blonde poker forum

LOL to deposit they require me to send copy of card (breaks agreement with bank, you are not allowed to photocopy or scan a card).
Copy of my passport.
Then they will check with my bank the authorise a deposit, this will take.....................sometime by end of week.

This is a 60 quid deposit not a 20k withdrawl.

I wanted to try the 100k tonight but they ahave said there will be other nights i could play, so they know what im doing next week do they?

and no bonus codes seem to work.

Now i can't uninstall the pile of poo.

Sometimes you have to feel that the poker sites can't do right, for doing wrong....

When they insist on proof of address, bank details, utility bills and inside leg measurements on withdrawing, everyone screams "why don't they do this when I tried to deposit"  Maybe they have started to listen?   ;carlocitrone;

You can blank out the numbers of the credit card for what it's worth.

I wasn't asked when I made a deposit - so I guess I'll be asked when I withdraw.

As for the bonus code, I signed up via the Blonde link - but I have no way of knowing if it's worked - not sure how to check :dontask: ?

I think the Blonde code just gave you the chance to get into the 100k - the actual Mansion deposit bonus is automatic, you don't need to enter anything to get it.

i don't mind security,all for it. I know t&c says proof on withdrawl i accept that, i even said that to them.
I have my cvv no and provided more than the min detail that most clearing banks require.
 but the site says play now, not in a weeks time, they couldn't tell me when i would be able to play, if they are going to have security then it should be done in a way that can be done quickly. As for blanking the card details out, its still sending a copy of card, now, if you read the t&c of your card if there is a fraud committed and you have released any form of copy you are responsible.

As for bonus code there is no way of confirming it worked, you just have to wait.

Not being funny but mansion isnt taking off in the way they hoped and its a competative market.

No doubt if someone thieved your identity, used your card to deposit $$$ at a poker site, and then subsequently lost it all, you would be complaining that the poker site did not have enough security at the deposit stage??

PS Nice try!!!
:-)

Bank have said today that i should NEVER TAKE or SEND a copy of my card, and infact no one should request this, esp the back of the card and the cvv no

if someone stole my identity then they wouldn't have info on both sides of card. Its for that very reason i refuse to photocopy it.
If i did have this happen then i would be covered because i had protected my details so i would be fine, it would be unfortunate, but fine.
IF I DID photocopy it at some stage and have a problem i would not be protected.

As i stated about security, i don't mind it but there is no reason to take it to this level, how do i know who will have access to this copy and how do i know its been destroyed?

No if you ll excuse me a Dancing hippo has just popped up on the screen and asked for my card details so i need to fill that out.........................

PS the gamer tag thing, i knew it didnt work but i cant be bothered to take it off or make it work

Yeh when i signed up to a phone contract in one of the high street shops they said they wanted to photocopy my card and said no way, and i got my contarct. There is a reason when you register your card deatils on ebay and pokersites that you can only see the last 4 digits and the rest are xxxx-xxxx-xxxx- because this shows not even the poker site knows your number so why they then go ahead and ask you for a photocopy of it is beyond me!

They do say you can blank out all but the last 4 digits of your card.

Thats fair enough then really. I dont see why anyone would have a problem with that.

Barclays bank have told me under no circumstances to photocopy a card, even covering digits, there is no reason for them to ask for this at all ever, barclays have said if they wish to verify a transaaction they are suppose to phone them and they contact me and confirm.

A photocopy of any sort breaks t&c's of card and if caught doing this the card will be retained by bank, any future missuse of card i may be held responsible,9 for not safe guarding my card). Sorry but my banks more important than mansion poker, sio i won't play there, i've got plenty of sites to chose from.

hmm it's been 3 years now but i used to deal with Black Horse Finance who I believe are part of Barclays and they (along with every other finance company) used to insist on being faxed a copy of your bank card before giving you finance to buy a car. i think it's pretty much a legal requirement for them to do so under money laundering regs but I could be wrong.

First site I ever signed up with was Party Poker, had problem with my first withdrawal, they asked me to email them my cc details. Yeah, course I will...They pay thousands for a secure signup and then do that. Not impressed.

i also deal with black horse on a daily basis,(as ive done for 12 yrs) they are not connected to barclays they used to be conected to chartered trust. and they used to have swipes about 5 years ago never sent a photocopy, never been required too, (also taking the card away to copy is dodgy as hell)
The cvc numbers on the back of cards were introduced to stop copies of front of card swipes being used, so photocopying front and back would negate this.
Cant see how it would be anything to do with money laundering, you could still launder money through a legit acct infact this would be the best way to do it.
 Infact now i don't even need to see the card at all, its all done online using a system called me2you, the questions used in info gathering during the application tend to weed out the fraudsters, and all my deals are delivered to card holding address only.

point 7.2 in T&c's I become responsiblefor the miss use if i have copied my card.

Just made a larger-than-normal cashout request from a different site, they have noted this and are requesting all that stuff, photocopy of passport, back front of credit card, copy of last card statement (signed), sign a form and send it to them saying they can transfer my money. Very worrying. Worth doing it and then just cancelling the card? Have asked them if they really need card copies, I'm sure they won't budge. Damn.... This is a real pain in the neck. Can't see why they need all this though. It's been the same card for years.

If they took money on the card they can refund it onto card, simple no proof needed if there is over a 28day gap between the 2 transactions. I think this must be an american thing.

I thought maybe it was a check to make sure I wasn't an american trying to play on their site, this site has a ban on them.
My greatest fear is knowing that someone has a copy of my passport details, my signature, my address, my bank statement, all in once place. Surely enough to start constructing an identity. Saw a program a few weeks back about how bundles of info like this were being sold on for a few hundred a time.
I reckon a couple of changes I made must have triggered an alarm with them. I used to always build my balance to a certain amount, then play with the remainder back up and repeat, I did this dozens of times. The last two times I built it up much further and withdrew a larger sum, presumably this looked odd.
If I'd changed the card number to which cashout was happening or switched to Neteller, fair enough, but it's always been the same number...
Maybe I tripped some limit that banks impose before they check for laundering, I know Paypal do the same thing citing EU regulations....

Those of you wondering why poker rooms go over the top with security checks, it's because of incidents like this.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6508983.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6508983.stm)

So they can have more information on file ready to be stolen?  :dontask:

So they know that the player is who they say they are and are the legitimate cardholder, rather than some hacker using the player's details from a database.

I bet all those complaining about the security hoops they have to jump through have never had their account cleared out without their knowledge. Once that happens to you, you become a bit more appreciative of how much identity fraud there is.

which is why i use neteller and wont use mansion because they want info from me that could lead to id fraud IF i wanted to withdraw to neteller

the fewer people that have my details the better even neteller doesnt have a card detail of mine

It's easy for you though Ironside, we're talking about cashouts here  :D

(http://img.alibaba.com/photo/50458630/Soccer_Goal.jpg)

I am one of those who really kicked off when online poker rooms made it far easier to withdraw than deposit, so I am pleased to see them do it this way, though I still think they ask for too much information from us and I also question if we are protected by the data protection act when the companies arent based here.

Andrew T your missing the point, the over the photocopy and send isn't secure, the more details a company has on file about you the easier it is to steal your id, if i send a passport picture and card they have enough detail to get a copy birth certificate, then they can open an account. Its not my money but my id i want to protect.

A simple reverse transaction requires thedisplay of none of my personnal information

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6508983.stm

That's a LOT of details. God knows what they'd do with photo ID and bank statements. The less info they have the better, and I'll give over the data required only if they can provide me with the specific reasons why they need it.

A poker room won't put back onto a credit card more than was deposited using it.

I get your point about why you wouldn't want some random company to have all your details on file - I was simply saying why the poker company does want them.

From an anti-fraud point of view, it's entirely sensible that a poker room will require identity checks before depositing using a card - I think this should be the norm across the industry. The problem though, is that a player's first deposit into their account will very likely be an impulse thing to play in a particular tournament etc and so if they are forced to wait that deposit won't happen and the player will be lost.

Long-term, the answer is simply no credit cards at all in online poker. Deposit using a payment made, in person, at a bank (or whereever) which generates a one-time use transaction number to be only used at the poker room specified within a certain time. So, you go to your bank, say you want to deposit £100 at Mansion Poker. The £100 is set aside in your account, and will be transferred when you activate the payment using a transaction number and password which you type in the poker software.

If you make the amount a non-round number (say £102.74), then that adds security. Even if someone did discover the transaction number, they wouldn't know the amount it was for, or the password of the account holder. These disparate pieces of information are not recorded in the same place and so a fraudster couldn't get all of them at the same time and spend your money.

actually i used a debit card, which is a not a credit card, you can pay onto those more than they deposit.

I use a debit card also, pay on to it more than I deposited (otherwise what's the point?)
So that's my main gripe: I take from my card and pay back to the card, that's all I ever do: where's the scope for this being fraudulent? If I cloned someone's card, why would I pay my hard-gambled cash back to them? Durrr. If the card was fake, why would I want to keep paying back to a fake card? As long as someone repeatedly took from a card and put back to it, why ever run an ID check on them? Why not, you ask? Because such a process requires me to take the risk of sending off all this personal info.

I might have misread this, but all the poker rooms I've cashed out from have done so to my credit card - and I have had a lot more put onto it than I deposited.

Without any further security checks - they just let you withdraw more back onto the card that you deposited?

As mex says, debit cards are different. In the past I've never had to send in any documentation, though that has changed this week with Mansion - they won't let me withdraw without sending in a copy of the card. Mansion are noticably stricter than other rooms (otherwise this thread wouldn't be here).

It's quite rare to have it without checks, I have to admit. I've only been on 2 sites ever that allowed me to do this no bother, and one of them has decided to start doing the check, maybe in retrospect. Most of the others won't allow the credit back to card, checks or nay.
I do it mostly for convenience and cost. Neteller have just fried me for 2% of my balance for 'currency handling'. I don't remember them sitting at the table and sweating it out through calls and raises...

Yes.  PokerStars and Blonde and VCPoker (tribeca).  Withdrawn thousands of dollars, deposited less than a hundred.  Mansion do seem to be a lot more strict.

If you deposit from one card, and then another, you can't withdraw more to one card until you've withdrawn at least the amount you've deposited on the other one.  That doesn't make sense - so I'll use an example.  You deposit $50 on one credit card, withdraw your winnings - say $500 via that card.  Then you make another deposit with another credit card for $50 - you can't then withdraw another $500 winnings to the first card until you've withdrawn at least $50 to the second one.  That's how it worked on tribeca anyway.  I've only used one card on PokerStars - but I've withdrawn far more to it than I deposited.

I always use credit cards online (and offline to be honest), as they provide a lot more protection than using a debit card.  If money is fraudulently taken you can raise the issue and they'll look at it before you have to pay anything - whereas with a debit card you have to claim the money back (i.e. it's already left your account, it's your money).

Pacific 888:
Deposit - $50 - 15 seconds.
Withdrawal - $750 - 19 days, 4 phone calls to people speaking broken English, 3 emails, and 7 swear words.

For everything else there's Mastercard.

rotflmfao

What a joke...how is it security if they take money off your card so easily?

Try and withdraw they need credit card (both sides) passport (wtf steal your identity?) and probably your height and weight, I have a good wedge to take out and this is taking the proverbial.

If you taketh why not giveth away????



 

Yes, good point, funny it's not been mentioned yet: poker sites that let you ramp up your deposit tenfold and then start 'going all funny' on you when you want to withdraw are skating on very thin ice....

Anybody else notice that they never demand a copy of anything when you are making a depoist.

There really is no fuss with mansion, sent off my passport and debit card scans (with first 8 digits and my cvc number covered), within 24 hours had an email back saying i had been verified and withdrew. Its no big deal and imo only goes to show that they take security very seriously.
Can you imagine the shit they would be in if they somehow let someone get of of your details so im sure they are airtight in their management of them.
Enough of the conspriacy theories me thinks!

Unlike TK Max ?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6508983.stm?ls

I just tried to make my first withdrawl from Mansion having deposited via neteller.

They've asked me to fax a copy of my driving licence or passport.

Not too tricky.

This is a one off request, so next time ( if there is a next time ) I can just do a simple transfer.

Why doesn't everyone use Neteller ?  I can move funds around between poker accounts without any pain, & easily just transfer from Neteller straight into my bank account, when I've made a profit ( ok my last movement into HSBC was at Xmas, but maybe I'll make a little spending money for my summer hols if I keep at it )

Why not have the money go to and from your credit card directly?  You're well protected then.

Charges ?

The fact that my mrs sees my card statements ?

There must be a good reason in there somewhere.  But I just find that Neteller is my bankroll, therefore it's easy to keep an eye on

There are no charges for using a credit card. 

There are if my mrs sees the statement !!!!

But seriously, it's the simplicity. With banks sticking charges on debit cards, & tbh I thought there were already charges for credit cards.  I used to use debit cards on some accounts, & credit cards on others ( I used to open loads of accounts to try to clear the bonus ) then cashing out to different cards, I'd not have a clear idea whether I'm losing a little, or losing loads. 

Now I can easily see if I'm breaking even, & I find I fritter less away now.   If I'm running at a slight loss one month, I can stop playing my marginal games, dive back to the good old fulltilt sngs & normally show a $30 profit instead of a $20 loss

Peanuts, I know, but it suits me

I don't think anyone can be too paranoid in these instances, especially when the institution involved is demanding personal information that they cannot justify the need for.
Plenty of evidence around:

--Indian call centre 'fraud' probe

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4121934.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4094894.stm

--Powergen parted with the financial details and addresses of thousands of customers without any hacking

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/861353.stm

--Four [Barclays] customers who logged into the service on Monday morning found they were able to read details of other people's accounts.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/860104.stm

--[BT] Customers were told via e-mail that "a hidden area" of the BTopenworld website, which contained personal data, had been "accessed by a limited number of unauthorised persons".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/729748.stm

-----------
Caveat 1: These are all major UK highly regulated industries that use 'cutting edge' security technology. Forgive me if I get even more worried about a poker site. A poker site that could, for all I know, be 8 guys sitting somewhere with two servers in Guatemala who don't really give a toss about securing my personal data.

Caveat 2: You can sue any of these institutions in the UK if you lost out as a result of these breaches, but they would be likely to pay out first. Not so with gambling winnings, you cannot sue to recover them, they are not covered.

So, 'conspiracy theory', don't think so really...

http://www.professional-poker.com/news/2007/feb/877-doj-freezes-neteller-payouts.htm

yeah just send them exactly what they need to steal my ID great move

ps i only use neteller but wont send them that info

if they want to check i am who i say i am

they can check the electrol roll

So when you win the $100k, how will you cash out your winnings ?

I haven't sent it yet, & haven't got a fortune in there, so if it is that risky, I could always treat it as playmoney, but there obviously have been a few people to have won large sums.  What's the best way for them to get at their cash ?

Admittedly, no other sites have asked for any proof of id with neteller transactions.  Is there any suggestion that Mansion are slightly 'bent' ?

i dont play on the site as i know i wont be able to cash out

but i would proberly take em to court for the money

as they are not a LEGAL body in the UK ie court police or customs they have no right to ask for my passport

They have no legal obligation to let you use their site either :(

but if they refused to let me take my winnings out i would have legal rights and could halt to there operating in this country unless they came to court or settled out of court

remember the fund are mine after i had won

Mm, not sure about that. What legal rights do you have? How could anyone ever stop anyone running a website into their country? Unless it was to China or Singapore?
Not sure the money you have won is 'yours' either, to all intents and purposes, until you have it in your possession. Every site 'T&C' I've been bored enough to peruse has a '**** you' clause, which says that if we don't want to give you your money, we don't have to, without any reason being given. Presumably to protect themselves in the event of suspected fraud, collusion suspicion, etc.

if they withheld my money i would take them to court

obviously they are not in this country so wouldnt need to come

but the judge could stop them trading in this country untill they apeared

meaning that all there advertising and sponsorship (spurs) would have to stop untill

the judge lifted the barr which he would only do once they have apeared in his court

or settled the problem with me

but its not going to happen because

1 they would settle before it got that far by confirming my id anotehr way
2 i wont play on mansion because of the hassle to withdraw

Fair enough, but I think you have a lot more faith in the 'goodwill' factor than I do.

instead of spening £1000s on a court case for what would proberly be only a £20k if i wont eh 100k event they would do something like get there lawyer to confirm i was who i said i was

but as i said it wont happen as there are plenty of other sites out there and i wont bother playing on a site that wont let me cash out

I am sorry but they are not going to pay up if you threaten to take them to court, when you sign up with them you undertake their laws, like with an estate agent and a tenancy agreement. If you do not follow the guidelines set in the agreement im afraid you dont have a leg to stand on. They will not have to pay anything if you take them to court as it is you breaking the contract! Simple as!
Before i sent them my details i spoke to customer services on live chat and got them to guarantee that they are responsible for my personal details remaining secure and as they are the only persons who i have sent these details to i will know and be able to prove that it is only through a leak in mansion that my details have been fraudulently used, which was agrred on and sent ina transcript to my email.
They were very professional and as i said everything was clarifed and verified within 24 hours. And its great if you want to not send them your details, thats up to you and keep the money on there, but im saying all this with my mansion roll sitting nicely in my bank account!
Im not a trusting person by nature but if i want my money i will do what it takes if i believe it is safe and it obviously is as thousands of people deal with mansion everyday. And i have to be honest im no computer whizz kid but give me a day and a float of 20 quid and there isnt a lot i couldnt find out about your personal details. Or at least certainly enough to apply for a credit card in your name. 

If I win 24k I will send then my driving licence, my passport, I picture of Mrs Red in the nude, and one of my kidneys if necessary.

I use Neteller too, and before I could withdraw I had to send them a scan of my passport picture etc.

When I asked why this was necessary as Neteller have already done all of those checks, the very helpful young lady said that it was required by Gibraltarian law, so I complied.

I've withdrawn from VCPoker without sending any of this.  They're based in Gibraltar.

However, saying all that - if I had a substantial amount of money to withdraw - if I had to I'd send copies of my driving license, passport and Red-Dog's kidney as well.

there guarntee aint much good when you start getting bills through your door and they claim that you could of sent your details to anyone