blonde poker forum

Went down to Southampton yesterday for the Southern Masters, the fact that I'm back home already says it all.

But a big up to Grosvenor Southampton, & their handsome (forgot his name...) Cardroom Manager. It was scheduled for 7,000 chips & 45 minutes. I gently & politely suggested 10,000 chips & a 1 hour clock may go down well, & he changed it! Top Bloke. Sadly, one player was not at ALL happy, & had a bit of a rant. Manager pointed at me & said "his idea"....oops......

Lovely comp it waa too. I had a wonderful struggle with Tony Adderly - a real "personal" though friendly duel, we went up against each other 30 or more times. He bluffed me off a few, me him likewise. On one occasion, my BB, with 6 limpers, I Raised it up BIG with 7-2 off. Got 7 bloody callers........(geezer from the adjacent table called too). I actualy thought the 9-5-2 flop may have me ahead, but Mr Adderley was sat with 2's in the hole.......

It was fitting that it was he that busted me eventually, after a night when I played as well as I can, but very little went right for me. I played 2 hands sub-optimum all night, & got punished each time. Poker, like life, does that.

But the point is, well done Grosvenor Southampton. GREAT comp, well run, good buffet, lovely structure, & good company. It don't get better than that.

the bloke was still ranting at 2am

"it should have been a one day comp"

"what idiot wanted more chips"

well done to that idiot!!

I know - he was SERIOUSLY upset. Never said a dicky-bird to me though.

Oddly, I'm against changing advertised structures & clocks. But nothing should be set in stone, & I do believe the vast majority would prefer a better structure. Joe Grech, amongst others, approached me pre-comp & asked if I would try & get it changed, & he knows a thing or two about playable structures. Did not help him, mind you. Or me, come to think of it....

Sounds like the basis of his moan was that it was a 2 day comp, not a 1-dayer, and nothing you got changed affected this.

Makes you wonder why he played it at all, if the 2nd day was going to be inconvenient for him.

Sheriff

Whilst I agree that 10,000 points on a 1 hour clock is a much better comp, surely they should stick to the original plan?

I know it sounds negative, but just playing devils advocate, It was on a Sunday/Monday, what if he was a night worker etc rather than booking a day off, intended to work after comp. He may have entered purely because the structure suited him or estimated that the final will be over at a particular time. People had turned up to play that comp at the advertised structure, and i feel it probably did more harm than good in the long run.

I agree with Dik9.  The structure shouldn't be changed from the advertised once players have bought in.

A change doesn't mean a change for the better for everyone.

Well, whatever you guys think, let's take nothing away from Grosvenor Sothampton, who ran a lovely comp. Keeping poker players happy is not easy. Trust me........

 ;iagree;

Advertised structures shouldn't change unless cicumstances dictate it (hugely over/under subscribed etc).

The structure gave far to much play, i had 60,000 on the 150-300 level, madness. (Average for the final 68k) of course i never made day 2, that would be silly.

I like Southampton

they havnt been the same since le Tiss left though.

I happen to agree as well. Once a structure is advertised, then I dont think it should be changed.

Had I of known it was a 10,000 chip and hour clock - I would of come and played.

Just my 2p's worth

What happened to that show on channel 425 that gives a poker player the chance to moan about changing the structure late on.  ;whistle;

Glad to hear Southampton went well, must try it next time around.

I definitely agree with not changing a structure if it is going to significantly change a tournament. Last year I was in London with work (from Jersey), which I had just managed to "accidently" time as being on the same day as a £100 rebuy in Brighton, which was advertised as a 1 day event. About an hour into the tournament the tournament director announced that the final table was now going to be the next day. My flight back to Jersey was 10am the following morning !!!
Due to inexperience and not wanting to look an idiot in front of people I didnt say anything, called off my chips and left. If the same thing happened now I would be damn sure to tell the TD that they cant change it that drastically during the tournament !
This one was always advertised as a 2 dayer, so i dont really see what difference the extra chips made.

You dont see the difference in having 7,500 chips and a 45 minute clock compared to 10,000 chips and an hour clock?

Of course you do m8, but I take your point.

AND, had I of been there, and they announced the change to 10,000 and hour clock, I for one would welcome that change !!

the point was just that it was a 2 dayer anyway, but reading flushys post about having 60k at the 150/300 level puts it in perspective a bit !!
Changing how many days the tourn is going to run once it has started is going just a tad to far !!

(a tad = about a quarter of a million space miles according to the film Airplane 2)

LOL m8, your point on James having 60,000 chips at 150 300 level is irrelevant as no matter how many chips James accumulates - he will always pi$$ them away before the final table!   this was a live comp after all!!

;goodvevil;

.....as did almost every player in the comp. But it's the nature of poker. Try & change things - be it right or wrong, better or worse - & you are gonna attract a bit of flak. Best to do what most folks do - keep your head below the parapet, & just lob a stone or two over every now & then to show your presence.

In this case, the comp started at 6pm on Day One, & 2.30pm on Day Two. More than adequate time to have a decent structure. (In the opinion of most....). So the case (hypothetical) for saying "nope, on principle, we must not change things that have been advertised even though we know they are are wrong, because they have been advertised" is a bit over my head. But I can see the point being made by the detractors.

One thing I would struggle with is changing  a clock or structure part way through a comp. For me, that kite will never fly.

Thats just being defeatist. Tie the kite to the back of a 747!

They did that at Southampton last time at the South of England Poker Festival, they suddenly decided to make the first two (or was it four?) levels 45 minutes, and the rest 1 hr.

They assured me they won't do that again. This time, they changed it BEFORE the event began, & announced it to all.

I do feel sorry for Grosvenor. They are really trying to improve things, but whatever they do, they get criticised, or a mistake they made in the past is resurrected.

Who'd organise a Poker Tourney, eh?......

The problem as i saw it was with 7k and 45mins it would play to the final 9 on day 1, with 10k and 1hr it wont.

The event was on a Sunday, 17 players came back on the Monday. 8 of those players came back to get nothing, some of them would have had to take a day of work to do that.

Thats why I said if a structure is advertised, then it shouldnt change - People CANNOT moan then, as they know what they are getting BEFORE they enter the comp.

You could have a situation whereby, someone travelled say 100 miles to play a comp on the same day because that comp was advertised as a 10,000 chip 1 hr clock - only to then find that the comp 1 mile down the road (which was advertised as a 7500chip 45 min clock comp) suddenly became a 10000chip 1hr clock comp.

Get my point?

Was the structure advertised beforehand, if so, where?

Just curious.

Yes, it was advertised in the Flyer.

Tes it was advertised, which is why I made the conscious decision not to play it.

...and why I made the conscious decision to ring them up before travelling to ask if they'd consider changing the sructure......

It's amazing what one can achieve in life by asking politely.   :)

Fair point Tony,,, fair point.

I always ask them to consider changing the structure if I think they have the scope to do it and that the majority of the players would prefer a longer clock/more levels/more starting chips.

Amazingly, and to their credit, they agree about 75% of the time.

They were hoping for 90-100 people

Once they knew thay had 60-70 then I think a longer clock/more chips became a pragmatic option favoured by most players to allow the comp to take up all the time available and therefore not be unneccesarily crapshooty.

I would say so, but I liked the change a lot

am a believer that if you advertise an event with a such n such structure then it shouldnt be changed unless there is enough time to readvertise it.

for arguments sake what if you all turned up sunday and grosvenor said we have changed the structure to 5000 points and a 30 min clock? ;goodvevil;

The best part was when the guy kicked off at the TD about the change, the TD tried to calm him down but in the end just pointed at Tikay in a "it was him" kinda way, lol

lol and he just thought "oh i better not argue with him hes the famous guy of the tele "  rotflmfao

More "how can i argue with an old man"

My opinion is that if the majority of the players want the change, they should change it.

Remember, they always advertise the fact that they reserve the right to do so anyway.

IMO structure changes should be managed the same way as deals are... If 1 person objects to a change to the advertised structure then they must stick to it.

'ti true! And the geezer never said a word to me, but he didn't arf give the Cardroom Manager an earful! Difficult spot, because it was his decision, not mine, but I woild have defended my stance if asked.

But the guy got soooo excited, shouting & hollering, a right hoo-hah. Why can't foilks keep calm? What happened to reasoning calmly & intelligently? Win a lot more battles that way, I'll tell you. Guess society as a whole is losing that skill.

so if they altered it to 5000pts and 30 min clock you would accept that after travelling 2 hours to get there?

In point of fact, mid argument, Manager points at me and says "he asked for it to be changed, & he's a pro".....I nearly died with embarrassment.

When I move on from poker, I've got some grand memories, I tell ya.

Yes I would. If that's what the MAJORITY wanted.

Me? Nah, I'd turn round & go home. I'd not chunter either. Poker is what I do for fun, it's not an excuse to whinge about anything & everything that does not suit me "just so".

As I keep saying, I'm a funny bugger. I'd not swap with a soul, though.

 ;iagree;

Yeah people acting that way is quite sad.

The first player to get knocked out was on our table, he had already has his double chance and the TD didn't notice and put the 5k in front of him after seeing him lose the pot, the player then picked up the chips and threw them across the table! I would not expect that from a child!

Another player took a beat, a very bad one as it happens, and was kicking chairs over! He then finally returned to the table and just berated the guy who made the call for a solid 20 minutes (it was Dimiti the cricketer who is clearly new to the game) a great way to ensure these people come back!

People like that ruin the comp for me, i play live poker for fun, i am finding it hard to enjoy events more and more these days as people act in this manner. I was telling tighty earlier, i was praying to be moved onto your table as all we heard were laughs.

Lol, reminds me of the other week at one of our games on Friday nights... cash game, i take down a pot to wipe out this other fellow of his 3rd buy in i guess with a full house. Alls i do is turn over my cards and claim full house, and look round only to see him throw a dealer button at my face!! lollol... needless to say he soon left!

Kev has it spot on, if its a unanimous with all the players and the house, yes then go for it, although as a TD now i will be getting suggestions from every tom, dick or harry as how i should run a tourny to their advantage. I do listen to players, however when 10 people come running up to me with their own different suggestions, should i now listen to the one that is the most well known? Or should i remember the meeting where all the cardroom supervisors sit down and discuss at length what structure we should use and why, what are the pro's and con's for each structure, because someone decided it should have been 7500 on a 45 min clock for some reason? Not saying it is right, but someone has just had a row somewhere me thinks. The idea is to get the structure right before announcing the event. It used to be a gaming board requirement for the structure to be posted 24 hours in advance. Say for instance Gus Hanson walks in after TK and says probably be a better tourny with 12,000 chips and Phil Ivey says make it 15k on a 90 minute clock. Where do you draw the line. Manager says yeah your the pro, wouldn't want to upset you, lets do it. (Sounds good actually, but i digress) but do you understand what i am saying?

This is why I have decided to only play online for a while. I am fed up with people who can't take a beat or who think it is necesary to shout abuse at someone even if they beat them. (Or people who show up somewhere for the first time but show no respect for anyone)

If I want value tourneys I can find them online, if I want higher prizemoney I can find that online to..live tourneys are supposed to be fun and although I always managed to ignore prats at the table I found it's starting to bug me now.
It's just not worth the aggravation when I can spend a wonderfull evening at home playing a 100$ MTT in the hope of picking up a few grand for the same money as I would spent in a tenner rebuy trying to win 600£.

I think TD's should be MUCH harsher on people who don't know how to behave. Kicking over chairs? throwing chips over the table? Abusive language..Banned! naff off! go play somewhere else. Untill that happens I can't be bothered with live poker.

Flushy is not wrong - from the outset, our table was laughs & fun all the way. We set out to make it like that, & succeeded. Win or lose, the idea is to enjoy. And we did.

I agree - TD's SHOULD be harder on bad behaviour. When was the last ime you saw childish or moronic behaviour in a poker tourney punished? In mainland Europe, every day, in the UK, hardly ever. TD's lecture us regularly, but they have to do their bit too.

FLushy's poker playing "child" is the tiltiest player in the world...runs lap dancing bars on the South Coast as it happens.

".....as a TD now i will be getting suggestions from every tom, dick or harry as how i should run a tourny to their advantage...."

Running Tourneys to players advantage? That would never do, now would it......?

Seriously, I think you are reading this all wrong. I made a suggestion. ANYONE could have made the same suggestion. A WPT Winner made the same suggestion. A local guy also made the same suggestion. Thats all. It was up to the Cardroom Manager to say yes or no. He was not pressurised, there was no lynch mob, he is a big bloke, a sensible question was posed in a polite manner. He chose to agree, because, as he said, "we only have 70 odd runners, so we may as well, we were worried we would get 120+".

It was just that wonderful thing working as it usually does - "common sense".

Tikay, it's not a pop at you sir! It is a very sensible suggestion, that should have been listened to, and adopted for their next one.