blonde poker forum

From Ciaffone "Middle Limit Hold Em Poker"

could'nt resist...not sure I agree with their answer this time either......!!!


Question


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A $30-$60 game. An early player opens with a raise and you call with the  ah ks. A middle player and the big blind call. There is $260 in the pot and four players. The flop is: asp jh 3c, giving you top pair, top kicker. The big blind comes out betting. The preflop raiser reluctantly calls. You raise. The next player folds. The big blind reraises and the preflop raiser now folds. You call. There is $470 in the pot and two players. The turn is the  2d. The big blind bets. What do you do?


Answer



???

Not very good at this, however is it not true that if you have  asp kd you should not let it go for any reason and therfore you should raise

or is that just Ironside

Call him down.

Almost certainly wrong but thats what i would do.

HAving given this some more thought I would raise as the raiser is obviously holding  2c 2d

Raise or Fold. DONT CALL

Ciaffone will probably go into 16pages of maths on why it is correct to fold in this situation. I however would call it down. Even if the BB does have me beat I just dont think I could fold in a limit game for the size of the pot (probably why I rarely play limit). Yes I may be drawing dead so pot odds don't come into it but I pay the extra 2 big bets. If I lived in Elgin I think I would probably cap it on the flop, turn and river as AK can never be beat ;)

Raise or fold flushy? In limit it is correct to just call it down sometimes- there is no need to define your hand by raising as are you going to fold if he 3bets you? Poker is a game of oppinions but raising here would just cost you an extra 2 bets if he does have you beat.

yeah i'd reluctantly call it down waiting to see two pair or trips.... :-\
theres 530 in the pot and it's gonna cost you 120 to see his cards, so if you think on hand history / notes that there's a better than 20% chance you have him beaten, i think calling is the right option...

If i decide not to fold here i would raise.

If he 3 bets then yes i can pass, as he is unlikely to do this without a set. If he flat calls then i can check the river if i think i am beat, if i catch my K then i get an extra bet.

Costs the same when i am beat and i win more when i win.

2 quick questions before i answer the puzzle

1) what day is this hand being played on?

and

2) What colour is the dealers hair?

Thursday

She's a redhead

Cute too


Now what would you do?

.. and do I still get a luxury?

Your luxury is to go first

I would raise with clenched buttocks

and the AK hand?

My guess is that Ciaffone says that you should fold as you are almost certainly behind.

I'm sure that Flushie's analysis is sound, but I would probably just call it down.

That as well, coz I copied Flushie

i dont know - it all depends on circumstances. If i'd have been sat at the table for several hours watching how my opponents are playing then i would make my decision accordingly. If the big blind was an aggresive and loose player then i may either call and take another card or reraise - but then that all depends on how much the bet was and whether it meant my opponent is pot commited. If the big blind was a rock and this was only the second hand he'd played in 3 hours then i'd have no hesitation in folding instantly.

At the end of the day there are several different answers all correct depending on the circumstances and situation. A brief description of the outline of the hand isnt really enough to go off to form the basis of an answer.

thankfully the red headed dealer is cute - so at least there is something worthwhile to look at whilst pondering the decision......

Answer


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Fold. From the betting and the board, it is almost a certainty that your opponent has two pair or better for his flop reraise and lead here on the turn. Since he called a raise out of his big blind, he probably does not have jack-trey, but most likely an ace-jack or ace-trey suited. You are playing three outs at best, and could even be drawing dead. The pot odds aren't there to call and see another card.



Worldly wise Karbiner (and a few others) strikes again

I disagree although I don't play much limit apart form when I am in Vegas admittedly. If he raises you will definately pass? this means you have paid the 2 bets without seeing what he has so its cost the same with no showdown. If he just calls the bet then bets the river you will have paid one extra bet and probably be beat, if he calls and the king comes you may still be beat and lose more than 2 bets on the river as well ( I know some players wouldn't 3 bet the turn with bottom set for instance). I may be completely wrong here but raising is the last thing I would do- I can justify the fold but the raise is an absolute nono for me.

Flawless, I agree with you as well.  ::)

I dont care about seeing his hand, i am either beat or i am ahead. My actual play like Matt says depends on the kind of player, but i know i wouldnt call here!

If i am beat i still lose 2 bets, if he flat calls the bet then he is almost certainley going to check the river, and i check behind. Unless i hit a K then i might bet.

I guess it comes down to how familiar you are with Limit, i have no problem releasing a hand like this, whereas a lot of NL/PL players will call because its a 'small bet'

On top of all this, i setup a much tougher game to read, if say it goes check check on the river and i show my 1 pair 3 bet on the turn, then when i get a set and someone has bottom 2 pair 2 rounds later and i raise them on the turn they will be more willing to re-raise knowing i am the kind of player who will raise for information. i find with limit you build a massive edge by making yourself hard to read, a good way to do this is never call, raise or fold (except certain scenarios. like tryign to suck others in etc)

However 1 thing about this hand is i would have won it earlier because i would have re-raised with AK in position pre flop and this guy wouldnt have been in the pot!

Perfect, I agree with you now

I agree with them both too.

Just as well I get two chances to make the right decision on the turn!

Wonder how ironside wouldve played it. I agree with your rational flushy and limit is one of my weekest games. Without all the relevant information its hard to answer for sure though, good argument/hand analysis on an interesting situation though. I would still call call though probably as you say because I'm a NL player and a shite one at that  :-[

LOL.

Yeah its a good hand and there are 3 options that can all be argued as correct.

I love hands like this in Limt, its where a good experienced player can mazimise his edge in the game.