Title: Bad table selection but good hands Post by: byronkincaid on December 21, 2006, 11:22:06 PM I'm being my usual nitty self. Mr C is running at a kinda laggy 33/19/5.3/150 and is kinda running over the table. $15 seems to be the kinda standard raise.
Hand 1 Seat 1: colclough ($651.75 in chips) Seat 2: -Gotcha- ($461.50 in chips) Seat 3: Ataturk ($143.50 in chips) Seat 5: Boltitten ($263.75 in chips) Ataturk: posts small blind $2 Boltitten: posts big blind $5 ----- HOLE CARDS ----- dealt to -Gotcha- [2d 2c] colclough: raises to $15 -Gotcha-: calls $15 Ataturk: folds Boltitten: folds ----- FLOP ----- [9d 9c Ad] colclough: checks -Gotcha-: checks ----- TURN ----- [9d 9c Ad][2h] colclough: bets $5 -Gotcha-: raises to $25 colclough: raises to $45 -Gotcha-: raises to $120 colclough: raises to $195 Hand 2 eat 1: colclough ($1122.75 in chips) Seat 2: -Gotcha- ($608.50 in chips) Seat 3: Ataturk ($222.25 in chips) Seat 4: Mnkfsh ($108.68 in chips) Seat 5: Boltitten ($235.75 in chips) Seat 6: padrinos ($161.50 in chips) Ataturk: posts small blind $2 Mnkfsh: posts big blind $5 ----- HOLE CARDS ----- dealt to -Gotcha- [7c 7s] Boltitten: folds padrinos: folds colclough: raises to $15 -Gotcha-: raises to $45 Ataturk: folds Mnkfsh: folds colclough: raises to $114 -Gotcha-: calls $69 ----- FLOP ----- [7h Kh 5h] colclough: bets $500 Title: Re: Bad table selection but good hands Post by: Royal Flush on December 21, 2006, 11:25:03 PM 2nd 1 it has to go in.
First 1 i opt for call call. Title: Re: Bad table selection but good hands Post by: theplayer_uk on December 22, 2006, 01:01:49 AM 1st hand you should just call his 3-bet and re-eval river
2nd hand easy call Title: Re: Bad table selection but good hands Post by: TightEnd on December 22, 2006, 01:09:17 AM 1, Its going in. I like your chances against his range
2. Stick it in. I like your chances against the bare Ahrt what is your image with him? do you think this has any relevance? if he has you as more conservative than him (no idea if you are) does this widen the range you put him on and prompt you to at least call both?..it would me. Title: Re: Bad table selection but good hands Post by: byronkincaid on December 22, 2006, 01:39:48 AM Hand 3 Seat 1: Tommyhill sits out Seat 2: Snaps001 ($618.84 in chips) Seat 3: -Gotcha- ($679 in chips) Seat 4: colclough ($561.50 in chips) Seat 5: Alkaline ($403.25 in chips) Seat 6: KautoStar ($804 in chips) Snaps001: posts small blind $2 -Gotcha-: posts big blind $5 ----- HOLE CARDS ----- dealt to -Gotcha- [As Ac] Tommyhill sits back colclough: raises to $15 Alkaline: folds KautoStar: folds Snaps001: folds -Gotcha-: raises to $45 colclough: calls $30 ----- FLOP ----- [8h 7h 4d] -Gotcha-: bets $70 colclough: calls $70 ----- TURN ----- [8h 7h 4d][7c] -Gotcha-: checks colclough: bets $166 Title: Re: Bad table selection but good hands Post by: snoopy1239 on December 22, 2006, 01:51:22 AM Hand 1 & 2: stick it in.
Hand 3: very tricky, not sure what's best tbh Title: Re: Bad table selection but good hands Post by: boldie on December 22, 2006, 09:32:55 AM Hand 1 & 2: stick it in. Hand 3: very tricky, not sure what's best tbh I'd stick it in all three times. Sure he could have the 7 in the third example but he raised from EP and then called your reraise. the only 7 he would have would be if he had sooted connectors IMO. I'd more likely expect an overpair to the board though. Title: Re: Bad table selection but good hands Post by: theplayer_uk on December 22, 2006, 12:39:05 PM seems like pretty good table selection tbh. All those players are on my friends list.
In the AA hand re-raise more preflop given that you are OOP and a psr is 52 anyway. c/c the turn and re-eval river. Title: Re: Bad table selection but good hands Post by: byronkincaid on December 22, 2006, 01:28:45 PM seems like pretty good table selection tbh. All those players are on my friends list. In the AA hand re-raise more preflop given that you are OOP and a psr is 52 anyway. c/c the turn and re-eval river. Seat 1: Tommyhill sits out Seat 2: Snaps001 ($618.84 in chips) Seat 3: -Gotcha- ($679 in chips) Seat 4: colclough ($561.50 in chips) Seat 5: Alkaline ($403.25 in chips) Seat 6: KautoStar ($804 in chips) Snaps001: posts small blind $2 -Gotcha-: posts big blind $5 ----- HOLE CARDS ----- dealt to -Gotcha- [As Ac] Tommyhill sits back colclough: raises to $15 Alkaline: folds KautoStar: folds Snaps001: folds -Gotcha-: raises to $45 colclough: calls $30 ----- FLOP ----- [8h 7h 4d] -Gotcha-: bets $70 colclough: calls $70 ----- TURN ----- [8h 7h 4d][7c] -Gotcha-: checks colclough: bets $166 -Gotcha-: calls $166 ----- RIVER ----- [8h 7h 4d 7c][Jd] -Gotcha-: checks colclough: bets $280.50 and is all-in Title: Re: Bad table selection but good hands Post by: TightEnd on December 22, 2006, 01:30:46 PM why didn't you bet the turn on hand 3? what are you putting him on to check there byron?
Title: Re: Bad table selection but good hands Post by: byronkincaid on December 22, 2006, 01:53:32 PM For the last week or so I've been playing like a complete muppet. I don't seem to be able to think clearly about anything. I was thinking about pot control when Boldie is correct in saying that the most likely hand is an overpair.
Title: Re: Bad table selection but good hands Post by: theplayer_uk on December 22, 2006, 02:45:43 PM pot control is fine on turn if you can understand calling range,
call river Title: Re: Bad table selection but good hands Post by: boldie on December 22, 2006, 03:58:24 PM seems like pretty good table selection tbh. All those players are on my friends list. In the AA hand re-raise more preflop given that you are OOP and a psr is 52 anyway. c/c the turn and re-eval river. Seat 1: Tommyhill sits out Seat 2: Snaps001 ($618.84 in chips) Seat 3: -Gotcha- ($679 in chips) Seat 4: colclough ($561.50 in chips) Seat 5: Alkaline ($403.25 in chips) Seat 6: KautoStar ($804 in chips) Snaps001: posts small blind $2 -Gotcha-: posts big blind $5 ----- HOLE CARDS ----- dealt to -Gotcha- [As Ac] Tommyhill sits back colclough: raises to $15 Alkaline: folds KautoStar: folds Snaps001: folds -Gotcha-: raises to $45 colclough: calls $30 ----- FLOP ----- [8h 7h 4d] -Gotcha-: bets $70 colclough: calls $70 ----- TURN ----- [8h 7h 4d][7c] -Gotcha-: checks colclough: bets $166 -Gotcha-: calls $166 ----- RIVER ----- [8h 7h 4d 7c][Jd] -Gotcha-: checks colclough: bets $280.50 and is all-in hmmm didn't like the way this betting went at all. the flatcall on the turn where I would have shoved. the J is a card you don't want to see if, like me you take him for an overpair to the board he could now have the full house. However he could also take you for a busted FD as you are just as unlikely as him to have the 7. I'd be almost tempted to think he has JJ here and the river housed him up..I take it you folded to his river bet? You haven't defined his hand at all during the betting and that's a bit of a problem for me to determine whether it would be wise to call his river bet as your betting screams flush draw...so he could think his QQ or KK might also be good here. very tricky on the river. Title: Re: Bad table selection but good hands Post by: Royal Flush on December 22, 2006, 04:05:54 PM If he thinks you have a flush draw he shoves KK/QQ about 0% of the time here on the river.
Title: Re: Bad table selection but good hands Post by: booder on December 22, 2006, 04:18:38 PM seems like pretty good table selection tbh. All those players are on my friends list. In the AA hand re-raise more preflop given that you are OOP and a psr is 52 anyway. c/c the turn and re-eval river. Seat 1: Tommyhill sits out Seat 2: Snaps001 ($618.84 in chips) Seat 3: -Gotcha- ($679 in chips) Seat 4: colclough ($561.50 in chips) Seat 5: Alkaline ($403.25 in chips) Seat 6: KautoStar ($804 in chips) Snaps001: posts small blind $2 -Gotcha-: posts big blind $5 ----- HOLE CARDS ----- dealt to -Gotcha- [As Ac] Tommyhill sits back colclough: raises to $15 Alkaline: folds KautoStar: folds Snaps001: folds -Gotcha-: raises to $45 colclough: calls $30 ----- FLOP ----- [8h 7h 4d] -Gotcha-: bets $70 colclough: calls $70 ----- TURN ----- [8h 7h 4d][7c] -Gotcha-: checks colclough: bets $166 -Gotcha-: calls $166 ----- RIVER ----- [8h 7h 4d 7c][Jd] -Gotcha-: checks colclough: bets $280.50 and is all-in $840 + in the middle............i am not folding for $280 Title: Re: Bad table selection but good hands Post by: totalise on December 22, 2006, 04:22:33 PM hand 1 is close to a fold, you can call the turn and see what happens, but you are staring at a big hand here a lot of the time. What can he have?
hand 2 is super thin preflop, but on flop is an obvious call hand 3 you can raise more preflop, being OOP is bad news.. I like the way you got to the river, now call and finish it off Title: Re: Bad table selection but good hands Post by: byronkincaid on December 22, 2006, 04:59:04 PM Seat 1: colclough ($651.75 in chips)
Seat 2: -Gotcha- ($461.50 in chips) Seat 3: Ataturk ($143.50 in chips) Seat 5: Boltitten ($263.75 in chips) Ataturk: posts small blind $2 Boltitten: posts big blind $5 ----- HOLE CARDS ----- dealt to -Gotcha- [2d 2c] colclough: raises to $15 -Gotcha-: calls $15 Ataturk: folds Boltitten: folds ----- FLOP ----- [9d 9c Ad] colclough: checks -Gotcha-: checks ----- TURN ----- [9d 9c Ad][2h] colclough: bets $5 -Gotcha-: raises to $25 colclough: raises to $45 -Gotcha-: raises to $120 colclough: raises to $195 -Gotcha-: raises to $446.50 and is all-in colclough: calls $251.50 ----- RIVER ----- [9d 9c Ad 2h][7s] ----- SHOW DOWN ----- -Gotcha-: shows [2d 2c] (A Full House, Twos full of Nines) colclough: shows [Ah 9h] (A Full House, Nines full of Aces) colclough collected $928 from Main pot Seat 1: colclough ($1122.75 in chips) Seat 2: -Gotcha- ($608.50 in chips) Seat 3: Ataturk ($222.25 in chips) Seat 4: Mnkfsh ($108.68 in chips) Seat 5: Boltitten ($235.75 in chips) Seat 6: padrinos ($161.50 in chips) Ataturk: posts small blind $2 Mnkfsh: posts big blind $5 ----- HOLE CARDS ----- dealt to -Gotcha- [7c 7s] Boltitten: folds padrinos: folds colclough: raises to $15 -Gotcha-: raises to $45 Ataturk: folds Mnkfsh: folds colclough: raises to $114 -Gotcha-: calls $69 ----- FLOP ----- [7h Kh 5h] colclough: bets $500 -Gotcha-: is all-in $494.50 Returned uncalled bets $5.50 to colclough ----- TURN ----- [7h Kh 5h][Qd] ----- RIVER ----- [7h Kh 5h Qd][4h] ----- SHOW DOWN ----- colclough: shows [Ks Ah] (A Flush, Ace high) -Gotcha-: shows [7c 7s] (Three of a kind, Sevens, King high) colclough collected $1221 from Main pot Seat 1: Tommyhill sits out Seat 2: Snaps001 ($618.84 in chips) Seat 3: -Gotcha- ($679 in chips) Seat 4: colclough ($561.50 in chips) Seat 5: Alkaline ($403.25 in chips) Seat 6: KautoStar ($804 in chips) Snaps001: posts small blind $2 -Gotcha-: posts big blind $5 ----- HOLE CARDS ----- dealt to -Gotcha- [As Ac] Tommyhill sits back colclough: raises to $15 Alkaline: folds KautoStar: folds Snaps001: folds -Gotcha-: raises to $45 colclough: calls $30 ----- FLOP ----- [8h 7h 4d] -Gotcha-: bets $70 colclough: calls $70 ----- TURN ----- [8h 7h 4d][7c] -Gotcha-: checks colclough: bets $166 -Gotcha-: calls $166 ----- RIVER ----- [8h 7h 4d 7c][Jd] -Gotcha-: checks colclough: bets $280.50 and is all-in -Gotcha-: calls $280.50 ----- SHOW DOWN ----- colclough: shows [Jh Js] (A Full House, Jacks full of Sevens) -Gotcha-: shows [As Ac] (Two Pairs, Aces and Sevens, Jack high) colclough collected $1122 from Main pot DC added to my list of world class players I'm gonna suck out on in a large way at a final table some day :D Title: Re: Bad table selection but good hands Post by: boldie on December 22, 2006, 05:03:56 PM UL on nr 2 and 3...nr 1...well what can you do, the guy flopped a monster.
Title: Re: Bad table selection but good hands Post by: theplayer_uk on December 22, 2006, 05:36:27 PM if that is Dave Colclough his turn bet is fucking terrible
Title: Re: Bad table selection but good hands Post by: byronkincaid on December 22, 2006, 05:38:32 PM Quote if that is Dave Colclough it is Title: Re: Bad table selection but good hands Post by: theplayer_uk on December 22, 2006, 05:42:53 PM he needs to learn to play cash
Title: Re: Bad table selection but good hands Post by: totalise on December 22, 2006, 05:46:45 PM you should offer to coach him
Title: Re: Bad table selection but good hands Post by: theplayer_uk on December 22, 2006, 05:49:59 PM his turn bet is REALLY REALLY bad, if you can't see that then don't judge
Title: Re: Bad table selection but good hands Post by: NoflopsHomer on December 22, 2006, 05:52:46 PM his turn bet is REALLY REALLY bad, if you can't see that then don't judge Where is the judging? Title: Re: Bad table selection but good hands Post by: Bongo on December 22, 2006, 05:54:46 PM Is it because 1 + 6 + 6 = 13 and that is unlucky?
Title: Re: Bad table selection but good hands Post by: NoflopsHomer on December 22, 2006, 05:56:57 PM Is it because 1 + 6 + 6 = 13 and that is unlucky? rotflmfao rotflmfao :respect: Title: Re: Bad table selection but good hands Post by: boldie on December 22, 2006, 05:58:11 PM Is it because 1 + 6 + 6 = 13 and that is unlucky? rotflmfao rotflmfao :respect: lmao Title: Re: Bad table selection but good hands Post by: totalise on December 22, 2006, 05:59:53 PM his turn bet is REALLY REALLY bad, if you can't see that then don't judge I see. Thanks for the explanation. Your lessons must be value for money, where do I sign up? Title: Re: Bad table selection but good hands Post by: SupaMonkey on December 22, 2006, 06:03:38 PM his turn bet is REALLY REALLY bad, if you can't see that then don't judge I can't see. Pls explain. Title: Re: Bad table selection but good hands Post by: theplayer_uk on December 22, 2006, 07:11:33 PM no value to the bet, you get c/r by all better hands and when you are ahead vill has a mas of 12.5% equity which the bet isn't worth.
Title: Re: Bad table selection but good hands Post by: totalise on December 22, 2006, 07:13:07 PM no value to the bet, you get c/r by all better hands and when you are ahead vill has a mas of 12.5% equity which the bet isn't worth. LOL Title: Re: Bad table selection but good hands Post by: booder on December 22, 2006, 07:18:12 PM no value to the bet, you get c/r by all better hands and when you are ahead vill has a mas of 12.5% equity which the bet isn't worth. damn...thats what i was gonna say Is it because 1 + 6 + 6 = 13 and that is unlucky? rotflmfao rotflmfao rotflmfao Title: Re: Bad table selection but good hands Post by: snoopy1239 on December 22, 2006, 07:38:09 PM and when you are ahead vill has a mas of 12.5% equity which the bet isn't worth. Hi Please could you elaborate on the above part of your statement so I can undertsand better. cheers Title: Re: Bad table selection but good hands Post by: theplayer_uk on December 22, 2006, 07:50:00 PM alright, his opponents equity in the pot = 12.5%, (when we have best hand with JJ)
12.5% x (lets say the pot is 100) = 12.5$ if he bets, he would bet say 66 (2/3), so he is betting 66 to protect 12.5 which is bas obviously. We would need to have the best hand >80% of the time for this protection bet to be worthwhile IF we aren't going to put any more money into the pot. We probably aren't this good, and I haven't worked out his bet size but it could easily be more than (2/3) Hope that explains a bit more. Title: Re: Bad table selection but good hands Post by: booder on December 22, 2006, 07:53:20 PM to do these calculations , do you use
a......pen and paper b.....abacus c......calculator d.....computer e.....your head f......none of the above Title: Re: Bad table selection but good hands Post by: SupaMonkey on December 22, 2006, 08:26:34 PM alright, his opponents equity in the pot = 12.5%, (when we have best hand with JJ) 12.5% x (lets say the pot is 100) = 12.5$ if he bets, he would bet say 66 (2/3), so he is betting 66 to protect 12.5 which is bas obviously. We would need to have the best hand >80% of the time for this protection bet to be worthwhile IF we aren't going to put any more money into the pot. We probably aren't this good, and I haven't worked out his bet size but it could easily be more than (2/3) Hope that explains a bit more. So if a blank falls on the end and your opponent bets, do you call in DC's shoes (after checking the turn behind your oppo). i.e. have you already put your oppo on an overpair from his preflop reraise and if so, why call the flop bet? If you do call on the end what is the max size fo bet you are willing to call? I ask because i would use a 2/3rds pot bet on the turn when i am trying to define my hand a little more. Don't you think the check behind on the turn induces a bluff and makes your river decision harder? Or am i just chatting bollox (ps i don't play cash). Title: Re: Bad table selection but good hands Post by: Royal Flush on December 22, 2006, 08:29:25 PM I ask because i would use a 2/3rds pot bet on the turn when i am trying to define my hand ;frustrated; ;frustrated; ;frustrated; You put in a 1/4 of your stack to 'define your hand' What the hell do you need to define, you have JJ. Will everyone stop trying to make poker so damn complicated, its a simple game! Title: Re: Bad table selection but good hands Post by: totalise on December 22, 2006, 08:39:20 PM alright, his opponents equity in the pot = 12.5%, (when we have best hand with JJ) 12.5% x (lets say the pot is 100) = 12.5$ if he bets, he would bet say 66 (2/3), so he is betting 66 to protect 12.5 which is bas obviously. We would need to have the best hand >80% of the time for this protection bet to be worthwhile IF we aren't going to put any more money into the pot. We probably aren't this good, and I haven't worked out his bet size but it could easily be more than (2/3) Hope that explains a bit more. but you have that 87.5% equity in any bet that is called on the turn, and despite your protestations that everyone plays perfect poker, there is a more then zero percent chance that people are calling when you have the best hand. You also want to bet in these spots when you cant ever get another $$ out of your opponent unless he improves (ie, he isn't gonna bluff the river if he doesn't improve) and when people like Byron are 3-betting loose, you dont want to sacrifice your 87% of the pot for free when he could have shit like underpairs/flush draws/pair+gutshot/overcards and other such filth. He might well never call when you have the best hand, but its still better to protect your equity in the pot then to give someone infinite odds to take it away from you, especially if you are going to call a bet on the river anyways. In simple terms, put yourself in Byrons spot. You are 3-betting light. Are you happy or sad to see someone check the turn here with JJ. Normally if you make a good player happy, you are making a mistake. Title: Re: Bad table selection but good hands Post by: theplayer_uk on December 22, 2006, 08:40:35 PM this is the hard part, It is hard to explain in a post and it is opponent and game dynamic specific.
Most of the time it is a river fold unless your opponent is too aggressive. In most cases this is not true and I think that the river bet is usually for value. I think DC misplayed 2 streets in this hand. One pretty badly and one very badly. Title: Re: Bad table selection but good hands Post by: theplayer_uk on December 22, 2006, 08:45:34 PM I don't think you know how byron plays and if you did and you knew DC would bet JJ here you would be very happy.
Title: Re: Bad table selection but good hands Post by: snoopy1239 on December 22, 2006, 08:47:13 PM Does anyone else feel as thick I do? :'( :'(
Title: Re: Bad table selection but good hands Post by: totalise on December 22, 2006, 08:50:22 PM I don't think you know how byron plays and if you did and you knew DC would bet JJ here you would be very happy. you might be rite, I only played with Bryon once and thats when i went to play him on Absolute, and he was 3 betting for fun. If he really is so tight that his 3-bet range embraces JJ putting money in the pot here, then yes, betting JJ is a mistake. Title: Re: Bad table selection but good hands Post by: theplayer_uk on December 22, 2006, 08:52:58 PM he plays 10/8
Title: Re: Bad table selection but good hands Post by: snoopy1239 on December 22, 2006, 08:53:02 PM Fascinating thread though, player_uk's comments are genuinely intriguing when he elaborates.
Title: Re: Bad table selection but good hands Post by: SupaMonkey on December 22, 2006, 08:54:07 PM Does anyone else feel as thick I do? :'( :'( Do i need to answer, lol. I ask because i would use a 2/3rds pot bet on the turn when i am trying to define my hand ;frustrated; ;frustrated; ;frustrated; a) You put in a 1/4 of your stack to 'define your hand' b) What the hell do you need to define, you have JJ. a) I've never really tried this, i just assumed that everyone would take it as a Harrington probe bet and it wouldn't get me much info. b) Your oppo has reraise you out of position preflop, surely the hand you hold is at the bottom of his range. Title: Re: Bad table selection but good hands Post by: totalise on December 22, 2006, 08:56:07 PM he plays 10/8 wtf.. fold JJ on the flop then! Title: Re: Bad table selection but good hands Post by: byronkincaid on December 22, 2006, 08:57:27 PM 11/8 ;)
Title: Re: Bad table selection but good hands Post by: Royal Flush on December 22, 2006, 08:58:13 PM a) I've never really tried this, i just assumed that everyone would take it as a Harrington probe bet and it wouldn't get me much info. b) Your oppo has reraise you out of position preflop, surely the hand you hold is at the bottom of his range. a) i don't get ya. b) so you have already 'defined' your hand then, why do you need to do it again? Title: Re: Bad table selection but good hands Post by: theplayer_uk on December 22, 2006, 08:58:36 PM he plays 10/8 wtf.. fold JJ on the flop then! I think so Title: Re: Bad table selection but good hands Post by: SupaMonkey on December 22, 2006, 09:01:11 PM a) harrington 1 says bet 1/3rd pot for a probe bet and 1/2 to 3/4s for a CB. So if i bet 1/3rd of the pot it looks like a probe bet no? I am inducing the reraise bluff (maybe i'm overthinking this).
b) if your hand is so well defined on the flop, why call? Title: Re: Bad table selection but good hands Post by: snoopy1239 on December 22, 2006, 09:02:56 PM he plays 10/8 wtf.. fold JJ on the flop then! I think so Considering he has re-raised and is likely to continuation bet, what is the point of calling the pre-flop raise if you are going to fold on the flop, or do you reckon he should have folded to the initial pre-flop raise? Title: Re: Bad table selection but good hands Post by: byronkincaid on December 22, 2006, 09:04:21 PM he plays 10/8 wtf.. fold JJ on the flop then! I think so Considering he has re-raised and is likely to continuation bet, what is the point of calling the pre-flop raise if you are going to fold on the flop, or do you reckon he should have folded to the initial pre-flop raise? catch a set to stack a tighty Title: Re: Bad table selection but good hands Post by: Royal Flush on December 22, 2006, 09:05:26 PM a) harrington 1 says bet 1/3rd pot for a probe bet and 1/2 to 3/4s for a CB. So if i bet 1/3rd of the pot it looks like a probe bet no? I am inducing the reraise bluff (maybe i'm overthinking this). So you are trying to induce a bluff, that's not a bet to 'define my hand' b) if your hand is so well defined on the flop, why call? I didn't play the hand, nor did i close his range down so tight, it was yourself that labled that range then said you needed to define your hand! Sorry if it's like i am picking on you but all this defining hand BS has finally made me crack. Title: Re: Bad table selection but good hands Post by: totalise on December 22, 2006, 09:05:50 PM a) harrington 1 says bet 1/3rd pot for a probe bet and 1/2 to 3/4s for a CB. So if i bet 1/3rd of the pot it looks like a probe bet no? I am inducing the reraise bluff (maybe i'm overthinking this). b) if your hand is so well defined on the flop, why call? yes, you are over thinking it a bit. Harringtons book is pretty bad for cash games As for the flop call, you generally do it to see what happens on the turn. Against non nits, your hand is going to have reasonable equity against their betting range, but your equity is going to be quite bad against their calling range. I didn't realise Byron had walked over to the dark side, and that his mouse squeaked and ran for cover when it approached the raise button. Title: Re: Bad table selection but good hands Post by: Royal Flush on December 22, 2006, 09:07:42 PM I didn't realise Byron had walked over to the dark side, and that his mouse squeaked and ran for cover when it approached the raise button. PMSL Title: Re: Bad table selection but good hands Post by: byronkincaid on December 22, 2006, 09:11:03 PM I could explain but it's prob best that I just exploit my image.
Title: Re: Bad table selection but good hands Post by: snoopy1239 on December 22, 2006, 09:11:48 PM he plays 10/8 wtf.. fold JJ on the flop then! I think so Considering he has re-raised and is likely to continuation bet, what is the point of calling the pre-flop raise if you are going to fold on the flop, or do you reckon he should have folded to the initial pre-flop raise? catch a set to stack a tighty I guess it was only $30 extra. Title: Re: Bad table selection but good hands Post by: elblondie on December 23, 2006, 11:05:48 PM seems like pretty good table selection tbh. All those players are on my friends list. In the AA hand re-raise more preflop given that you are OOP and a psr is 52 anyway. c/c the turn and re-eval river. Seat 1: Tommyhill sits out Seat 2: Snaps001 ($618.84 in chips) Seat 3: -Gotcha- ($679 in chips) Seat 4: colclough ($561.50 in chips) Seat 5: Alkaline ($403.25 in chips) Seat 6: KautoStar ($804 in chips) Snaps001: posts small blind $2 -Gotcha-: posts big blind $5 ----- HOLE CARDS ----- dealt to -Gotcha- [As Ac] Tommyhill sits back colclough: raises to $15 Alkaline: folds KautoStar: folds Snaps001: folds -Gotcha-: raises to $45 colclough: calls $30 ----- FLOP ----- [8h 7h 4d] -Gotcha-: bets $70 colclough: calls $70 ----- TURN ----- [8h 7h 4d][7c] -Gotcha-: checks colclough: bets $166 -Gotcha-: calls $166 ----- RIVER ----- [8h 7h 4d 7c][Jd] -Gotcha-: checks colclough: bets $280.50 and is all-in hmmm didn't like the way this betting went at all. the flatcall on the turn where I would have shoved. the J is a card you don't want to see if, like me you take him for an overpair to the board he could now have the full house. However he could also take you for a busted FD as you are just as unlikely as him to have the 7. I'd be almost tempted to think he has JJ here and the river housed him up..I take it you folded to his river bet? You haven't defined his hand at all during the betting and that's a bit of a problem for me to determine whether it would be wise to call his river bet as your betting screams flush draw...so he could think his QQ or KK might also be good here. very tricky on the river. Title: Re: Bad table selection but good hands Post by: elblondie on December 23, 2006, 11:13:25 PM this is the hard part, It is hard to explain in a post and it is opponent and game dynamic specific. Most of the time it is a river fold unless your opponent is too aggressive. In most cases this is not true and I think that the river bet is usually for value. I think DC misplayed 2 streets in this hand. One pretty badly and one very badly. Nope dont agree, only 1 street....the turn bet wasn't good my excuse is that rob yong was teaching me to play 6 tables at once However, plan B pulled me thru Title: Re: Bad table selection but good hands Post by: theplayer_uk on December 24, 2006, 12:44:39 AM this is the hard part, It is hard to explain in a post and it is opponent and game dynamic specific. Most of the time it is a river fold unless your opponent is too aggressive. In most cases this is not true and I think that the river bet is usually for value. I think DC misplayed 2 streets in this hand. One pretty badly and one very badly. Nope dont agree, only 1 street....the turn bet wasn't good my excuse is that rob yong was teaching me to play 6 tables at once However, plan B pulled me thru what do you think is good about the flop call? Title: Re: Bad table selection but good hands Post by: NoflopsHomer on December 24, 2006, 03:20:00 AM this is the hard part, It is hard to explain in a post and it is opponent and game dynamic specific. Most of the time it is a river fold unless your opponent is too aggressive. In most cases this is not true and I think that the river bet is usually for value. I think DC misplayed 2 streets in this hand. One pretty badly and one very badly. Nope dont agree, only 1 street....the turn bet wasn't good my excuse is that rob yong was teaching me to play 6 tables at once However, plan B pulled me thru what do you think is good about the flop call? Instead of being openly critical, why don't you give your reasons for folding instead? Title: Re: Bad table selection but good hands Post by: byronkincaid on December 24, 2006, 09:30:36 AM We had only played a few hands together when these hands came up, DC's stats are from the end of the session. Also I play different when I'm trying to stack DC with 100BBs than when I'm 10 tabling with 20 BBs a table trying to get a load of MPPs so I win a trip to Vegas.
Title: Re: Bad table selection but good hands Post by: theplayer_uk on December 24, 2006, 04:10:00 PM reasons for folding is that byron often has JJ crushed when he re-raises OOP and then bets this flop.
Title: Re: Bad table selection but good hands Post by: boldie on December 24, 2006, 04:34:54 PM seems like pretty good table selection tbh. All those players are on my friends list. In the AA hand re-raise more preflop given that you are OOP and a psr is 52 anyway. c/c the turn and re-eval river. Seat 1: Tommyhill sits out Seat 2: Snaps001 ($618.84 in chips) Seat 3: -Gotcha- ($679 in chips) Seat 4: colclough ($561.50 in chips) Seat 5: Alkaline ($403.25 in chips) Seat 6: KautoStar ($804 in chips) Snaps001: posts small blind $2 -Gotcha-: posts big blind $5 ----- HOLE CARDS ----- dealt to -Gotcha- [As Ac] Tommyhill sits back colclough: raises to $15 Alkaline: folds KautoStar: folds Snaps001: folds -Gotcha-: raises to $45 colclough: calls $30 ----- FLOP ----- [8h 7h 4d] -Gotcha-: bets $70 colclough: calls $70 ----- TURN ----- [8h 7h 4d][7c] -Gotcha-: checks colclough: bets $166 -Gotcha-: calls $166 ----- RIVER ----- [8h 7h 4d 7c][Jd] -Gotcha-: checks colclough: bets $280.50 and is all-in hmmm didn't like the way this betting went at all. the flatcall on the turn where I would have shoved. the J is a card you don't want to see if, like me you take him for an overpair to the board he could now have the full house. However he could also take you for a busted FD as you are just as unlikely as him to have the 7. I'd be almost tempted to think he has JJ here and the river housed him up..I take it you folded to his river bet? You haven't defined his hand at all during the betting and that's a bit of a problem for me to determine whether it would be wise to call his river bet as your betting screams flush draw...so he could think his QQ or KK might also be good here. very tricky on the river. Wow, Dave comes back from an age not posting and he posts this one. This just about makes my Christmas (I'm a sad git admittedly, but I've never seen Dave be sarcastic at cincin so I'm thinking he's being kind...and will probably be pissing himself laughing if I was ever foolish enough to sit down with him in a HU cash game :) ). Title: Re: Bad table selection but good hands Post by: elblondie on December 25, 2006, 11:56:02 PM reasons for folding is that byron often has JJ crushed when he re-raises OOP and then bets this flop. Well the truth was I had been playing a little too aggressive, so I was aware I didnt have a great table image. So I was kindov expecting players to play against me with much worse holdings than AA. But I hadn't really played with Byrockincaid before, and he was playing on a 6 pack, so I thought there was a chance he maybe just got the needle with me. So thats why I called the flop....just in case you were interested.Title: Re: Bad table selection but good hands Post by: Dubai on December 27, 2006, 04:00:21 AM Instant call
Title: Re: Bad table selection but good hands Post by: Ironside on December 27, 2006, 04:06:58 AM i quit
Title: Re: Bad table selection but good hands Post by: elblondie on December 27, 2006, 03:41:06 PM i quit u quit what... |