blonde poker forum

Who else is in this tonight then?

I noticed:

B4Matt
Booder
M3Boy

flushy is in    :D

I stumbled accross it by accident - no emails from crypto about it.

GL all in

3rd will do me nicely ;)

how do you get to enter it?

 :hello:

Top 250 in Crypto's Xmas leaderboard (finished the other day) , BUT YOU have to register

I got an e-mail....

so did i               ;nanana;

just noticed Dewi in as well    good luck all

Well I suppose they have to try and give the rest of you a chance!! lol

Only 170 registered

playing name - solicitor, good luck all

Lost a few, ran A hi into the nut flush.....

Game #2933555813: Hold'em NL (15/30) - 2006/12/30 - 19:26:24 (UK)
Table "7" Seat 8 is the button.
Seat 1: chrisrokx (2140 in chips)
Seat 3: kartoffel (2485 in chips)
Seat 4: Cazzimma (3492.50 in chips)
Seat 5: Bruland (4392.50 in chips)
Seat 6: Dereham (2442.50 in chips)
Seat 7: DaVinch (2605 in chips)
Seat 8: ManneK (2577.50 in chips)
Seat 9: Stakey sits out
Seat 10: Loverat (2460 in chips)
Stakey: posts small blind 15
Loverat: posts big blind 30
----- HOLE CARDS -----
dealt to Dereham [Qs Qh]
chrisrokx: raises to 90
kartoffel: folds
Cazzimma: folds
Bruland: folds
Dereham: raises to 210
DaVinch: folds
ManneK: folds
Stakey: folds
Loverat: folds
chrisrokx: calls 120
----- FLOP ----- [Js Qc Jc]
chrisrokx: checks
Dereham: checks
----- TURN ----- [Js Qc Jc][Qd]
chrisrokx: bets 120
Dereham: calls 120
----- RIVER ----- [Js Qc Jc Qd][5d]
chrisrokx: bets 300
Dereham: raises to 720
chrisrokx: calls 420
----- SHOW DOWN -----
Dereham: shows [Qs Qh] (Four of a kind, Queens, Jack high)
chrisrokx: mucks hand  [Ac Jd]
Dereham collected 2145 from Main pot
----- SUMMARY -----
Total pot 2145 Main pot 2145 Rake 0
Board [Js Qc Jc Qd 5d]
Seat 1: chrisrokx mucked  [Ac Jd]
Seat 3: kartoffel folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: Cazzimma folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: Bruland folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: Dereham showed [Qs Qh] and won (2145) with Four of a kind, Queens, Jack high
Seat 7: DaVinch folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: ManneK (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: Stakey (small blind) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 10: Loverat (big blind) folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Table "8" Seat 1 is the button.
Seat 1: Flushyp4c (2060 in chips)
Seat 2: mrJR sits out
Seat 3: King005 (1705 in chips)
Seat 4: Mezhiks (2350 in chips)
Seat 5: Billy1234 (1700 in chips)
Seat 6: Nelly44 (2720 in chips)
Seat 7: Argh (2030 in chips)
Seat 8: Rocked1 (6795 in chips)
Seat 9: FiskMupp1 (3225 in chips)
Seat 10: marxn1 (5475 in chips)
mrJR: posts small blind 15
King005: posts big blind 30
----- HOLE CARDS -----
dealt to Flushyp4c [Td 7d]
Mezhiks: folds
Billy1234: folds
Nelly44: folds
Argh: folds
Rocked1: calls 30
FiskMupp1: folds
marxn1: folds
Flushyp4c: raises to 150
mrJR: folds
King005: calls 120
Rocked1: calls 120
----- FLOP ----- [Th 8c Tc]
King005: checks
Rocked1: checks
Flushyp4c: bets 120
King005: folds
Rocked1: calls 120
----- TURN ----- [Th 8c Tc][3d]
Rocked1: checks
Flushyp4c: bets 300
Rocked1: calls 300
----- RIVER ----- [Th 8c Tc 3d][2c]
Rocked1: bets 690
Flushyp4c: calls 690
----- SHOW DOWN -----
Rocked1: shows [4d 4c] (Two Pairs, Tens and Fours, Eight high)
Flushyp4c: shows [Td 7d] (Three of a kind, Tens, Eight high)
Flushyp4c collected 2685 from Main pot
----- SUMMARY -----
Total pot 2685 Main pot 2685 Rake 0
Board [Th 8c Tc 3d 2c]
Seat 1: Flushyp4c (button) showed [Td 7d] and won (2685) with Three of a kind, Tens, Eight high
Seat 2: mrJR (small blind) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: King005 (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 4: Mezhiks folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: Billy1234 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: Nelly44 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: Argh folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: Rocked1 showed [4d 4c] and lost with Two Pairs, Tens and Fours, Eight high
Seat 9: FiskMupp1 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 10: marxn1 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

oops had an accident..........trip aces into rivered flush     down to 1200

Time to change gears ...........

Game #2933912773: Hold'em NL (50/100) - 2006/12/30 - 19:56:07 (UK)
Table "11" Seat 8 is the button.
Seat 1: Stugan (4220 in chips)
Seat 3: Pkrking1 (6720 in chips)
Seat 4: Jungleste (3895 in chips)
Seat 5: Sparkonge (2545 in chips)
Seat 6: ThierryH (3195 in chips)
Seat 7: Bhoys07 (1195 in chips)
Seat 8: remiha87 (1945 in chips)
Seat 9: M3Boy (3050 in chips)
Seat 10: Phantom99 (2540 in chips)
M3Boy: posts small blind 50
Phantom99: posts big blind 100
----- HOLE CARDS -----
dealt to M3Boy [9d 8c]
Stugan: folds
Pkrking1: folds
Jungleste: folds
Sparkonge: folds
ThierryH: folds
Bhoys07: folds
remiha87: folds
M3Boy: calls 50
Phantom99: checks
----- FLOP ----- [7d 2h Kc]
M3Boy: checks
Phantom99: bets 200
M3Boy: calls 200
----- TURN ----- [7d 2h Kc][4c]
M3Boy: bets 300
Phantom99: calls 300
----- RIVER ----- [7d 2h Kc 4c][Kh]
M3Boy: bets 500
Phantom99: folds
Returned uncalled bets 500 to M3Boy
M3Boy: doesn't show hand
M3Boy collected 1200 from Main pot
----- SUMMARY -----
Total pot 1200 Main pot 1200 Rake 0
Board [7d 2h Kc 4c Kh]
Seat 1: Stugan folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: Pkrking1 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: Jungleste folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: Sparkonge folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: ThierryH folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: Bhoys07 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: remiha87 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: M3Boy (small blind) collected 1200
Seat 10: Phantom99 (big blind) folded on the River

Accident, lost 800 - all in, re raise all in - both after me

Laid down JJ

Hands??  AK (first all in) A9 (second all in)

(Woulda won with FH and had 9000 chips- lol)

out.........  blinds 75/150    2 limpers   i push from the highjack with 68 spades (1005 chips)  ....blinds fold,limper 1 folds,limper 2 calls (200 chips more than me)  .  he has ace jack.  8 on flop   ace on turn jack on river.
good luck guys

Just lost 10k pot with KK v JJ with J on river.

I run good

Recovery continues ;)

Game #2934330603: Hold'em NL (100/200) - 2006/12/30 - 20:31:42 (UK)
Table "2" Seat 9 is the button.
Seat 1: 888kwh (2130 in chips)
Seat 2: ><)))*> (2891 in chips)
Seat 3: MrLoopy (11655 in chips)
Seat 4: Holland_ (902 in chips)
Seat 5: sixtynine (5439 in chips)
Seat 6: M3Boy (3405 in chips)
Seat 7: SirRalph (4848 in chips)
Seat 8: anodaram (7101 in chips)
Seat 9: Mrstar (1937.50 in chips)
Seat 10: Blackkat (10509 in chips)
Blackkat: posts small blind 100
888kwh: posts big blind 200
----- HOLE CARDS -----
dealt to M3Boy [Ah Ac]
><)))*>: folds
MrLoopy: folds
Holland_: folds
sixtynine: folds
M3Boy: raises to 600
SirRalph: folds
anodaram: calls 600
Mrstar: folds
Blackkat: folds
888kwh: calls 400
----- FLOP ----- [9c Kd 6d]
888kwh: checks
M3Boy: bets 800
anodaram: raises to 6501 and is all-in
888kwh: is all-in 1530
M3Boy: is all-in 2005
Returned uncalled bets 3,696 to anodaram
----- TURN ----- [9c Kd 6d][4h]
----- RIVER ----- [9c Kd 6d 4h][7d]
----- SHOW DOWN -----
anodaram: shows [Qc Kc] (A Pair of Kings, Queen high)
888kwh: shows [Jc Ks] (A Pair of Kings, Jack high)
M3Boy: shows [Ah Ac] (A Pair of Aces, King high)
M3Boy collected 2550 from Side pot #1
M3Boy collected 6490 from Main pot
----- SUMMARY -----
Total pot 9040 Main pot 6490 Side pot #1 2550 | Rake 0
Board [9c Kd 6d 4h 7d]
Seat 1: 888kwh (big blind) showed [Jc Ks] and lost with A Pair of Kings, Jack high
Seat 2: ><)))*> folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: MrLoopy folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: Holland_ folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: sixtynine folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: M3Boy showed [Ah Ac] and won (9040) with A Pair of Aces, King high
Seat 7: SirRalph folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: anodaram showed [Qc Kc] and lost with A Pair of Kings, Queen high
Seat 9: Mrstar (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 10: Blackkat (small blind) folded before Flop (didn't bet)

lol such a rack!

Welcome to my Table Fish!! ;)

just gone, gl all left

says the boy who raises with 7 10 and flops 10 10 x !!

UL and cheers Booder/Dewi

I didnt need to hit trips to win that pot, you needed your 2 outter to get it in 3 way!

Just ran into the monster that is KJo....

UL James

KJ Brave move by him

U FISH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

lol

lol sned it!


KJ was a moron, he didnt even think!

And u call me a card rack??????????????????

Game #2934601983: Hold'em NL (150/300) - 2006/12/30 - 20:49:43 (UK)
Table "2" Seat 9 is the button.
Seat 2: Popeye77 (2271 in chips)
Seat 3: MrLoopy (12705 in chips)
Seat 4: Flushyp4c (2317.50 in chips)
Seat 5: sixtynine (8380 in chips)
Seat 6: M3Boy (8290 in chips)
Seat 7: SirRalph (5248 in chips)
Seat 8: Nelly44 (6953 in chips)
Seat 9: Mrstar (7754 in chips)
Seat 10: Blackkat (14105 in chips)
Blackkat: posts small blind 150
Popeye77: posts big blind 300
----- HOLE CARDS -----
dealt to M3Boy [Js Jc]
MrLoopy: folds
Flushyp4c: raises to 2317.50 and is all-in
sixtynine: folds
M3Boy: raises to 8290 and is all-in
SirRalph: folds
Nelly44: folds
Mrstar: folds
Blackkat: folds
Popeye77: folds
Returned uncalled bets 5,972.50 to M3Boy
----- FLOP ----- [Qs 3d 9c]
----- TURN ----- [Qs 3d 9c][4c]
----- RIVER ----- [Qs 3d 9c 4c][6c]
----- SHOW DOWN -----
M3Boy: shows [Js Jc] (A Pair of Jacks, Queen high)
Flushyp4c: shows [Qc Jd] (A Pair of Queens, Jack high)
Flushyp4c collected 5085 from Main pot
----- SUMMARY -----
Total pot 5085 Main pot 5085 Rake 0
Board [Qs 3d 9c 4c 6c]
Seat 2: Popeye77 (big blind) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: MrLoopy folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: Flushyp4c showed [Qc Jd] and won (5085) with A Pair of Queens, Jack high
Seat 5: sixtynine folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: M3Boy showed [Js Jc] and lost with A Pair of Jacks, Queen high
Seat 7: SirRalph folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: Nelly44 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: Mrstar (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 10: Blackkat (small blind) folded before Flop (didn't bet)


 ;grr; ;grr;

Trapped ya, mugs like u stacking off with 1 out.....

And now they move me!!!!!!!!!!

FFS, that fish is gonna give my chips to someone else now!!

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

COME TO MY TABLE AGAIN FLUSHY!!!!!!!!!!

 rotflmfao

Such a f'kin luckbox

Better lucky than good eh ?????

:)

Nice double up m3.
Ayyyaaaarrr!

KNEW ud pi$$ my chips away James!!!

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

I walked into a hero caller.

SS raises to 1800, button calls, i push for 8500 willing to take the SS on with the overlay, the Button called with 99.

Can't account for mugs!

We don't all get paid off with the biggies!

NO, but you get paid of on 3 outers ;p

SHIP IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Only because KJ had decided he wanted to play for stacks!

Gone!!  Fantastic insta-call by him though it has to be said  ::)

Table "1" Seat 8 is the button.
Seat 1: 007apr (12515 in chips)
Seat 2: TIZWOZ13 (29378 in chips)
Seat 3: RRpoker (24133 in chips)
Seat 4: Ride-It (12475 in chips)
Seat 5: Beaner (19347.50 in chips)
Seat 6: Ric210515 (23854 in chips)
Seat 8: Acegolf (14960 in chips)
Seat 9: ~ladybug~ (23350 in chips)
~ladybug~: posts the ante 75
007apr: posts the ante 75
TIZWOZ13: posts the ante 75
RRpoker: posts the ante 75
Ride-It: posts the ante 75
Beaner: posts the ante 75
Ric210515: posts the ante 75
Acegolf: posts the ante 75
~ladybug~: posts small blind 300
007apr: posts big blind 600
----- HOLE CARDS -----
dealt to Ride-It [Th Tc]
TIZWOZ13: folds
RRpoker: raises to 2100
Ride-It: raises to 12400 and is all-in
Beaner: folds
Ric210515: folds
Acegolf: folds
~ladybug~: folds
007apr: raises to 12440 and is all-in
RRpoker: folds
Returned uncalled bets 40 to 007apr
----- FLOP ----- [8s As 9d]
----- TURN ----- [8s As 9d][7s]
----- RIVER ----- [8s As 9d 7s][4h]
----- SHOW DOWN -----
007apr: shows [Qd Ad] (A Pair of Aces, Queen high)
Ride-It: shows [Th Tc] (A Pair of Tens, Ace high)

He is the mug who insta called all in with KJ vs me!

He play good

They NEVER pass 2 high cards.

Gone in 18th.

I have 8800 with blinds 800 1600. And I am on the button

SB has 18k back
BB has 12K back

I have made up my mind already that if it is folded to me, I am all in.

They have to have a fairly good hand to call right?? You would think so!!

SB INSTA calls with A 5 o/s

BOOM!!

GL anyone I know left in

I call there, you have 5BB, its 3 spots only.

unlucky Paul, good effort

Thats cos ur a fish James.

8000 call (half your stack) with A 5 to win 11200 - not even 2 to 1 - he is still healthy with 18k. Loose and he is a shortie.

He can use that 8k to RAISE with and pick up the blinds.

Its not 8k though, its 8k+1.6k+0.8k+antes(1.35k)

I don't care about being healthy, 6th pays $0

James, you always argue with me on any topic.

I dont care what you say, at 18k he is healthy (in fact a double through puts him 2nd!!) - 3rd pays the same as 1st. Limping into 3rd is as good as winning the damn thing!!!

He risked 50% of his chips with that was a 6/4 shot at best on odds of not even 2 to 1. There was no need to risk this imo. Read ANY article of satelites and they will say the same.

He looses that pot , doubles back up and he is not much better of than the 18k.

The 8k for him to call could be put to far far better use.

Personally I loved the call - I needed to double - he didnt!!!

I would appreciate others views on this

you are right if there are lots of seats but there are only 3.

If i am you i hate the call, i would rather take the 4k in blinds+antes.

playing that way will win you the odd seat if you want to win multiple seats you cannot make that call ever. My strategy peice has won sonewhere in the region of 50+ seats just from the people who have contacted me in the last  6 months  and that is the worst call and breaking the cardinal rule on how to win these things. Gl to you if you win the seats but over a period of time that call will lose you far more seats than it will win you.

The 4k in blinds and Ante's does nothing for me. I would prefer 20k - THAT I can play with.

12k I cant.

HORAAAH!!! Some sense at last!!!!

Nuff said

If you say so!

                                   

                              ;popcorn;

Its not just me though James.

Its comman sense!

Take off your "I will argue with M3boy over anything" hat , and you would see it to

Get off the forum you addict!!! lol

I do not profess to be a sat expert, i hardly play them, there are easier ways of winning $10k.

I can't see how its common sense, i can't be swung around to your opinion by "make calls like that and you lose seats overall" there is no substance there.

The average stack with 18 left would have been just under 25k, if i have 18k i want to get some chips together as its much easier to lead from the front in these things. If i find myself in the situation of being able to call 8k to win 12k with a 58-42 edge then i am taking it, unlike you i don't poses the skill to find "a better situation"

First post of sense you have made on this topic so far.

wasnt his oppinion it is mine and is a fact. Speak to anyone who wins multiple sats for 10k+ a time ( I have won over 10 in the last 2 years) and they will say the same. Many blondites who specialise in the sats play to the strict rules set out in my satelitte peice, speak to people who have won multiple seats. It is not your area of expertise by your own admittance and I would not question your ability to win cash/mtts etc online but sats are my only area of expertise and I can assure you if you make that call over and over you will not have a strike rate anywhere like mine ( at one stage it stood at 7 wins from 26 sats before I started playing them for others as well ). To win these calling is the cardinal sin.

Give it up m8, its like getting Blood from a stone getting Flushy to agree with my point of view lol

Again you have gone no distance to explaining why other than saying "i am considerably better than thou"

There is T425,000 in play, 18 left (av is therefore just shy of 24k) its 800-1600-200. You have 19k having posted 800+200 you have 18k.

A player in LP open pushes, you can be fairly certain his range is any 2 cards. You are 58% vs any 2 cards, there is now 13k in the pot, 8k for you to call (1.625-1) now you say the optimum move here is to pass, i can't see how that's correct but i'll take your word for it as Betfair wouldn't have got you to write that piece if it was pish, rather than on your massive sample size of sat victory's.

Anyway my question is this, when you have half the average stack and an 'M' of under 5 with only 1/6 players in the remaining field getting a seat what % does your hand need to be vs the oppos range to call getting 1.625-1?

Edited to correct the SB's stack, also now adding in the factor that if we lose the pot we have 10k still to make a comeback with.

Sorry, my mistake (See how easy it is James?)

It is the SB who had 18k and makes the insta call
The BB has 12k

Hence when I said "He calls for almost 50% of his stack"

Ok the same question still goes to russ, i will edit my reply to make it 18k

It's a bit hard to agree to your point of view when you make no attempt to explain it, other than "it's common sense"

James, I Have tried to explain, read my posts

 ;popcorn; ;popcorn;

This is all i have found:








Your argument seems to be:

A) I am a fish and that you need to have at least 2-1 before calling.

B) There is no need to risk it 'IMO'

C) It's common sense

Where is the reasoning and explanation?

M does not come into it nor does average stack, all that matters in sats is how many bbs you have. Anything over 3 and pot odds to call should never be brought into it. Read the articles as I got paid a lot of money to explain why i win seats mate- they explain sats far better than a thread on hear.

irrespective of who is rite and wrong here, flushy has shown the correct way to debate a topic, and M3 has failed miserably.

Russ i agree pot odds are not the factor we care about, but surely we know that 18k is not enough to get us a seat....

Interesting point of view there, based on what?

Me and James have a big history of "winding" each other up. Me calling him a fish falls into that catagory, just as him disagreeing with my point of view on many many hand analysis threads. If I say call, he would say fold. If I say fold, he will say call - that is just the way it is.

He probably takes as much pleasure in winding me up as I do him. I am also sure that sometimes it annoys him as it does me - we are only human.

To say I have "failed miserably" is a little harsh to say the least.

Debates are something I enjoy, I will ALWAYS listen to someone else's point of view.

Show me how James has "debated correctly" and I have not please.

its all in the thread, see the post by Flushy at 12:27am... and yes, failed miserably was a bit harsh. My apologies

Apology accepted.

Everything is not always as it seems u know.

Now if someone else was "disagreeing" with my point of view on this subject, then yes, you would of seen a proper debate by me with points of view backed up by facts or arguments for, but as it was James, quite frankly I could not be bothered and used the oppotunity to "wind" him up - which obviously came accross VERY well ;)

So you concede its a good call then.

 ;tracet; Errrr No! - as u well know  ;bumwiggle;

tbh i wasn't expecting you to be able to cobble together a reasoned argument for a fold.

I thought Russ might have though!

flushy i got paid a lot for my reasoned arguments why its a bad call so why should I keep typing it up on here. Do what every other blondite with a brain has done and read the article- it tells you exactly why it is a lousy call.

Not getting anywhere!

I will get round to reading it at some point, i don't play many sats though.

Does this EXACT situation come up in your article?

this exact situation is the main reason i win sats and most people dont

So to answer my question, what % equity do you need here to call?

none - I dont call ever in sats unless it is costing me less than 10% of my stack to do so

So you pass AA here?

tell you what read the articles below and play 10 satellites and stick to my strategy rigidly. I guarantee you win at least one if not 2 or 3 seats. I am not the only one who plays to this system off blonde.

part one is here
http://www3.betfairpoker.com/newsandviews/overview/group/ariston/1.html

part two is here
http://www3.betfairpoker.com/newsandviews/article/itemId/i65768359/index.html

and yes I have folded AA preflop many times in sats- this isn't one of those situations but there is a huge difference between AA and A5. My calling range in this exact situation would be AA or KK and maybe QQ. Those would be the only 3 hands I would even consider calling with. JJ or lower goes str8 in the bin along with AK AQ etc. The articles tell you why and I am not going to continue arguing the point- I win sats which are not your area of expertise, they are mine.

Can we have full terms and conditions please. i presume you're gonna give us our buyins back if we don't win a seat? Very generous of you I must say :)up

It would be interesting to see what B4Matt thinks, he seems to qualify from sats a lot.

you could always try asking matt which strategy he plays to ;)

Well he doesn't play to that in the blue square sats!

Ask him james because we have talked about how he wins so many sats at many events we have both qualified for. He tends to read articles on betfair a bit as well just to give you a clue. Don't know why you insist on disagreeing with everything I say on the subject when you have already said they aren't your area of expertise and they are mine......I'm not even M3boy!!!!

I KNOW why it is a bad call.

I am not reasoning with you, as I have already said, for reasons I have already said.

Take the piss, yes, but dont abuse me - thats overstepping the mark!

You have views on my play as I do you - probably neither are true - but thats fine. Just keep it "nice" piss take please

I keep asking because i don't understand, i am waiting for someone who has the time or inclination to explain it for me, it usually doesn't take to long for that to happen on blonde. I am not saying you are wrong for the 18371th time, i just need help understanding why you are right.

in fact I have had enough debating this I know what works and have tried to help but there is no point. Keep making calls like the one earlier with A5 and I (and many others including matt) will keep winning seats because of them, quite simple. I have given you a link to an indepth article on why you shouldn't be calling with A5 etc. If you want me to type 3000+ words on this subject on here I am not going to, read the article and it will make it clear. 

I am not asking you too, i am waiting for someone else who knows sats and is willing to explain it too me.

The links are dead for me.

betfairpoker site down for uploads thats all, try again in a bit.

cheers

You may be waiting a long time!!

Its not that I can't, because I can.

Its just that I wont!  ;nana;

Like i said i wasn't expecting you 2, hoping for Totalise to pop along.

lol well id insta call as well, so i cant offer much in this thread, i was hoping Paul would share his wisdom

TBH, why the f**k should I??

James is obviously THE best poker player, and knows ALL the right moves.

Totalise, so your reasons for calling rather than passing are ?!?!

Edited

my reasons are the same as flushys, and as for why should you? of course you dont have to, do what you want.

I will. ty

So Totalise, one last point?

What is your record of SATS won? as a percentage of played?

Probably the same as James's I bet.

I dont think I have played more then 2 satellites in the last year, If I wanted to play in a tourney id buy directly in, time value you see? my hourly rate in cash games is much bigger then a typical hourly rate in satellites. That should make sense rite?

Why are you getting so defensive? the whole basis of this forum is that people exchange ideas, and I want to know why calling here is wrong, and I dont want to get involved in childish whose penis is bigger competition.

I never doubted your hourly rate in cash games.

Ariston has written an extensive article on exactly this point, if you want to know so bad, just go and read it.

Nothing to do with "whose penis is bigger"

nothing to do with e-penis? you asked me how many satellites I had won, how is that relevant to this discussion? it isn't.

I am asking you for your opinion, you are the expert, me and flushy both claim to be bad at satellites, why dont you do us a favour and teach us?! Or is it the case that you can PM me and ask me for my opinion, but when I ask you for yours you wont give it? that seems very one sided and selfish

I made the point about satelite wins as I know you would buy straight in any.

James doesnt play them either.

I never said I was an "expert" - i said i know WHY the call is incorrect.

I have gave my (all be it) brief reason in this thread, only a SB invested and a call of neally 50% of your stack on AT BEST a 6/4 shot.

No need to risk those valuable chips when you dont have to.

Also, I did not PM you and ask for your opinon, I pm'd you and asked you to state reasons why (in your words) I had "failed miserably" to debate a topic.

the PM thing was a while ago, but its not relevant.

I will read Aristons articles, but from what you have said in this thread I still cant see why calling off x amount getting an overlay with a 6/4 chance (given that its pretty obvious you are pushing any two, thats known as playing ranges)  is bad, given the distance before a seat. I guess if people are folding QQ in the SB to a push, then folding is ok, but i cant see that happening too often.

Understand that I dont even necessarily think that calling is the correct play, I just wanted more logical reasoning as to why it was incorrect, because Id defo call there. I can see I wont be getting it from you, so I wont be posting any more in this thread.

I'll wait for aristons links to come up, they I am sure will do a good job of explaining it. Thanks for your help and time.


Regards

http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=M3Boy&word2=Totalise

sorted !!!

:D :D :D :D

Totalise, my apologies, I have remembered the PM you are thinking of.

I will PM you a full answer in due course.

dont bother, you can see that i am a strong advocate of discussion on the forums, I'd prefer that this hand was discussed out in the open so that others in my boat can see why its a bad play.

I also wish you would stop taking things so personal, especially from people like me that have no bone to pick, the comment about satellite success rates is still pissing me off, because its so unecesarry. If you are gonna have a requirement that blondes need to be successful in a given area before being allowed to give an opinion on something, then that opens up a can of worms that doesn't need to be opened up, and it negates the whole point of a forum.

OK, I will not bother as you have asked me not to.

Aristons article explains it way better than I ever could - links have been posted here.

As for "stop taking things so personal" - may I suggest you read this thread again? Between James and Myself it IS personal. Just read the posts.

I explained to you what was going on between James and myself, after your "personal" comment on my abilitities to Debate. TBH That pissed me off, but such is life.

What I find hard to comprehend is why, after someone who got paid to write an article on this very subject, posted links to that very article, that people who still do not understand why it was a bad call (and admit that they dont play sats) , continue to "ask" why it is a bad call and continue to argue why it is a correct call. All you have to do is read the article. I have never been that good with words.

If I was in your position (not you personally, but that I did not know why it was a bad call), I would of gone away and read the article - not continued to post on here.

Everyone IS entitled to their own opinion, even if that opinion is on a subject that admit is not their strong point. I agree 100%.

I tried but the articles were not avaliable

They are available now

This is such a splendid debate (personal stuff excepted), giving all of us valuable insight into the Satellite Equation - satellite with multi-seats being something of a speciality act.

So I'm moving it across to Poker Hand Analysis, where I hope the debate will continie - I am finding it educational, entertaining, & amusing. What more could we wish for?

Would I have called with A-5 in that spot? Probably not. SHOULD I have made that call? Probably.

In a Super Sat in Walsall last year, I made Paul's move, & Red called me in a flash with exactly that hand - A-5. He said "I knew you'd pull the trigger there with any 2, & I was almost guaranteed to be ahead". Damn that man, He was right though.

I don't have Flushy's or Totalises grasp for mathermatical analysis, but in general terms, I rely on the edict "move FIRST with anything, it's better than to call with a marginal". But this fails me so many times, as the aggressor got in first, & I'm stuck there being blinded away, awaiting that vacant spot. My record proves this - "minor cashs" by the score, but rarely the big one. So, I'm gradually converting to the view - if you wanna win these things, you gotta make some hairy calls in the end game.

Ok i read the first article which covers things to the final table and it says don't call, the reasoning for this is "i have won 6 sats so this is right" there is no actual analysis so i am still as lost as i was!

OK, I will try and explain my thoughts again.

The guy is on 18k with blinds 800 1600 and he is the SB. The BB has 12k

Yes I push with a wide range of hands on the button. So yes the A5 is "probably" ahead, albeit marginal. The BB is also short, and may not be able to pass the oppotunity to trebble up with a wide range of hands.

In the pot "before my push" is 800 +1600 +ante's.

The guy has only 800 invested in this pot, he also has the BB on 12k to act after him.
The extra 8k it costs him to call can be put to far better use to buly others on the table, weather it be to pick up the blinds and ante's or a well timed re steal.
Also, a call and loose here makes him in serious trouble as a short stack leaving him with one move "all in"
With the 18k he has more options, he can also "survive" 2 rounds and still be ok. In this time, it is likely that more people will get knocked out, and maybe even enough to see him onto the final table. Once there, he just has to "survive" to 3rd place.
Winning the tournament is not what you are aiming for.
Indeed, calling here and winning does not guarantee you a seat, far from it.

 Having immense respect for Paul and Flushy i read this thread and figured i'd give my pennies worth for shits and giggles.

I could go into a long analysis but tbh im never going to get pushers all-in range right. Personally, i have a few reasons why i think caling is wrong.
  
His stack is a huge chunk of mine. If i call and lose i have wasted chips that could later be used to double up with. If i do later double up i finally have the stack i need to avoid confrontation.

By calling i am forcing the hand to get to showdown.  In a sat like this i want to preferably chip away with my stack without any major risks. I want to play big pots with big hands and small pots otherwise.

It is a satellite and fold equity is amplified, especially if i have a stack. I can use this stack for tactical resteals, bluff raises, etc. These tools will be redundant if i call here.

His pushing range isnt any 2 cards. In a sat like this im putting him on any ace, any 2 face or any pair. The most likely event is that im dominated.

Against that range im not putting half my stack in jeopardy EVEN IF IT IS MARGINALLY +EV TO DO SO.

I should point out that i have NEVER qualified for any events even remotely coming close to this level. So it is not my area of expertise.

But flushy mate, i have at least tried to give a REASONED argument for why i think folding is the right play. And there's sure as hell more than one way to be a winning poker player.

How likely is it that you go from 18 players to 10 players in 2 rounds? In your opinion.

lol paul, you hungover too m8? its too bright for me to open the shutters so i thought id "contribute" here.
i must get round to e-mailing you about the D2D stuff.

Not very, but possible none the less.

Finally! lol.

I made my argument for a call based on an any 2 push range, if its 2 face, pair or Ax then yes clearly i would fold, but if a player as tight as paul would push any 2 then i think its a fair range.

Don't forget a key part of crypto, mad ante's!




Should we not just sit out and hope everyone gets it in next hand the CL on each table wins!

Of course not.

A critical point here for me is that the BB STILL has to act. He is a short stack who now has the chance to trebble up.

How much do you like your A5 if the BB decides to push aswell? Costing you another 4k (almost) from your stack?

yeah if the bb wakes up with a hand its a bad spot, what hand does the BB need to call though? I think its a pretty tight range.

i can see both james' and paul's side of the arguement debate.

A5 is marginal but also likely to be ahead, and winning a pot that size would put you in great shape to win a seat aswell as eliminating 1 more player.

for me its a fold out of the small blind but a call from the big, but only if i had the 18k in the big blind.

James you asked what the BB range would be to call after the SB calls, TBH if i had the 12k in the BB and the "any 2 pushed" from the button and the SB calls "with a wide range" i think id called with AK to try and treble up and give me a good chance from there.

I think the if you call from the SB you are gambling twice once that your A5 is good and again that the BB doesnt wake up with a hand.

I dont think either of you are wrong i dont think either of you are right i just think it comes down to whatever you think is right at the time. I dont know if paul has pushed from the button on the last 2 rounds and the SB is thinking if he does it again i will call with a marginal hand.

so i think you should agree to disagree its all down to personal preference.

So would i, i call with TT+ AQ+ in the BB

Dan, was my first push from the button.

I also think that the hand range from the BB point of view to call is very wide if he follows the same thought as most people.

ie any 2 from the push, and Ax from the SB

"ie any 2 from the push, and Ax from the SB"

Too easy. I think he needs JJ+ and AK to call.

With close to 10xBB , I dont see them folding any PP tbh.

 :o

lol, im going to the inlaws for lunch now, i will look forward to reading this debate when i come back ;popcorn;

I personally would not ship it with ANY pp.

I am saying, I have seen MANY people not be able to pass a PP here.

Yeah you do get utter numpty's but i think most of them are out by now.

Probably.

Q for you James.

Lets say you have ultra reading skills (ala Peter Costa) and you are the BB with the 12k.

You know the button has pushed with J 8 o/s and the SB has called with A 5 o/s

What would be your minimum hand for pushing your 12k in?

Ok if i could see the hands i would call with 88+ AJ+ and A8, thats the quick answer, i might change it because there is an overpot, so i may add more Ax because of the pot vs A5 but i am multi tabling now so can't really work it out.

Ok i'll throw in my tuppence worth

I think the A5 call is pretty marginal (if I was BB I'd call), however  I certainly wouldn't be passing JJ as was suggested earlier (by Ariston I think).  So I guess there is more than one way of skinning a cat.  Despite what Ariston thinks  ;)

Yes Flushy my article states I am right because i won 6 sats (betfair edited that so it doesn't include sats won on other sites or for other people) and nothing else. I didn't want to write that article because winning sats is easy if you stick to that formula. I was paid plenty to write that and if you don't want to believe the system works then don't I aint bothered. If you bother to read both articles properly you will see why it isn't correct to call. I also only did that article after I had travelled the world on sat wins and decided to give up the huge events as I wasn't ready for them yet so why not share the secrets to winning seats? I shall bow to someone who doesn't play sats though and say yes its a good call, please keep making them so anyone who does play my way can keep winning the seats.

OK for the last time:

in 4000/5000 words (can't remember how many it was exactly)i basically said I am right because i have won 6 seats apparently. There is no reasoning given in the articles and no examples of people throwing seats away with calls just like the one above. If you want me to do you a mathmatical equation factoring in folding equity v position v average stack v number of seats v number of bigblinds v table image etc I will but I shall charge you the same as I did for the article ;)

He doesn't have a seat to throw away, he has less than ave stack with 18 remaining and only 3 seats.

The 3 examples of bad calls/plays are someone calling all in 4 handed with AK and losing to AQ. A guy making a move on a T hi flop with AJ vs a set. And you stacking a guy who had QQ on a JJ8 flop vs your J8.

I would love to hear the explanation of why Ed should fold his AK, i am presuming it was 1 seat.

Just because someone has written an article about something, doesnt make it the only way to play .... remember even Mark Strahan wrote a poker book :D :D :D :D

ok i surrender, what would i know.

Gl in future sats guys and keep on calling (flushy from now on shall be known as Euston).

It is a call. If you think you are better than 6-4 then you are dreaming, there are no "better" opportunities here even in a sat. If you think you are that far ahead of the field you are either on the + side of varience or an idiot. (My record in sats is better than every posters on this thread if it matters.)

I have been known as a station for a long long time!!!

To be quite frank, this is a farce. Ariston, you obv have great analytical skills and i took the time to read your articles but your argument on here are poor. 

I could get lucky/outplay everyone and win 10 out of 10 major MTT's. Then I could criticise someone else's play. When they say why i could say, "well, i won, so it works- i must be right".

People thought the earth was flat once.

 WE WANT EXPLANATIONS NOT TRUMPET BLOWING
 I for one want to qualify for a major soon and advice from those that have been there and done it would be much appreciated. This is said in the good spirit of open debate.