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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/edinburgh_and_east/6150324.stm



So Basically get a free day out at knockhill by speeding...  >:?

well this is in scotland  ;hide;

I happen to think this is a decent initiative.

Its proven that by punnishing them with other means available isn't working, and fair play the the cops in Fife for trying something different.

Where are you getting this information from?

I agree with Bandit, let them practice before they go back on public roads

I think the police in Fife are thinking that this tactic may help drivers " get it out of their system"   if it works I'll be surprised.

This is in my town and the boy racers are everywhere, and a couple of months ago a boy racer got locked up for knocking down and killing a little girl. fair enough throw away the key is far as am concerned but why wait till the crime is done then punish them, guess they are just trying something new if it saves one life then it works in my view.

I honestly think this a good idea too.

If you were a parent it wouldn't be a bad plan. Police telling kids not to do it, erm, ok officer, ya fanny, vrooooooom.
This concedes that it is fun, but demonstrates there's a time and place for it. I think the kids are far more likely to get the message. I hope it does work, and wish Fife polis all the best (in this endeavour at least)

"Free tickets" might be a kind of irresponsible way to report about it though, I'm thinking it's designed to get us thinking that we are molly coddling hoodlums. That always makes a cracking story.

It'll be a kind of drivers ed day. "driving can still be fun in the proper environment whilst putting across our message that anti-social driving is unacceptable in the local community." is the key phrase for me.

Darn tootin  :goodpost:

Government statistics that are published on a regular basis show that by punnising drivers by the use of penalty points is innefective.
Further have a look at any information published by the MID.  And I am sure you will see regular reports if you keep upto date with the ABI wedbsite.

I can just see it..guy gets stopped by police and is given the free entry to Knockhill and what not.  His mates ask how he got it, he says "by speeding on the esplanade", cue his mates driving about like maniacs in the hope they get free entry as well

My thoughts exactly Bazza, it should be available to all without having to be stopped by the police

I've done a couple of track days, they are great fun but your average speed driving home is a lot higher than on the way there. Once you've been sliding round corners at 80mph, 120 on the motorway home seems like a stroll in the park.

Rewards for speeders, compensation for drug addicted prisoners, new identities for paedeophiles, rehabilitation for murderers.....
Putting the Great into Great Britain.

 :goodpost:

i dont think so, sorry.

 ;frustrated;

Stick them all in prison forever then, especailly the kids.

If your child was run over, drugged to death, sexually abused or killed you might take a different view.

At face value I agree speeders should not be rewarded.  The others areas are not black and white though and there are times when the other situations you described are entirely appropriate.  In my view.

Better for Amnesty International that we have a criminal justice system then, rather than the parents of victims choosing the alleged perpetrators fate.

Each to their own opinion on this one mate, I believe Rover makes a good point for example, when I lived at my old house both my wife and I coul not allow our children to pla out in the street for the last 2 years of our stay there, The reason?  I hear you ask, well Our local council had started recieving convicted paedophiles in to our community, as a result we had 18 incidents within 6 months, some of which were perverts exposing themselves and others were attempted snatchings.

People of this ilk make a good argument for the reintroducion for the death penalty.

Just my opinion

I totally agree, but that doesn't mean there aren't some serious flaws in the system.

I agree that there should be tougher sentencing for dangerous criminals.  I would argue that there is a case for chemical castration of paedophiles. 

But that is a totally different scenario from folk who are caught speeding, why not give them the opportunity especially at a young age to see the dangers of speeding, they can get the chance to cruise a vehicle at knockhill whilst at the same time learning about the dangers not only to themselves but to pedestrians and other road users by their actions.

The fact is that with the measures in place just now it doesn;t have the desired effect. 

The company I work for have been trying to put pressure on the government for 3 years to introduce a nationwide road safety programme that they have helped co-ordinate in conjunction with the police in Surrey, by all accounts the initiative seems to be very popular and has raised awareness about the dangers of speeding unfortunately it has been a laborious process trying to get the ear of a minister to give it proper backing.  It has taken Esure 3  years to set up a meeting with the appropriate ministers to make sure this campaign is given the proper backing. 

I think that we should seriously look at alternative ways of rehabilitating offenders whose crime is not a serious offence.  It seems though that politicians in some case are very slow to give alternatives their backing for fear that it may loose them a few votes.

the one thing I really dont get is putting junkies behind bars its easier to score in the jail than it is anywhere else. 

I think as an experimental scheme it is worth a shot although I would prefer if there was a financial penalty attached rather than handing out free tickets. If there is a causal rise in speeding after the free tickets are introduced, or if it fails to cut incidences of re-offending then stop the scheme and reintroduce traditional punitive measures. My problem with this scheme is that a) the incentives haven't been worked out properlyand b) I suspect there will neither be the resources or inclination for proper measurement to be carried out on its effectiveness.

 In the case of paedophiles/ sex offenders generally, I think first offenders need to be given a greater amount of psychological/ psychiatric treatment to try and change their harmful behaviour. With repeat offenders who demonstrably continue to pose a threat after treatment and are unlikely to change, I would favour life imprisonment (literally) or capital punishment.

People aren't put in prison for taking drugs though are they, it's other crimes that they have commited that gets them banged up right?

Serious flaws indeed, so what's wrong with a bit of innovation like that being displayed by the Fife Police in this example?

Sometimes it annoys me when any proposed solution that doesn't invlove more punishment is automatically dismissed. The people on the right of this argument sometimes assume that anyone who doesn't want to lock people up and throw away the key and/or execute them in a variety of interesting ways is condoning the crime they commited.

It goes without saying that we all agree crime is bad. Calling out for peoples heads is not the only way to express your disgust at that sort of behaviour. Someone commits crime X. I want to send someone to prison for 10 years, you want to kill him. Does this mean I think the crime wasn't as bad as you? No it really really really doesn't. The severity of the preferred method of punsihment is not not not directly proportional to an individuals level of disgust at the crime.

When people come out with potential solutions to growing social problems which don't involve locking up half the country, it frustrates me when their ideas are shot down on the grounds that no-one's testicles are being chopped off.

Why can't an issue such as this ever be discussed without reference to punishment? There's a growing social problem, how are we going to fix it? Discussion of how many bars to put on peoples prison cells should be secondary.

They say an ounze of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Well as punishing a destructive crime isn't really a cure to the damage it has done, I'd say an ounze of prevention is worth a kilo or two of "cure."

The police and community should be involved in a thousand more schemes like this one, some will work, some will not. Please let's not lambast someone for trying to fix things. Administiring lethal injections when the working class step out of line is not a solution, this might be.

An eye for an eye, a kidney for a kidney only really works with transplants.

Apologies for mixing metric and imperial measures in paragraph six. ::)

very good post tank

Good points thomas, but in terms of changing peoples' behaviour or potential behaviour punishment is still an important component. I would certainly agree that policy makers tend to ignore other ways to change behaviour such as rehab and innovative strategy's as well as actually tackling the social and economic factors which increase the propensity of some groups to commit crime but it is very difficult to produce strategies which definitely work. Prevention is better than punishment, sure but prevention of crime is a difficult and costly undertaking.

Dismissing punishment on retributive grounds ok, but keep in mind that threat of punishment does deter a great deal of crime, consciously and subconsciously. Not only that, punishment and our terms of punishment help reflect and shape social norms of behaviour.

Great post as usual Tank, I too believe that innovation is the way forward, yet I can see the potential problems in this potential case.

Paedos and Killers aside, speeding is not a problem, dangerous driving is.  I'm all for education when people act like fools in this case that being the boy racers, If it makes them better drivers GREAT!! if it incentivises people to commit petty road crimes in order to gain entry to a racing circuit well thats where my problem lies.

this is not the first  scheme they have came up with first it was take away the cars if they drive to fast "so what ill get another car" more speed bumps, traffic lights crossings, "who gives a shit ill drive my car some where else" ban them from driving "what i need a piece of paper to drive that be right"  

maybe this isn't the answer but at least they are trying something.

anyway am off for my free tickets (vroom vroom )

tee hee!

I'm not much of a motor-head but as far as I know most modern cars engines are regulated by computers, I know that you can buy racing chips that act as electronic go-faster stripes. I'd go the other way for speeders. Instead of points on their license you tune down their motor a bit. You'll be able to tell persistent speeders as they'll be the ones being overtaken by golf buggies, vespa scooters and grannies in those wee motorchair thingies.

You still have the odd glass of southern comfort jinky? ;D

Did i miss the bit in the article that said they wouldn't receive the usual punishment as well as the free trip to the track?

How about your kid playing football in your living room. Knocking over ming vases on narrow pillars and causing other such mayhem. For sure you'll suitably chastise them for doing what they shouldn't and plastering Grandad's ashes all over the shop. In the future though, are you going to tell him he can't play at all, or sort it out that he can go to the garden/park to have a kickabout?

What do y'all think about subsidised boxing clubs in areas like Soth Central Los Angles to reduce hospital admissions due to inter-gang violence?

I'm not saying this Knockhill scheme will work. In fact it's got a number of things going against it. Not least of all being that if boy racer totals his motor in Knockhill, his insurance won't pay out. Not so when he crashes into the Spar on the Esplanade.

Worth a bosch though, even if it's got a 2% chance of doing some good. If it fails, let's crack on with another 49 ideas.

Or we could take away everyone's licence who commits any driving offence. We'll see what happens, I'm sure they'll all stay at home and behave themselves.

my memory fails me  but im sure there was a similar scheme in nothern ireland 10 or 15 years ago , and i think one of the boys became a rally driver.

Either that or a getaway driver 8)

The difference is when a kid is playing and makes a mistake he/she is not responible for a leathal weapon.

Some of the younger drivers of today dont see the potential harm they can inflict just by carelessness or being wreckless behind the wheel.

The best thing that ever happened to me was a kid running out in front of my car when i was 19, I was not speeding or driving in a wreckless way when I hit him, and luckily the boy got nothiing more than a slight concussion, A few minutes prior to this happening I was driving like a maniac, acting like a fool with a very dangerous toy, Had i not thought i saw a police car that boy could have died.

This is what gave me my perspective on the road, not every other young driver is as lucky.

If this scheme educates these kids that there are deadly consequenses to their actions, perhaps it may save some lives.

:goodpost: :goodpost: :goodpost:

Puts the good in good post.

Congratulations are  in order for them having the initiative to try something new but I fear that rewarding speeding youngsters with a free day at Knockhill will have the opposite effect to that intended.

Yea if they learn better car control that's a good thing but what if the race day merely acts as a badge of honour like ASBOS currently are within certain elements of the community.

I would be more in favour of forcing speeding youngsters to confront the potential consequences of their actions so that they will think twice about driving irresponsably in future. This could be achieved by...
1) Being forced to spend some time tagging along with the police or firebrigade when they attend the scene of an accident and have clean up the mechanical and human carnage left behind.
2) Spend some time in a hospital A&E department and see the injuries people come in with
3) Spend some time with a family who has lost someone in an accident...(maybe too harrowing for the family though)

If I was a teenage driver again I would would see a day out at knockhill as something I would enjoy doing and would be more likely to think..."What speed do I need to get caught doing" rather than "Oh my God, I must try and drive more responsably"

In the ever-increasing battle against crime the single common denominator which would undoubtedly serve to help all concerned, both perpetrators and victims, has to be deterrent. Whilst schemes such as the Knockhill racing circuit one are innovative, surely the emphasis should be placed on detering the perpetrators in the first place. A slap on the wrist, 3 points on the license and a free day out can hardly be construed as a deterrent.
Regime in prisons is far from strict; those incarcerated have access to 'luxuries' of which they ought to be deprived. Being locked up is not the punishment it should be any more thanks to the civil rights brigade.
Rehabilitation works in some cases but not in others. Would you be happy as a parent if a so-called rehabilitated paedeophile moved into your street? Would you be prepared to put your child's welfare at risk in order to give the rehabilitated pervert a second chance?
I don't believe that simply locking everyone up and/or 'castrating' them is the way forward at all. But what I do believe is prison should be punishment to such a degree that the prisoner, when he leaves, will never want to return. To make people stop and think for a few minutes before deciding whether or not to commit an offence would undoubtedly be a step in the right direction.
Speeding, at face value, doesn't appear to be such a bad crime.... until a young kiddie or an elderly lady gets knocked down and killed. And let's face it, we all drive over the limit from time to time. Would we take more notice of the speed restrictions if it meant being caught resulted in us losing our license?
To my mind, deterrent is the biggest weapon we have with which to fight crime.