepokerleagueIII and that will be the catalyst to bigger and better things - how much was the bounty on your head again?  :D

25 knicker

Anyone who manages to scalp my tight-weak ass deserves it.

havent a clue, and to be honest, dont really care.

love playing....and of course love winning.

I dont have a bankroll, all my tournament entries and stakes come out of my own pocket....and of course then go and blow any winnings on fripperies and junk :)

maybe i should have a bankroll...what do the experts think ?

very suprising results at moment.

11% reckon they win over a £1000 a week! come on guys stop kidding yourself. not doubting that some earn good money on here but £1000 a week week in week out is hard to do.100% i doubt it.

It's not 11% of the country we're talking about here. It's 8 blondies.

Entirely possible.

11% of blondites who mentioned the country?

we will see if this figure falls as more vote.

will be interesting

That's like polling a group of athletes and asking who can run the 100m in under 11.5 seconds.

8 folk say yes, they're probably telling the truth.

It's only $100k p/annum, entirely possible for a few cash game players and MTTers here.
Even a fish like me can get round about halfway if he's lucky.

Ooh, and I can do the 50m in 11.5 seconds too. :) So I guess I'm halfway to the Linford club too.

wouldnt that be  427

any half decent 2/4 player (not me yet unfortunately) should be able to earn $100K+ a year including RB and bonuses.

Booder makes the point better.

of those polled ffs why do people rip whatever u write? if u read the whole lot and look at the poll ul c what im saying and would feel the need to point out and correct me.

well done to those 8 11% or whatever you want to call them. most impressive  :respect:

I think you miss the point we're trying to make turny.

Obviously you're talking about the sample of those polled, but we're trying to underline that the sample is very small. Talking in terms of %s will give you silly meaningless numbers in small polls.

The point is, of the 8 people, it's very possible none of them are telling fibs.

fair enough tank just would hate to think some of them are kidding themselves or are reading the crireria for the winning alot choice.

and as i say will be interesting to see how this percentage fluctuates as more people vote

i have voted for....................i am losing a lot

i just made it 9

and i voted with the masses

nice one pab  :)up that i believe

come on then whose the other 8?

bout time you updated your travel blog

Not really travelled anywhere exciting, lol,  I would have added vegas trip but i did that for the blonde main site!

you saying Dublin was not exciting ?

yes but im going back to dublin 3 times in the next 4 weeks, cant make a blog entry for everyone

why not ?          if flushy can make the effort then im sure you can. you dont want to be outdone by him, do you ?

ps.........you could make some stuff up    :)up

I've been keeping detailed records since Sept 04 and started with $40 playing 1/2 fixed limit.  Over that period I have been a long term winning player and built up a decent bankroll.  However in terms of returns for the amount of time put in it doesn't add up to very much.  My PokerTracker stats average 1.3 BB/100 over 49k hands (covering the last year) which at 5/10 limit works out at around $8/hr according to PokerTracker. 

Over the last 3 months I started playing $100 NL and was doing great for the first 5k hands (up around $800) but the wheels came off and I was quickly back to break even.  The problem for me was not that I was losing but that I was unable to maintain any decent winning level.  The ups were cancelled out by the downs and I was left with a small profit but not enough return to justify the amount of time I was spending playing poker.

After having the usual downswing after a cashout, I got fed up and decided to cash out a good portion of my bankroll and treat myself to a new stonkingly quick PC.  My intention was to start again with a modest bankroll at a lower limit (fixed, having abandoned NL) and try to build it up again.  Unfortunately for me on my first session back after a break from Poker I managed to lose half my remaining bankroll in one session at 2/4 (my biggest ever session loss in terms of BB).  Since then I have dropped down limits but have had 2 more losing sessions and am in danger of losing it all.  Serves me right for cashing out !!

I'm sure there are people making money out of Poker but only the very best can make a decent living at it.  For me I am going to play more MTT's and try to enjoy the game rather than treat it a money making exercise.

How come there is no "eeking out a living putting in 80+ hours a week which feels better than working" option ?

That would have got my vote  ;D

are you eeking out a living putting in 80+ hours a week Ralph ?

I voted as one of the 8. I don't make that consistently because its tourneys I win at, so its quite sporadic. Also I am considerably down in cash cames, due to several drunken high stakes games and I'm rubbish at cash games at the best of times, it would be more if it wasn't for these donk offs.

I'm guessing you don't multitable?

so are you saying overall taking into consideration the swings and your donking off in cash games your at least £52,000 up overall on the year?

Overall I know I'm up.

Started playing online last December, with some outstanding beginner's luck won my 1st mtt within a week, and had 10 final tables in my 1st 3 weeks. was up prob $600-700 in that time. From then till August, had the occasional victory but nothing too seriously good. Prob lost in the region of $100-150 a month in that time.

Started to play more thoughtfully and seriously in August, in which I had some time off.. and after 2 weeks of playing 2/3/4 table games learnt quite a lot about myself. Since then I'm up just over $1k, which considering most of the time the most I spend on an mtt is $12 ( with VERY occasional $25) I think is fairly decent.

Offline, I only started playing in August, played 5 times and placed 3, inc 3rd my 1st ever time ( tho in last 3 vs hubby n wife combo)

I'm happy to divulge my approx results

Ok I haven't worked it out exactly £ per week but since Jan (how many weeks 40ish?) my results are

Online MTT   $59,500
Online STT   $8,000
Online Cash   $-32,000 (embarrassing!!!)
Live MTT      $40,500
Live cash      $600

Overall         $76,000 approx

So whilst this is in $$$ not £££ its in that sort of ball park

nice one woodsey and thanks for divulging  :respect:


just a little advice in case you cant spot the weakness, stay off the online cash tables lol  ;)

I know its embarrasing. Just to clarify that a bit further, I'm up on the 2/4 and 3/6nl games I ocassionally play the problem occurs after a substantial tourney win when I leave the money in the accounts and come back pissed from the pub and decided its a good idea to play 25/50nl. I can pinpoint 3 drunken sessions over which I lost $25k!!!

I know your thinking fecking hell what an idiot, just think how I felt!!!!l

Siiiiiiiiiiccccccckkkkkk

ouch!!!

always seems to happen to most players i know after a nice mtt win you never seem to win at cash although yours seems to be more alcohol enduced loses  :(

again thanks woodsey for the figures and good luck in future drunken cash games ul need it !  ;)

I use the following system to play online cash. I am a winning player consistantly and am 100% sure that any player can also be if they have the discipline. An average month would be $35,000 profit.
1. Only play one game on 1 site to maximise my information(NL hold'em in my case)
2. I play 4-8 tables, to avoid playing too many hands from £10-20 to £40-80 6 or 10 handed
3. I use Poker Tracker to review key stats such as % calls (bad) and £variance V players
4. I play 18 hours per week on average (ideally 6 x 3 hour sessions)
5. I play weekends and 11pm - 2am weekdays
6. I always sit down with at least 60BB
7. I will never risk > 5% of my bankroll on any table
8. I will not play on a table where there are not at least 2 fish
9. I will be careful what position I sit (want to have position on callings stations, and the opposite V aggressive players)
10. I will rarely call any bet on any street, raise or pass

For example, if you have a bankroll of 6,000, the maximum pull up per table is £300. Therefore, the biggest table you can play is £2-5 (ie. 60bb). 
If you lose £1,000, your maximum pull up is £250, and the biggest table you can play is £1-2.
To move up from £2-5 to £5-10, you would have to pull up a min of £600 and have increased your bankroll to £12,000.

This would mean that to play the £40-£80 NL on Crypto, every good player should have a minimum online ONLY (not used for any other expenditure) bankroll of £96,000 and be pulling up a max of £4,800. An average player may need nearer £200,000 just to breakeven in my view.

Everytime I get clever and deviate from this SYSTEM my swings get too big and I am just gambling.

Hope this helps. Rob

Cheers, i'm gonna save that.

I have answered - i think I'm behind

I am not actually sure as i dont keep acurate notes and I am not that interested.

i know at one point I was had reached $4k as a bank roll, (from MTT wins) I would guess that this was maybe $2.5k up. I then went on a "I am a Poker God"  (to misquote Richard Hammond (v happy he is well)) trip and played lots of $50 Poker stars 8pm MTT's, way too many $100 Blue Square $3.5k gteed's and generally burnt it down to not a lot fairly quickly.

As I coasted to flame out i quit the big games, and just wasted a few buyins (or maybe more) to PS, FT or Blonde on buyins for my fav MTT's, the PS $30 deep stacks, or any league event (BP, or THM).

Currently i am playing cash PLO, I know that it doubles the variance but i am doing well and feeling good, Mtt's are breaking even at the moment, but I am confident.

I play for fun so i dont play to bank roll rules, while i am up I will chase the limit I am at, its -ve value but I have the disipline to not buyin to these higher limits, just to ride the wave while i am here.

I aim to cash out shortly to buy a 19 inch widescreen dell laptop, and then revert to the $10 & $20 stt's I am used to.

There is a great thread on 2+2 about a guy who goes from to $400 to $70k and back to the floor (it is assumed or somewhere near) he kept his roll going to play with the "stars". I will not go anywhere near that, but I am up to $2k and will edge up further before cashing out.

Winning is good but i have no issusions about my ability, I am going to keep to the small limit Mtt's (otherewise way too much variance), STT's at a level i can win at, and cash PLO,  that the other two allow me to play.  I am terrible at playing cash with "my own money" (as i play scared) so playing with winnings is much easier - it does not feel like mine if i lose.

[edit - any money i do pay with {lose} does not affect the way i live, it is extra]

Correct, no more than two tables and usually one, and the hours do vary from about 30 to 80 p/w.

Woodesy?

Wanna go for a beer any time ?!?  ;goodvevil; lol

Seriously m8, great results!!

I'm scared you might get me pissed and then ask me to play high stakes cash with you!!!

Well 80+ hours may well be an exaggeration, and if I'm honest I have had trouble making ends meet this year although I am well up and a fairly consistent winner in the long term online. My overheads have been hard to sustain due to my expensive taste and hedonistic tendencies.

wow upto 14.4% now we either have some seriously clever guys on here or some real dreamers rotflmfao

the £1000+ per week gang
so far we have woodsey, rob yong and pab so whose the others?

Although not at the moment as bankroll restrictions mean i am not playing at the levels where i can currently continue to win as much as i have in the past overall in the past 3 years i have made enough profit to warrant me choosing that option. ended up +$86000 for 2004, +$64000 for 2005 but currently down -$5000 for 2006 (not including the 2x$13000 WSOP packages)

Maybe i missed the post earlier defining the meanings of the options in the poll but doesnt the option just say "i'm winning lots" it doesnt mention specific amount. To somebody who doesnt play that regularly and only at small levels then "lots" may well only be $100 here and there. Rather than give specific amounts in a monetary sense wouldnt it be better if this figure is a percentage of your bankroll or usual buy-in of tournament/cash game?

Therefore if you've increased your bankroll by 300-500% then you are winning lots
If you've increased your bankroll by 100-300% then you are winning
If you've increased your bankroll by 1-100% then you are infront
If you've lost upto your initial bankroll then you are slighlty behind
If you've lost upto 3 times your initial bankroll then you are behind
If you've lost more than 3 times your initial bankroll then you can never win

This way at least all the options offered in the poll can relate to everyone no matter how small stakes or how regularly you play.

You are looking at it all wrong, it is 13 out of 3884 members and actually 13 out of those willing to vote at all.
I do not find it difficult to believe that 13 people can make that sort of money, i could probably name 10 immediately.

exactly what im saying matt.

some who voted may have read sofa kings criteria wrong.
taking it literally by this you dont fit the criteria but you voted this way.

i accept your point and using your criteria a number of other people including myself wouldve ticked the same box.

by the way nice figures lets hope this years just a blitch   ;goodluck;

Poker is relative to everyones own personal goals.

By asking the question "do you win lots at poker - but it has to be over $1000 a week" you are excluding probably 95% of the forum from being able to answer it as they currently do not play at levels where achieving that figure is possible.

By asking "Do you win lots at poker - have you more than tripled your bankroll" you allow everyone to answer the question.

ifm we done this 13/3884 point already.its 14.4% of those voted which in my opinion is to high.

i could probably name more than 10 easily to but thats not my point. i bet if you name 10 i doubt you will find more than 3/4 of them have actually voted.

matt just admitted he voted that way but if you look at his figures he doesnt fit sofa-kings criteria for voting in that catagory im just wondering how many others have done the same

exactly my point again matt.

i found it hard to believe that 14.4% of those voted won over £1000 on average.
im sure if you worded it the way you put it the figure wouldve been substantially higher but it wasnt so i feel my doubting of the 14.4% is justified.

It also doesnt take into account the usual standard of living of the person in question. I've made $145,000 profit roughly in the last 3 years playing poker. This means i've increased my income per week by 150% on top of my earnings in my current profession, to me this is huge! The differences in my lifestyle now to what they were 5 years ago are unbelieveable when i look back at things. To me this is something that you can't put a specific monetary figure on as $1000 a week to me is probably a lot different than $1000 a week to someone like Rob. (apologies Rob, i know the point i'm trying to make but failing miserably - no offence meant).

The poll is flawed.  That's the problem.

Look at Matt's winnings.  It can't be argued that he's not been winning a lot.

If the options aren't right, and the criteria behind the options aren't clearly defined, then the results are going to be pretty meaningless - even if people are 100% honest when they select the one they think best fits them.

I think that people who aren't winning aren't going to want to tick a box admitting as much, whereas people who are winning are more than happy to tick a box saying so. Basically your sample doesn't represent the whole.

This does happen to a lot of players. A current topic of conversation on high stakes messageboards is 'How long will it take Jeff Madsen to lose all his WSOP winnings playing Ivey et al at 1k/2k Omaha on Full Tilt?'

i did

You are very honest with yourself (and us, tx).

ok guys maybee i put up some wrong options maybee i might word it diffrent in a few weeks ,,try again sort of,but still im finding what i do see hard to belive imho

They do say that a sign of a player who has a lot of potential is one who can admit they're down.

I did, but need updating, since last post I lost another 5k, this time half was on rulette, half on Omaha Hi-Low, so now I am $20K down.


That's good to know, so maybe I will win eventually,
perhaps I should stop playing the roulette and omaha Hi-Low, as in the latter I lost 2 k on one hand,

Not trying to be provocative but if you're down so much, why do you play at such high levels?

Cant' help it....


It is an addiction.....

shame that not so lucky....

Sry, i probably shouldn't have asked.

It's ok,

I can afford it, so not much of disaster so far...
Besides I have fun which is worth every cent...

Irrespective of whether the options are misleading or not, it is an excellent thread that has created a good debate.

Statistically the sample suggests that a lot more money is being won than lost, which obviously cannot be correct.
However, is it not likely that the people who bother to visit a forum regularly, and learn from other people's experiences, are going to be on average more profitable, than those who do not? (i.e. if you did a sample of other players who did not put the same amount of time to Poker learning, the results would be markedly more negative).

As a case in point,I read a few books and watched some telly in the first year I was playing, but feel as though my game has progressed at a faster rate since I have been visiting this forum regularly over the last 3 months.

Jak.

why do you find it so hard to believe that people make £1k a week online? maybe the poll should include those that make an average of $27,183 per month for the last 10 months, then you would be even more amazed

Shhh, i told you not to tell anyone....  :D

Boosted J said he was gonna teach his GF to 8 table 1/2 to get $100K a year. I think that's very possible but obv anyone who can do it will move up. Maybe it's because most people on blonde seem to play tourneys that they don't get how much money there is in cash games atm.

Exactly that, i wish everyday nearly that i had never switched to tournaments as it has ruined my NL cash game.

I opted for win sometimes.
 
I don't keep records but, although I know I should.  When I win it comes in spurts, I don't tend to loose more than I can afford I sometimes leave myself a little short.

When I win my problem is that I move up the levels and end up loosing it, as I have stated in other threads I am going to start keeping proper records in the new year it would  be good to see at the end of year what my profit/loss was.

What do people find is the best way to do this?  Should I use something like poker tracker or compile a spreadsheet?

poker charts is good thats what I use for records

I use the MyPokerDiary service on the Hendon Mob site (which is free and I've been using it since I started).

Have looked at Poker Charts as an alternative, and was wondering if it offers anything more that means it would be worth my while switching to it?

They look very similar, although the Poker Charts one looks more polished.

similar to a few posts.

made some money on blackjack freebies and have never had to deposit since...i play rarely at the moment and have a smallish bankroll.
so i win, small but am ahead...that could change at any time.

i dont find it amazing i found the 14.4%of those who voted were winning £1k a week.

and if thats your figure then well played  :)up

seriously?

Yep, don't get me wrong i enjoy comps and i make enough money, it's just if i had stuck to cash then i think i would be making much more than i do now.

So then presumably you don't consider it worth your while to attempt to "retrain" yourself back into a cash player?

I voted 'win sometimes' as well.  I've been playing about 11 months now, and it has undoubtedly cost me over that time - I have no bankroll, but that is not of concern as I am a recreational player.   I did have a spell of about 5 months where I played solely off winnings though, so for that period at least I was winning in that it wasn't costing me anything to indulge in my hobby.

I think it would take a lot of time, and it would be very hard for me to do. I enjoy tournaments and i make a comfortable amount so i won't be switching, who knows maybe 1 day i will be winning EPT's for fun and thanking myself for making the switch!

That's the spirit! :)up

This is an intersting thread but because the vote options are not numeric, its not an exact science. Also, you would need a much bigger sample that the blonde forum. however, I can confirm that i know of the following statistsics based on one of the well known networks stats for 2005;

1. 24% of all player made a net profit in 2005 (after rake)
2. 14 players made over $1m in 2005

When I analyse my poker tracker which has 2 years worth of data, it tells me that winning players on the tables I have tracked is more like 27%, which is not a million miles away, so I guess this information has statistical back up behind it.

To make $1200k a week is not difficult - if you played 4 tables for 30 hours on a $2-$5 (or even $1-2 if game is good), this would only be an hourly rate per table of $10 per table hour ($1200 / 120 table hours). However, this is like doing a JOB that paid $10 per hour (okay $40, but you know what i mean, you are actually "sitting" at 4 tables).........you are just sitting in front of a screen rather that working in an office. The average weekly wage in the UK  is around £650.............(exc part timers).

To make more money, you either have to play more tables or move up in stakes. Personally, I would do more tables unless you have a big enough bankroll - 6-8 ideally and then move up in stakes. A player who really wants to focus and make money should be targetting himself at more like $2.5k per week / $10k per month, its totally realistic to achieve this with disciplined money management BUT most people dont stick to it always, me included. 

PS - one thing I forgot to mention - you have to be a better player than most of the other guys to win...........

Sofa___king, I am so curious how much you make a week.  So far your confession is so absent from this thread.  I am sure you are a winning poker player with the great credentials so why don't you share your secrets of your bankroll.

i have nothing to hide m8 lol online i was doing( losing) between £1k and £3-£4k a week, losing not every week but most weeks ,,,,but never ever ,ever winning online EVER,ok some heads up and a few mtt and a bit omaha but overall i never won online thats why now ive stopped,,,,
as to live cash games well, some weeks i could win anything from £1k to £10k average 2-3  a week. live tourneys ok, some weeks i win or go close quite often in the 100 re-buy every thursday in cardiff not far away, in the swansea 100 re-buy on a tuesday and for a laugh sometimes play the crazy £10 re-buy on a monday   3rd last night lol that usally gets about 100 runners pot was £4200,won a few festival re-buys,made final tables a few times. what im trying to find out is that i know the game is diffrent ,,online to live, but how come i win live and cant win p155 all online ???????????lol hows that?

Maybe the standard online is better....

i wouldnt like to tell the fish that i play with that lol good point but i dont think so m8,,mind you i play 6 card omaha live  cash, maybee im just chite at holdem???lol i am feared a bit mind around the world

Oh sofa___king you are so great, please, please marry me.

im already married otherwise i might think about it >:? put a pic up here i see if i change my mind lol ,,,you nutter

Don't change your mind, my sense of humour has expired

But your a fish

In my experience live cash is a lot easier than online.

I've got a lot of respect for folk who put their hands up and say "I don't win at this"

Very profitable to cut out the holes in your game. If that hole is online poker, not appeasing an ego by continuing to bang away at it until you win, (or break even) but instead concentrating on what you are good at, is a kick-ass way to go about things.

Quitter  :D

I Know I'm losing online, however and this is strange, since my ban from cincins i am losing less on-line than before, I find the biggest weakness in my game is on-line MTT's, I really don't understand why, I have a few theory's but I'm not 100% yet. 

I know its still costing me money but my losing % is dropping and if the trend continues I may turn that corner, ( i just need to learn to laydown queens to a 3rd raise  and stop pulling moves in daft spots). lol

Now my records from Live cash are pretty respectable, my peak is £43 per hour, but its totally out of sync due to my absence  from the live game.

BTW I like that structure rob Yong posted, I will give that a go starting next week and see how it compares.

thanks tank,but one thing i must say its very hard not to deposit £1k or 2 after a few good live games,when theres no live game and 0 on the tv missus gone to bed and just fancying a craic,,but no i stoped online when i stoped smoking same night lol.this is not to say you may see me online trying to qualify for wpt ept wsop i think thats a diffrent ball game anyways gl who stays online and live ,,,

I think people make too much about the difference between online and live poker. Its the same game, and all the same principles apply to live as they do online or vice versa. The hardest thing about live poker, at first anyway, is just being comfortable at the table, handling chips, making bets, counting opponents stacks etc.... For inexperienced live players, it happened to me when i first started playing live, i was so conscious of all my actions and movements I was not playing my normal game that has been so successful online. This comes with practice though and once you are comfortable at the table, you will be 100% concentrating on the game and if you win online, should start to win in live games as well, there is so much more to this debate but I just got up and my brain isn't functioning properly yet..

It's a little bit off topic, but I don't know where you got this figure from. The 'Annual Survey of Hours and Earnings' from the Office for National Statistics for 2005 put the average wage (exc part timers) as £517 or £431.2 (mean or median).

I spotted that too, can i have a job working for you Rob? :D

Aplogies if I am wrong. I though the averahe was 30,000 per annum. So I just divided that by 46 weeks and got 650 pounds. I use 46 weeks instead of 52 to compare v online to take into account paid holidays and bank holidays that a normal employer offers (which online poker does not provide!).

Think it depends on how the average is worked out.  If you use the mean - the the results are going to be skewed by the ultra-high earners. 

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=285

They use the median - and it's £447 a week (2006 figures) - which is a little under £24,000 a year (using a full year) - so it's probably fair to use £30,000 as a marker. 

Although you lose some benefits from not having a 'job', there are other positive aspects, such as the elimination of any travel expenses, etc.  I'd save myself a small fortune if I got rid of my car.  Not that I'd do that though.

Getting back to the original topic of winning or losing players.

I am a recreational player. I think over the 5-6 years I have been playing I really have just played for fun and I suppose I am about equal in terms of profit or loss.

This thread got me thinking if I actually tried (I know it sounds bizarre but normally online I just have fun, make stupid calls or moves if I am bored and generally play to pass the time) could I make a profit from poker? Can it be that hard to play low level SnG''s ($2-$10) and play a standard game (in my case tight aggressive) to grind profits?

So the last few nights I have played on Laddys and actually concentrated, thought about my game, everyhand taking my time.

To my suprise it was actually more fun making correct moves, being patient, building up a picture of the other players games and making moves on the player less on the cards.  I know its a short time to look at my results but I have doubled my bankroll. I hope its this easy!

I doubt it's quite that easy... but like most things, when the going is good it seems like the easiest thing in the world!

I can still remember playing the 10c Giveaways when I started out and playing them to win, I don't think I ever thought if it any other way (although it didn't take long to see that not everyone shared my opinion)...

The more 'seriously' you take it though, in the long run, should be reflected in your profits. Which is all to the good. (Isn't winning fun?) :)up