blonde poker forum

been giving things a bit of thought today, and I'd really like to improve my game, but feel I've got as far as I can on my own.  I'm not one who finds books useful, and what I think would really help me would be having some kind of poker mentor - someone to look at my games and comment constructively etc.  I know there are a few websites around - has anyone got any recommendations?  Please bear in mind that I'm only playing very small stakes though, so can't afford to splash out too much.

Why don't you find books useful?

I got myself one of these yesterday and I managed to get onto the final table with his help! Would've done better than 9th if I hadn't have gone all in with AJ when someone was holding cheeky pocket aces! Doh!

Someone on blonde might offer to help Claire. I'd definitely recommend it though :)

ive never read a poker book. i prefer to learn skills by playing. totalise is really good. he gives great advice and seems to enjoy it. hes assisted my game with only a few hints and tips. these have been crucial tips and at the right time.  why dont you ask him for some advice?

because my preferred learning style is 'activist' - learning by doing. 

pragmatist me, anyway Totalise for Mentor

He'll prob kill me for this, but Ariston helped me win my first ever MTT - I even made BHOF cos of it -  if you ask him nicely, he may oblige.    :)up

Have u tried Poker tracker. Its a must for learning and improving your game even at low stakes.  You can go over all the hands you lost and see were u went wrong and why.  Has totally improved my game and will continue to do so. 

I don't really know much about poker tracker - but it is not just stats and the like?  What I really want is someone to analyse my game from a human point of view - not just quote stats.

Channel 843, 9pm, Poker Night Live.
Some of the presenters are excellent.
They were my mentors in many ways.
Even Tikay.  ;)

When I first started playing seriously I watched as much poker and read as many articles as I could on poker. I am not a big one for books myself but read peoples diaries and blogs etc and you can pick so much up. I learned alot from Daniel Negreanus early articles and blogs and also Simon T's early articles. Then you have to learn by your own mistakes I'm afraid. If you are still playing small stakes you are not ready to employ a mentaur just yet and should be watching poker on TV or reading and playing loads. Poker is not a game someone can just give you the key to, it takes years to learn your own game before someone can tinker with it.

 :goodpost: ;noflopshomer;

I'd happily pay totalise £100 an hour to teach me how to play poker. Trouble is that's like someone offering me £1 an hour to teach them.

LOL... crazy talk

perhaps I'm not putting myself across very well here.  i'm not talking about someone to teach me to play to poker, I'm looking for a resource where I can get some commentary on my game, as I play it, from a good player who can give me constructive feedback.  Thanks for all the advice, and I respectfully take on board Ariston's view that I'm probably getting well ahead of myself here.  I guess I'll stick to the magazines and the occasional post in the hand analysis thread for now.

I wasn't meaning to disparage you in anyway and I didn't mean to put you down. What I was trying to say is you can never read to much on this game. I think there is a thread on here somewhere with links to many blondites blogs- you can learn so much from reading them and they arent all just poker so are good reads as well. Good luck with improving your game.

I do understand what you are saying, the point is we are all individuals who have our own preferred style of learning, and reading stuff is not particularly helpful for me.

Just a thought.... are there any poker audio books?

I find the most helpful thing is other players commenting on my play - but that is live play. I ask people I have played with for help with how I should have played a hand - Tighty at Luton for example has told me my tells and all sorts of really helpful things. Getting a live poker buddy is really helpful.

If it's on line help you need I think Ironside has used a site which really helped with his omaha (but obviously not any play involving AK) - perhaps he can point you in the right direction.

Tracey

www.3-bet.net

rates start at $100 per hour for 1/2 and below players.

I got Wilson softwares turbo seven card stud software with player point's from a poker site. Made a huge difference to my stud game, not sure what the Hold'em versions are like. 

Wilson's TTH is well decent for limit holdem

However, it has limited uses for NL and tourneys

 :hello:   Thomas

Claire are you wanting live play help or online help?

Poker help i believe.

no shit sherlock!

 rotflmfao rotflmfao rotflmfao               you tell him mel

Reading is the easiest way to get new ideas but it can be a bit of a chore and I agree that it can be sometimes unhelpful .  I read Theory of Poker and it actually adversely affected my game for a long time as I became over concerned with avoiding mistakes.  I now realise that optimal play( which I'm not anywhere near) can only be achieved by making mistakes and this is ok as long as your opponents make more or bigger mistakes.

I'm not a great fan of posting hands as it is very rare that anything very insightful comes from them.  What would be useful is a forum where ppl post what they've read, seen or thought about, why they think it's useful and ask others to comment.  

Ultimately you will only improve by analysing what you are doing and watching (or reading about!) what successfull players do.  It would be great if someone could sit down with you for an hour or two and transform your game, but that isn't going to happen.  I'm not even sure that good players could precisely explain their decisions in real time as a lot of decisions are instinctive and based on experience.

I am also like you Claw, I find active learning far easier than from study. I had a poker mentor about 2 years ago, and at the time I saw amazing results. But, and this is a BIG but, try to find someone that has a style similar to yourself or it can seem far too alien, you'll find yourself not listening to most of what they advise.

Take for instance myself and James, he without doubt is a FAR better player than me (no laughing now!) but his style is poles apart from my own. I just can't bring myself to pull off some of the moves he tells me to, and often his teaching style just gets us stroppy with each other (in other words I get huffy if it doesn't work) I am now starting to believe that some people have a natural talent for the game, find reading other players/working out others holdings very quickly as second nature, but someone like myself is always going to struggle with it.

Sometimes it can help to go back to basics again, and stop trying to play 'clever', the saying about not being able to bluff a bad player is certainly true so could you be playing at the wrong level for your game? example: can you remember when I joined the Scottish Dave experiment to rebuild my depleted bankroll? Well, I went back to $5 stt's and sat there banging my head against a brick wall for hours, not understanding why I was not placing in nearly enough of them. James sat me down and we talked all through it, went over what bankroll I had (over far too many sites) and he suggested moving consolidating and moving to the $25 stt's  (I use to play 25 -50) I had JUST enough to cover it so thought it was worth a shot.

The results were instant! I started getting the results that I expected (even better TBH) and I didn't feel like a total failure for the first time in too long.... Hooorah!  My point is, the players I was with just didn't get me, and I certainly didn't understand their play at all, you would think that bad players are easy to clean up against however, that isn't always the case.

I know how frustrating it can be to know you are able, but not get the results. I've seen your game and KNOW that you'll get there, just be patient.


Good Luck!

xx

Ps, just thought of something else, don't take advise from too many different people, this can do more harm than good IMO (it did for me anyway)

I couldn't agree more!

Thats all fine, but i am thirsty and multi tabling....hint! lol

How much does flushy charge for mentoring ?

Put me down for several hours please, I wanna frighten someone's ass at the poker table

 ;kneelsucker;

Wondering how kev has not found the joke yet......

thanks for all the advice - and some very helpful PMs :)

This is pretty interesting - I have a small list of people whom I would like to sit behind and watch play, but have never thought that having someone looking over my shoulder and 'correcting mistakes' as I played online was such a great idea, for two reasons.

One:  I (personally) loathe having people watch me playing.  Not because I reckon I play differently, but because people who are already of a fairly high skill level are likely to have developed distinctive game styles (the best, of course, involving minimal patterns for opponents to watch for (the old 'hard to read' chestnut) and that cannot be taught, only absorbed through experience).  Unless your mentor is prepared to sit there for several days with their mouth shut watching you, and is then objective enough to recommend ways to improve the style you personally play in, I can't see it being of any use.

Two:  Someone might tell you that they've spotted, say, that the player two to your left is a rock, and when it gets to your button, you should just raise, all the time.  He's probably right; you do it, you're right, but when you're on your own, it's your own ability to track opponents which allows these sorts of decisions to be made.  This is why tools like PokerTracker are so useful - you can train yourself to spot patterns in yourself and others.  It's geeky, but way more effective than the short term remedy of the 'temporary mentor' i.e. seeing that someone is correct in one instance.

Too easy flushy, just too easy :D

For sure everyone has their own style (or everyone good anyway) and perhaps there is little more they can do but attempt to mold you to play like them, which may not necessary suit but....

I think a bit of mentoring has huge value still.

Someone can teach you not what to do, but what to think about before making a descion. They can say what they'd do, and why they'd do it, you can take little bits and pieces and add it to your own game. The more you don't take, the better. You can question them, debate certain issues, hash out for yourself what the best path to winning all the money in the world is. An experienced player to bounce ideas off would be invaluable.
Also, above all else, it gets you thinking about why you're doing what you're doing. the more you think about that the better.

That last point is true for both parties. I think it not uncommon for a mentor to get just as much out of it as a pupil. Calling all old hands of this world, adopt a noob today.  :)up

 :)up  :goodpost:

Apart from the last bit, about taking advice from many different people. I think thats a good thing to do, so long as you take none of it as gospel.

Everyone's different though, not saying you're wrong.

Even bad advice can be helpful sometimes, if you recognize it thus. Your brain works out why it's bad advice, and this helps you think about what the right advice should be. For this reason, I recommend every poker player read at least one John Patrick book, he'll teach you all about how to beat casino games.  :)up

Claire, what about asking someone to read (or replay using pokertracker etc.) a hand history from an entire tournament (stt say) of yours. Maybe then they could give you advice on changes you could make to your game.

I would do it for you but i imagine you want good advice.  :D

You will find poker books more rewarding as you become a better player. When i first read them i went in to high and it was just nonsense to me.

I read every little bit of poker advice i came across on the internet and you really do have to think about the game on your own when you are doing nothing else. Your subconcious takes on the advice you reason out in your own head and your feel for the game grows emmensley.

Then you can go back and get a lot from the more advanced poker books (i actually get quite excited when i pick up a new one, the mrs reckons i'm a sad geek).

Mentoring is great, i have given a few people a night of sitting with me playing tournaments (it made me play better to) and then seen them go on and start winning online and live. Just get people thinking in the right way is the way forward and if they are serious they will power their own development from there.

Good luck Claire.

Mentor or not I think its useful just to have someone to chat about poker and situations. None of my mates play poker and I'm fairly quiet so I don't know many people at that well from the live game to chat about this sort of stuff but at whatever level it would be useful.

the last part rang true for me.
I have now spent time with a couple watching me play (believe it or not with me as "the mentor" ;) ) I find that when i have to explain every move (or atleast have to be able to explain every move) I play MUCH better.
A couple of people watch me play online regularly (mainly HU) either in person or we're communicating through MSN..and it is a great help for them and me. Some of them are quite new to poker and HU and I have to use the ABC's whereas others are fairly decent tourney players who just want to get some idea on HU play (very little about it in most normal books) and then i can show more moves. But I ALWAYS have to think about what I do..and it keeps you focused.

I highly recommend it to everyone who is considering doing it.
Of course you shouldn't copy someones style completely...it simply won't work. but everybody at the poker table can teach you something, even players you consider to be "less" then you and it's well worth paying attention to people who are willing to give advise. you just take from it what you need (not necessarily what you agree with...THINK about why someone is doing something...don't just copy/ disregard it.)

Like Tank said ..poker discussions can be a great help. Sit down with someone and justtalk poker for a while..but not the usual bad beat crap or "I won this much last week" bollox,  everyone seems to feel the need to tell. Talk poker like footie fans can talk football.  Why was a certain move wrong or right? Why should someone have played it differently, or why should you raise with sooted connectors and all that stuff.
As soon as poker players find themslves able to talk about poker without it becoming a "well, let me tell you how unlucky I was last week" story, the sooner they will get some benefit from it.

claire do you play live?

i find that for me,when im out of a comp i like to talk about hands ive played with other people and ask if they would have played them differently.im quite lucky in that my best friend plays poker and also her husband is a good player to so everyday i get to chat about my game and how i can improve.

There are few very good mentoring schools online that are worth checking out.

When I started, (not so long a go) I read few books and joined online school, where I took few mentoring courses, being a beginner this was the best thing I ever done.  Those courses were set in the form of assignments, and for a week I had to follow certain actions, which sometimes gave me a heart attack (I was the rockiest rock when I started, I think the only cards I was playing were AA/KK/QQ and AQ was a lose call for me) but in the course of the programme I began to learn a wide range of tools that can be applied to the game, but they are tools, and nothing else.  After a while you can find your way and mould them to your style.  

As with any discipline, you can either do it yourself or ask some people to help you, but I think in whole honesty, if you are thinking of a mentor, try to get someone who is willing to explain why certain moves and actions are taken, and perhaps spend a whole week on trying them out without worrying to much about results per se, but keeping notes why they worked or failed.

For instance if you are struggling with table dynamics and reading your opponents as well as playing the position, playing 'blind' is an excellent excercise.  Do it for a week or so, (there are certain rules that apply) and your ability to asses the table, and how to play certain players should change dramatically.  Whatever the problem you have , a good mentor will be able to give you a set of tasks that you have to do and I am sure will benefit.





Can't argue with that, only if you don't know how to fix the patterns and have no idea about tools you can use to improve your game, this knowledge is not very useful.  I think poker tracker is an excellent tool for advanced players who can really exploit this programme to its full potential.  

this is actually exactly what I had in mind.  I thought I might have a go recording some games using whatever software it is that does this (whatever tuff fish uses!).

yep - I play live about once a month, usually a few guys from work come along as well and we sit and chat about the games or exchange emails afterwards pulling hands apart.

I so agree with this.  I have two other mates that play poker but not to the extent I do and I can't rabble on for hours about it to them. I need a good proper poker buddy to discuss stuff with.  Shame I can't get them more into it really.

Woodsey meet Silo, Silo meet Woodsey.

Now off you go and have a good old natter!! ;)

Watch out Cilla, the monkey is after your job  :D

Are you sending us off somewhere nice Matt :D

remind me again, which envelope did you pick?

 rotflmfao Envelope number 1 Cilla Matt

A night down the local Gala Bingo ?

ahh sorry, that was envelope 3.

envelope 1 was a fish supper from "Chili's chip shop" to be eaten at kicking out time on the benches down the local park.

hmmm, maybe i need to have a word about the budget on the prizes :(

I thought the matt articles were helpful when he talked his way through a tournament.  I also think that PNL is helpful because you get a feeling for how good hands are.

Yes the site that Matt used to post hand histories is useful - www.pokerhand.org  I use that a lot too.  Post it, make a note of the link then look back later and see if I should have done things different or to have a look and see how well I did :D

Think the best advice given on this thread is to get a poker buddy who you travel with and discuss/play poker with away from the casinos. You can learn far more about your game from someone who knows your game inside out imo. You will also find you can spot the odd leak/mistake in a friends game a lot easier than someone who you don't know- its also a lot easier talking about a mistake or flaw with a friend as they aren't likely to take the hump with you.

Ok Claire, here's the deal;
I give you a list of poker books.
You go out and buy the books.
You send the books to me.
I read them out loud into a voice recorder.
I send the recordings to you.
I can even add the sound of waves lapping the shore in the background.
Deal or no deal?

She is too bright to fall for that one  :D

'Audio' would still be passive learning. You'll have to build in some activities. (phrases like..'now stick the kettle on' between chapters won't qualify)

I'm with Ariston, my best friend knows my game inside out and is a useful barometer in terms of highlighting any 'unhealthy' patterns in my game and vice versa. We've both read stuff and between us have a decent set of resources but there's no substitute for 'thinking out loud' with another player. That said, if the levels you're playing at are too low then the money won't mean a thing to most players and it's just a matter of playing with 'a straight bat' as IMO the concepts described in the literature don't really apply.

Good luck!

It's still not 'active', but have you tried any DVDs?

Onine interactive tutorials would be a good idea, but I don't know if anyone is doing them well.

On an aside, does/has anyone use Cardrunners?

I've seen some of Tays videos, they are exceptional.. the other "coaches" are pretty mediocre though. Its well worth the money just to see Tays stuff though, you cant help but learn a lot

I've heard that cardrunners is good for cash games.

Why don't you just play and actually THINK about the game as you play, rather than just playing on autopilot.

Forget spending money on all this other tripe, or paying someone to watch you play (if they were worth the money they would be busy playing themselves) just think about the game.

Whenever I talk to the locals about poker at the casino all the rattle on about it bad beats. It's really boring and dull. I should open a booth up and charge them £5 a pop to listen to it.

Best thing I have found to help my game was watching and listening to ActionJacks video's, funny and very informative.

It's not that simple for some of us (i.e. me).

that's the problem...as I said poker players complain too much. If you can find a pokerplayer with whom you can have a discussion like footiefans can have with eachother then you're in!and Lord knows they are out there...

This wasn't supposed to sound arsey, more of a knee jerk reaction, sry. The thing is that you don't know what you don't know, so you need to read/ get advice/ watch others etc. to help you out.

I don't mean to sound an ass, but if you can't think about the game as you play and work out what is going on then you will find it very hard to progress at the game, even if you do spend shed loads of cash on a mentor.

It's not that hard to train yourself to spot these things, my suggestion would be to find someone who is playing a tournament that you know, and watch the game in progress, the key here is not just to watch though, write down details on every pot, see if you can put players on exact hands, work out the optimal ways to play hands. Then after all that ask the person for their HH file (well do that before hand) and go through the hands and see how well you did (best to do it on a site that shows mucked hands in the HH.

It's much better than spending money on this stuff.

I don't mean to sound condescending but here is another way of looking at it.

Imagine that these mentors are the equivelant as calculus teachers. Well they may be excellent and help your game a lot, however they are bugger all use unless you know how to do basic calculations.

I am not saying anyone here is bad or anything, just some people need to work more on the basics before they go for the tricky stuff.

Ok fair point but i have been playing for a little over 2 years and i am reading my 13th (i think) book and it is still teaching me new things. Unless i'm tired/hungover etc. i do think about things as i play, but until someone points certain things out to you, you aren't even aware they are there.

What about the young players who have had famous coaches, Noah Boeken (sp?) for example. I don't think they would have got where they are by just watching other people play./ reading books etc.

He was already an excellent player and very smart, that is the time to be mentored.

Reading books etc is a good way to learn, it is never as good as figuring stuff out for yourself, that gives you a deeper understanding. This is why the only book i recommend for tournaments is Sklansky as he doesn't tell you how many BB to raise with AA etc, he teaches you to think.

That's a good point, the problem with sklansky is that you have to remember to stay awake.

LOL yes, he isn't the softest read in the world!