blonde poker forum

I understand Blonde is a "nice" place and am fully onboard with that concept.
That said, I really can't understand how this post was not flamed to death by "real" poker players.
At a minimum it should be regarded with complete disdain IMO. This type of thing leads to a really bad shift in player's attitudes and a "I am better than you!" way of thinking which is the surest way to not only drain the fishtank but kill the fish directly.

http://blondepoker.com/forum/index.php?topic=17549.0

These are just a few of the tastier nuggets from this post.

"a certain european number 1"
"Established players?"

Do you start with 3 cards instead of 2 because you are established?
Do you deserve to win because your established?

Give me a break! What a load of bollocks!


"you reraise to find out were you where"
LOL You state this as if it is a meaningful/correct strategy. LOL

"we are trying to make a living  these people have no idea what they are doing .........so scary"
How should I read this? Everyone who pays into a tournament owes you something? Did you pay their buy-in to the tournaments? If not, what justification could you have for telling them how to play with their money?


"clueslles callers of the reraise who then go all in by leading out , even though they havent got a clue where they are"

IOW you don't know where you are, and it just ain't fair!


Summary:
If you have chosen to play poker professionally (or even semiprofessionaly) then DEAL WITH the variance and shifting styles of play in the game. If you can't adapt your game to overcome or compensate for the variance perhaps you should be more worried about how you play and worry less about what other players are doing with their money.

 ;iagree; :goodpost:

We took the piss out of his last post though (the one about the burger eating yanks)

It was his turn.

May I be the first to welcome this post with a resounding  ;popcorn; ;popcorn; ;popcorn; ;popcorn;?


thanks


p.s The variance in UK festival poker at the mo is much bigger than the recent past, I totally agree. Personally I am struggling to adjust to it. Compositions of fields have changed and there is a definite "gamble to get chips early or get out" mentality

Very similar to a lot of net tournies Tightend. Plenty of gamble.

As has been mentioned, the styles of play in tournies has never been more varied. It's up to players to adapt to this. That may mean finding other tournies which carry more profitable situations.

The problem can also be some people do not know when they have been outplayed.

Some of the most successful players in the world would be labled fish from the viewpoint of their opponents, people like Negreanu and Hansen

FYP

oops missed a bit.  ;D

pmsl

Well said that man, i took that whole thread really to be a vent.

I mean why on earth would you not want to play bad players, live mtt's have almost the biggest varience of any form of poker, you can go a few months having bad luck and you prob have only played 10000 hands (estimate) i have had runs in Internet cash of 10k hands breaking even or losing and overall im a clear winner long term.

Poker is about adjusting to opponents not playing the same way and picking up the cheque at the end. Pros in the states have started to adjust and the better ones are overcoming large fields and making more than ever. Allen Cunningham ring any bells.

Mad, nice to see my point of view on that topic is shared by you.

BUT - you must really learn to say what you mean WITHOUT beating around the bush!! lolol

Great post m8 - more honesty is what we need here

Having bad players should be encouraging to play the game, I mean Flushy is the main reason Ive got to learn to play omaha. ;D

To all the whiners out there - print this out - put it on your wall, keep it as a quote of the week ;D



 tv distorts reality ;D

GREAT thread!

And yes, Mr F, the original thread WAS seriously flamed, so much so that some deletion was necessary.

Are you saying you do not think Negreanu and Hansen are good NL holdem tournament players?

I completely agree with our Yankie friend.

I said something similar in the original thread..proffesional poker players moaning about the standard of other players..it's just a pathetic bad beat story and that's all it is. And if you are regularly getting beat by "bad" players...you ain't as good as you think you are.

I don't understand why poker players whine soo much about bad beats, it's not good for your game

Far from it, but i think that tv distorts the fact how skillful/cunning and brilliant those players are.


Most of the time their moves with any two are situation dependent, and tbh they could not even look at their cards against certain opponents.  What most pple don't see on tv is the  set up/calculations/ reads  of the table dynamics/opponents. Many think that after watching those great players it is easy to  play any two from any position....

I think tv is responsible partly for whole loads of players who think that 73o is a hand to play, who try to chase and raise and when they get lucky their ego inflate when they don't they blame their inadequacies on the variance.

If you ever played a tourney blind, you can see that without looking at the cards, providing your reading skills are spot on, you can end up at the final table fair amount of time/ not very high stakes but up to $50 no probs and NHLE only.

Good post!

I tried this on many occassions, following a convo I had with The Fishman himself (Scott) - and to anyone struggling with their game, I would highly recomend it.

That would explain your performances at recent Blonde Bashes!!

 ;whistle;

I have one more thing to add.

Wow i was never aware that there was method behind it, i just assumed it was dumb luck.

just spent an hour responding to you yank  and whilst previewing i lost the lot.  perghaps a good thing as a i was going on a bit lol.

firstly if i appeared a little arrogant it wasnt meant that way and im humble enuff to notice when ive  made a slight error of judgement , on this occasion perhaps i did come across a like i could kiss my own picture ,but im the first to say WAT  A NOB.  SO APOLOGIES ALL ROUND AND THANKYOU FOR POINTING THAT OUT.

However there is some specific thought to back up my rant , im used to being in a competitive enviroment , i am also used to competing with people of a similar standard, this allows you to learn and improve at a good rate .  you only have to look to th scandanavin countries , we(the english)  invented golf , yet due to the rapid rise of swedish golfers on the euro tour, it is thier technical and physiological advances we are now using to improve OUR  golfers, and it is no coincidence the swedes rule in european  poker events (in the main).

now i am new to the game (so that is why my post was somewat tonguein cheek)  ive had some relative success in a short time . i like reading blonde but i felt a thread a little "close to the bone" might  liven it up. i didnt realsie there was a poker anal forum so i posted it on here  . (as col  kev pointed out last  night).

TO GET TO THE POINT  i want to learn and improve so i can compete at the highest level , i wont do this if i have to play with the rich local guys, that do add value  to to the tourney,,(crap arguement by the way) but what is value , do you perceive this in moneytery terms , cos i certiainly dont . Value to me is a 140 strong main event with a quality field , the amount of value i would get from that in educational terms is invaluable.   the problem is  as long as poker regulated by the casino groups we wont change things .

the natural thing for poker to do is create divisional tables promoting levels of abiillty , this would then create buy in time frames for the more succesful players, ie division one have a timeframe to buy in for a main event , then dive 2 etc .. then the local wealthy guys who want to play and in the main donate their money. thiss could be generated from the 4 main ranking tables ( it is no coincidence the same names appear on most of them)


THIS BRINGS ME ON TO YOUR SECOND POINT .....   i ,as you say, have no right to telll people wht to do with their money, bit if i was playing in the english matchplay golf championshipd against an 18 handicap golfer i would certainly say , go away and practicse, IMPROVEbut dont be silly and wast you money. NOW THT WOULD NEVER HAPPEN BECAUSE YOU ARENT ALLOWED IN BECAUSE THEY HAVE REGULATORY BODIES THAT RESTRICT THE SKILL LEVEL.

I ACTUALLLY  feel sorry for people  who waste their dough week in week out , and yes i think it is irresponsible of poker to allow this to happen, yes i undertand the added value rubbish, BUT IT DOESNT MAKE IT RIGHT.
IMAGINE SOME DIV PAYIN 20 K TO ENTER THE TOUR DE FRANCE AND THEM ACCEPTING HIS ENTRY BECAUSE HE ADDS TO THE PRIZE POOL .

I WILL PICK UP YOUR OTHER POINTS LATER BUT TO SUMMARISE ,  i think we should move to regulated tournements with better players (if not ony to improve the uk p;ayers ). this goes hand in hand with people wasting there money entering tournements were they havent a chance   .

ps. tk please explain your comments




apologies for the typos anf the caps .  im crap at this computer mularkey

So much there that I don't agree with that I don't know where to start

Ill give you a starter for ten

Dude A has run real good this year and cashed in some big events. Dude B is a far better player but has run bad this year. Dude C has never played a live event before but makes $500K a year playing online.

Who gets to play in your "good player" tourney?

Barry Greenstein on his website rates how well some of his biggest opponents play the game. One catagory is how they play against poor players, another catagory is how they play against good players. Sounds like you just need a little work on one of your catagories.

Comps are always going to have weak players as well as strong, and being able to play against the weaker players is a skill within itself.

YES YOU RIGHT MATE IVE OPENLY ADMITTED THAT IM TRUGGLING IN THAT CATERGORY  , but to answer you question , the internet player doesnt play live so  why would he want to start , the guy that has run bad for a year is a poor player, you cant run bad for a year , he just cant admit he has lost it, so he has to start again.


as for your comments tom, it doesnt surprise me that the more experience players wouldnt like CHANGE , btu you cant offer that sort of retort without giving an alternate view  , well i suppose you can. i know you dont like the way i am at the table but i get 500 % more information that way ,  yes sometimes i look a bit of a pratt but it has a specific aim, totally different to yours, but your a nice fella.

I f you dont want poker to improve in the uk then stay as you are , i do want it to ,,,,,,  an opinion based on not knowing any difference cos of my inexperience or an view formed from my business life.....

a lot of people think rob yong will fall on his face but aint got the nuts to say it to him, im just interested to watch his progress , i guarantee you one thing if its there ,he will find it if its out there    and the events he will target will be quality fields , and im talking outside his local stuff.

poker has to find its level , there are 2 many people coming into the game at to higher level.  lets hope it settles soon, 

we the british , lol

Keep trying you will get there eventually  ;m3boy;

MY GREAT GREAT GRANDARDYY  WAS FROM HAMILTON  SO WE THE SCOTTISH LOL

You're saying that a live tournament player can't run bad for a year?

YES , their is other influences which have created an enviroment in which he cant perform, may be cash presure etc, therefore he is in a void which doesnt allow him to perform , everything haas to be right, running bad is temporary running bad for a year , youve lost the pllot if you can play the game.

Let you off this time   :)up

You are right about one thing Nick, I don't really care about improving the standard of play in the UK.

The attraction of poker for me is the fact that it's NOT a team sport. I don't care how badly someone else plays, no one cares how badly I play.

Poker is a great leveler, we all start out with the same tools, old, young, male, female, black, white, the fairytale can come true for anyone.

For the record, I enjoy your company and I like to be at your table. I just hope I never outdraw you ;scarymoment;

Obv

The day there isn't space for everyone at a poker table  will be a very sad day indeed. And please let us be very clear on what I believe poker ability means.

Ability means having the necessary amount of money to sit at the table and that is it.

Now whether you have won that money on line or by working your way through various levels of live events does not give you any greater rite to be there than the man who has a lot of money and who uses festival poker as his/her relaxation.

Not everybody wants to improve
Not everybody wants to be a professional player
Not everybody gives a toss what other people think

But one thing is certain. If you sit down at a table you can play any way you like and still have a chance. That will never change.

Nobody has the right to criticise any other player as long as they have the ability to sit down at the table

cheers tom ;)  thanks for the first person being honest about there views..........  thats what a lot of people arent understanding im looking at it from what can best be described as the hopless viewpoint.............  ambition is the word tiss all.

as for you the other fella .................im new to the game but i can play a little bit and if i run bad for a year i wont play the game again.

Ask Lord Wernick if it's possible to run bad for 12 months, or look up his results on any poker Database.

Run bad for 12 months? Truly, anyone can. And will.

Makes me feel better! lolol

THATS  a perfect example tk , there was outside influences , he started again and if i become half the player he is ill be happy ;)

Screw this Poker lark, its for the degenerate gambler types.  Why don't we start a Blonde Bridge league and play a proper card game where there is fuck all luck involved. 

People game my arse !!

My opening bid is One No trump


I trust you know my bidding system raindogs....

I am more than willing to take on all comers at Gin. MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA

In response to quantify:

I think both Reddog's and snat's responses about cover my answer to your response.

I would also add that a key reason for poker's ridiculous sustained growth over the last 4-5yrs is exactly because ANY OLE DONKEY can and will win a given tournament when the sun is blasting straight up his arse for 2-10days. This is so +++++++EV for all who can deal with the variance, thus in any tournament I'm not playing in I would almost always want a donk rather than a "good" player to win, so that the cycle maintains itself.

I appreciate (now) that the intention of your original post was less disturbing than it came across.

That said, I think you have some fundamental issues in your approach to the game. These may or may not change/get resolved with more experience.  Either way, I wish you luck in your hunt for the "buried treasure" of poker.

Micky ran bad for about 5 years before winning the order of merit. DC has run bad for gawd knows how long, is he now a bad player?

Anyway poker is dull, you should all take up a proper sport.
The bad players get punished EVERYTIME in this one:-

http://www.bedworthcherrytree.co.uk/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=21060#21060

Only 19 nights out for a £500 return on my £30 investment + beer............av it!!

Pab, I think your mate sexygee is trying to pull me in the $109 re-buy on Stars. Tell me that it's not a bloke!

interstin, he doesnt usually go for blokes with tashes, lol

Well I don't know about poker, but the standard of people on the pull is getting scary

Oi Red, I only want bad girls when I go on the pull. ;)

Knowing you mate that would be a weak no trump

One rests one's case.

I strongly advise you add the rider "....except Jen Mason...."

She would whop your ass big time at Gin. She's American, see?

?

Three clubs you say?

I pass

What an interesting set of posts and counter-posts - I think we should thank the original poster for sparking a debate.

I am probably alone in thinking that this isnt really a debate about skill/quality of play - more it is about poker attitude and gambling attitude.

I am very interested in this primarily from a poker enjoyment and social perspective. One of my real hates about the game is when people suffer a bad beat and go bonkers - laying into the "clown" who has just beaten their better hand, with the wrong pot odds/bad call/1 out blah blah... this seems to happen too often.

I also see those who look ready to explode at games - I worry that the real problem is that they are playing in games they cannot afford to lose and that is a huge mistake for them as individuals.

So simple rules are :
(a) You pays your money and you play your game - and accept that everyone else has the same right.
(b) Only play in any game with a gambling element with money you can afford to lose.

LOL We always meant to play in Vegas but never ot round to it.
But in answer to her as a challenge...MUHAHAHA

I thought Id post one of my favourite and realistic quotes from my ole mate Tony Bolton

" Poker players are like Vultures, Living off the flesh of the weak "

mr bolton always full of good advice wether at the vic or the dogs,always gave mee these "nuggets of wisdom" after the event though!! 

The great man is a National Treasure

A living legend, could tell stories for hours!

LOL so true, I always look forward to meeting up with him at the occasional festival and talking (sorry, listening) into the early
hours.

ah yes..."Tell, me how am I supposed to live without you???" beautifull stuff.

Sorry, I also won $1 stt too
 ;applause; ;applause; ;applause; ;applause; ;applause; ;yippee; ;yippee; ;yippee;
is that better.
probably if you knew the man ,boldie, you might understand our comments better.
He isnt one who sits there all night just talking about bad beats and how he plays AJ in 1st position

i recall a group of us leaving the vic 1 night to go for a drink, "abe my boy" says hold on ill just get the drinks money and goes to the roulette table, 5mins and 7k lighter we leave and yes the drinks tasted more biter than norm!!

sorry didn't mean you offend you buddy...I just try to fit a Micheal Bolton reference in whereever I can...and the man being called Bolton is good enough for me :)

My appologies then, sorry, thought you were.