blonde poker forum

I am looking for some advice!

During the 2005 WSOP (yeah 2 years ago) my hotel room was robbed and I lost $20K plus. A "friend of mine" loaned me $10K because I only had about $3k left. I ended up w/ a big cash, paid him back w/ a $1K thank you bonus and life went on.

A few weeks later we were playing blackjack and I could not lose, and he could not win as he was sitting right next to me. He "borrowed $50K of my winnings and told me I would have it back w/in days!!!!!!

I was very understanding when the repayment process began to drag out. I did not bug him much as I was sure when he hit a "big" comp that I would be paid. ( I later found put that he won $52K on party poker and did not pay me a dime)

About 4 months ago I get a call from my "friend" and he tell me that he is in treatment for a gambling problem and he does not have the money he owes me ;tracet;

If you were me what would u do?

if you can afford to forget about it as a bad debt you never know one day it might arrive

and never load money in a casino enviorment again

if you cant afford to lose the money let him know you cant right it off

well for a $50k debt i would enlist the help from some "professional" money collectors, they may offer him some treatment that will inspire him to repay what he owes.

Been in a similar position Brian and it was my best mate and he owes me £12k hasdone for 5 years now, he faded from existence once he decided not to repay the money, Dont let your "friend" get away with it IMHO.

either write the money off in your head and one day you may be surprised and he'll pay you back

set up a standing order from his bank account to yours for something like $500 a month. will take forever but at least you get it back eventually.

sell the debt to the biggest nastiest bastard you can find to get him back for not paying you when he won the online tourney.

forget about it and have better judgement not to speak publicly about it again

Surely speaking publicly about the issue has nothing to do with it. A fair few people in this predicament would feel quite happy to name and shame, Brain hasn't done that....

no he hasnt named the guy and i wasnt referring in anyway that he had or would. i should have expanded my reply by saying hes not the 1st and wont be the last guy to get knocked by someone he considered/s a pal. in my experience and upbringing your far better off by taking some situations however hurtful and keeping them private. this is one such and i fail to see what can be achieved by broadcasting this sorry situation on a public forum.

1) I could hire someone to take care of it!
2) I could cause trouble for my "friend"
3) I could just forget about it!

The reason I posted the question is that this "friend" had duped  me and I thought I could get some simple advice and start a discussion about loaning money to friends !

If someone learns from my mistake I would be happy to know that I helped someone else avoid something that really sucks. Its not just about the $$$$ either, it sucks that he would win $52K and not even think of paying me back!

you could be right, I dont know

He would be broadcasting it if he mentioned the guy by name, he didn't. He was his friend, he was in need, his friend borrowed under the pretext of paying back, he didn't, it's similar to theft if he shows no intention of repaying. Very valid material for a forum discussion, in my opinion.
Best not lend. Lesson learnt.

what does brian gain from this announcement apart from warning others which i doubt has any effect as i believe you have to experience this behaviour before you can prepare against it.

why does he have to have something to gain? a lot of blonde is just people having a chat like you'd do having a pint with your mates.

as to whether or not you can learn from internet posts about this sort of thing, i certainly wouldn't lend T.J. Cloutier any money because of what I've read, yet lot's of people still seem to do so...

really byron the questions retorical. if you think brian can help himself in the long term with this sort of discuussion i disagree. and your analogy of this being a pub type chat with friends i think youre mistaken,this forum is reported and commented on far and wide and does not recieve the type of confidentiality youd expect from such.

ok i think you're right this is a very public wide read forum.
I think if I lent someone 50 grand I'd be pretty pissed off if he was clearly making no effort to get it back to me. But if this was a friend I'd be hurt as well, it seems to demonstrate that he has more to gain by running off with the money than he sought to gain from the friendship. So pissed off and hurt, I'd want to share it in a community, softens the blow.
I'd be worried about confidentiality if he was mentioning names, but he was wise enough not to.
It happened to me, wsop07, for a much smaller amount, it's not a nice experience.

i dont think you gain or soften the blow by sharing this hurt on a public forum but thats me as an individual,others may have a different outlook. i dont need others to tell me how bad ive been treated,its self evident. if as i do you dont think theres anything to be gained in warning people i further see no reason. this doesnt mean i dont understand or sympathise. so what advice am i looking for or likely to gain other than peoples agreement that ive been hard done by?

someone taking $50k swings obviously HAS got a serious gambling problem and is right to seek treatment. plus side for Brian is it's a cut from what must have been a huge BJ winning streak rather than out of his life savings. It's all relative I suppose but it has to get chalked up to experience. Just turns the stomach of little guys like us to think of $50k swings

Live and learn from it mate and don't lose sleep over money- worse things in life

write it off and then if you ever do get it back it will be a bonus (as you aren't likely to see it again if you are honest with yourself its pointless getting upset about it)

That sucks. I know the feeling - I'm still chasing £3k I lent to a player in September 2006, who even when cashing for some fairly huge sums - e.g. $100k, has been unable to pay me back! Rude beyond belief.

I think this thread serves a purpose in that it acts as a good warning to others not to lend money in the casino environment. It seems there are many stories of players borrowing money off 'friends' and conveniently forgetting to pay it back.

I just couldn't comprehend lending that amount of money even to my own brother let alone a gambling aquaintance. I hope you get something back.

Having once lost £1k in this situation I have now adopted  ...don't borrow - don't lend. All of my friends know this & as a result they never would ask. I hope you at least get some of your dosh back fella.

If I'm winning big (seldom) I get very generous all of a sudden also, being on a high I guess. As an Ultimate Bet poker player I have the pleasure of being begged at EVERY DAY (wtf), was on a massive rush in a cash game and considered giving in to the pestering stranger. He was only asking for a 20th of my winnings, so it seemed rude not to, hell an hour ago it wasn't even my money. Just say 'no'....

Wow, to wait 2 years is insane, I would be aggressively pursuing this debt. To see others in the thread that have been stiffed by poker 'friends' does not surprise me in the slightest, a common theme across all the continents.

Iceman, please put the pipe down.... Regardless of the specifics of Brian's situation, it is important to get the message out there to amateurs coming into the poker world that this is a common story on the circuit. I don't know whether you play the circuit etc. but it is cliquey. People see you winning and they are keen to welcome a naive hotshot into the group, players get overwhelmed and leaned on to throw a couple of thousand here or loan me for a week because it is the 'done' thing between a huge majority of players. Some of these guys are out to suck money from anyone who, in most cases, are nice guys looking to help out a friend in need. It is a vicious circle and can get very messy.

Brian, do you believe the story that your mate is being treated for a gambling problem? Or do you think this is a sob story to get out of paying you the cash?

I heard one perpetual loan-asker use the same excuse (of a certain relative dying the day before) 3 times in seperate months (to the same guy!) when trying to secure another swift £250.

reading just a few books I was amazed at how much talk there is of this guy going broke and borrowing off that guy for a bit just maybe 20 grand. Ungar for example, so many people repeatedly buying into his action.

Why are these people never named and shamed?

My opinion Brian is that if this guy was on a loosing streak and borrowed $50k of you then he has likely borrowed from others too and winning $52k may have been a drop in the ocean to what he actually owes.

Even if you are the only person he owed money, giving you back $50k would leave him with $2k and virtually no bankroll at all (im assuming hes a big time player). To be gambling at those kind of stakes when broke he obviously has a problem and would undoubtedly want to use the $52k to chase his lost cash and most likely playing on tilt. Its pretty inevitable playing under that kind of pressure he is unlikely to win.

I would have a word with him and say "I know you are going through a bad spell, you were good enough to give me a loan when I needed it and I look forward to the day I see you comeback on form, dont worry about the money I know you will pay me back when you can"

You cant get blood out of a stone so you may never get your money back but he is more likely to pay you before Joe Bloggs who threatened to shoot his kneecaps.

Comparing unpaid debt to marital betrayal is bit overdramatic.

wsopin07 hasn't done anything wrong so why having a dig at him?

1 and 2.
They guy's no friend, probably had something to do with your room being broken into. If he was that desperate for money I wouldn't put it past him.

Some tough-looking guys approached me in the casino and had heard third-party about the money I'm owed. I was offered option 1 above for half of the debt cost. e.g. I would get £1,500, the guys collecting the cash would get £1,500.

However, it all sounded a bit dodgy to me, and not sure if it's something I want to get involved in...

for sure. prison food tastes pretty lousy these days I hear.

Prison for who? Paying someone to collect a debt isn't an imprisonable offence afaik, or is it?. By dodgy I mean they said "don't worry we'll get that money for you. He will pay. 100% guaranteed". They didn't say what methods or tactics were going to be used. It could just be gentle persuasion?

Probably is. Probably they get Carol Vordermann to visit them, have a nice cup of tea, and discuss together a long term low interest repayment plan that best suits the circumstances of both parties.
Or maybe some of this:

 8) ;yellowcard; ;grr; ;snoopy'sguns; ;nemesis; ;nemesis; ;hide; ;frustrated; ;smackedbottom;

I've never been on the receiving end of these guys, so I have no way of knowing. Maybe I was jumping to conclusions when I noticed that they all seem to be huge guys. I did meet one of them once, an ex-bouncer. He had no neck, 3 teeth, and a tatoo on each hand, one said 'H.A.T.E' and the other said 'H.A.T.E'. I don't know what methods he employed, must have used the gentle art of persuasion.

lmao :D good point :) I guess I should just contact a solicitor and do the whole thing 100% kosher. It isn't something I feel I can just forget about though. It's not so much the money (though that is irksome in itself) as the principle. and the fact that someone can cash $100k in a tourney, and not offer to pay back £3k he owes.

as someone who myself have been on either end of this brian i have owed upwards of £5k and been owed upwards of £5k i know what you must be going threw with this guy,  but my advice is a little diffrent to above i can understand why you are pissed off at this guy winning $52 in a comp and not paying you back but he will owe alot of pepole and also have alot of depts at home maybe things he HAD to pay where as you are not someone he feels he HAS to pay back quickly i dont know the guy but that is the way it works in alot of situations the best thing to do is not to lend or borrow but sometimes you have no choice but to if it has been a really bad night,  i think takeing it to a dept collector could have major problems for you he will pay you back most likely but it wouldnt stop there i have taken this route with a dept in the past i sold a £1k dept for £700 and they collected the £1k of the guy in small installments but it causes tension when you see this person and depending who they are it can backfire on you

i would presonally call the person most likely he wont answer his phone to you and leave a nice message offer him your support if you feel he is a genuinely good tournyment player tell him you will sponsor him into a couple of small events and see if he can make you something back in that way try offering him a way out he will be feeling terrible about it inside but he may also of had $20k here or $10k there is could of paid you back but felt he couldnt pay you in small chunks explaine that you will accept that, and also try and set a meet up if he gets back to you then you can talk threw ways around the situation explaine that you dont want to take the bad dept route but you may have to as you are in a bad position yourself or something like that, just try and help him threw it rather than jumping on him if you do that you wont see him for dust

hope it helps   
stu

also all gambling depts are non inforceable, ive had it done to me for a little less but told basicly to go **** myself if i think im getting a penny back, i got it all back but that isnt the point dont push it that far that he move away new life new pals to borrow off it could and does happen lol

i think you should read again what ive wrote and maybe youll understand that what im trying to do is  convey the idea that keeping a situation like this private, will in the long run be far more rewarding and character building than anything else achievable by this type of thread. which i feel is as ive already said i dont you can prewarn over, obviously some disagre. so i see it mostly as being vindictive and im trying to make the point that i feel youd be better off not behaving in that manner.

ive had a few pms with brian on this subject and im very sure he doesnt feel that ive had a dig at him

Hi Brian,

Sorry Bud, I've had a bad run lately. Can we play Heads up, double or quits, for it?

only if u have Flushy sit behind u and give u "help"

Seriously the answer is simple Brian. Don't lend folks money to gamble. I know, you are a good, kind-hearted , & soft guy, but it only leads to grief.

I made the same mistake several times, & it's tough when they spin the sob story. I've written off a bundle of money loaned to poker players. At least, by not getting the money back, you have closed their credit line!

JUST SAY NO.

The amount of folks in poker who live off nipping is amazing, & there are big, "household" names, big winners (and, long-term losers), amongst them.

Just don't get involved, & don't get screwed up if somone has lifted your leg. Life's too short.

 ;iagree; :goodpost:  I just need to look to the elderly in the crowd for the best advice ;boltpp;

Sigh

[/quote] i think you should read again what ive wrote and maybe youll understand that what im trying to do is  convey the idea that keeping a situation like this private, will in the long run be far more rewarding and character building than anything else achievable by this type of thread. which i feel is as ive already said i dont you can prewarn over, obviously some disagre. so i see it mostly as being vindictive and im trying to make the point that i feel youd be better off not behaving in that manner.

ive had a few pms with brian on this subject and im very sure he doesnt feel that ive had a dig at him
[/quote]

Sorry, but what do you see as being vindictive - mine or his behaviour? 

Either way, suggesting on a public forum that the author of the post needs to work on his/her character and implying that his/her behaviour was vindictive is very classy indeed;)

i i think you should read again what ive wrote and maybe youll understand that what im trying to do is  convey the idea that keeping a situation like this private, will in the long run be far more rewarding and character building than anything else achievable by this type of thread. which i feel is as ive already said i dont you can prewarn over, obviously some disagre. so i see it mostly as being vindictive and im trying to make the point that i feel youd be better off not behaving in that manner.

ive had a few pms with brian on this subject and im very sure he doesnt feel that ive had a dig at him
[/quote]

Sorry, but what do you see as being vindictive - mine or his behaviour? 

Either way, suggesting on a public forum that the author of the post needs to work on his/her character and implying that his/her behaviour was vindictive is very classy indeed;)

[/quote]

as i dont know you and the only thing i could have and was replying to was to was your 1st post im confused as to why you may think i was referring to your post as being vindictive. what ive tried and obviously failed to suggest (without any intent on besmirching anyones character) is that taking an over view in these situations and rising above them whilst dealing with it on a personal level is far more rewarding to the injured party in the long term than making it a public issue. im now very aware that few seem to agree with me.

perhaps theres a certain amount of things getting lost in tranalation? take your last post for example-the last line you say how classy my behaviour has been in what i take to be an ironic fashion. though as i say from my point of view ive only had the intent to assist and not be critical. so i find myself feeling misunderstood and possibly maligned unfairly but im sure you see me in a far different light ; )

It seems like a mod may be necessary here, but I don't have a blue clue what either of you are talking about  ;D

I'll pretend I do and say, keep it nice, keep it nice.

Sorry, but what do you see as being vindictive - mine or his behaviour? 

Either way, suggesting on a public forum that the author of the post needs to work on his/her character and implying that his/her behaviour was vindictive is very classy indeed;)

[/quote]

as i dont know you and the only thing i could have and was replying to was to was your 1st post im confused as to why you may think i was referring to your post as being vindictive. what ive tried and obviously failed to suggest (without any intent on besmirching anyones character) is that taking an over view in these situations and rising above them whilst dealing with it on a personal level is far more rewarding to the injured party in the long term than making it a public issue. im now very aware that few seem to agree with me.

perhaps theres a certain amount of things getting lost in tranalation? take your last post for example-the last line you say how classy my behaviour has been in what i take to be an ironic fashion. though as i say from my point of view ive only had the intent to assist and not be critical. so i find myself feeling misunderstood and possibly maligned unfairly but im sure you see me in a far different light ; )
[/quote]


It all depends on what lamps are available in the store.... ;)

Your reply makes more sense now, thank you:)

It's best to view Tantrum in as little light as possible.....

 ;scarymoment;

;popcorn;

Flushy, you need to work on your chat up lines old son :D :D :D

 ;mexicanwave; ;popcorn;

I did wonder what your sig meant...

Is that a castration gag? I'm very lost since about page 2

You shouldn't be gagging on a castration.  You're not doing it properly if you are...:dontask:

Just my lame attempt to lighten the mood of the thread!

Although i may have made myself an enemy of Poland.

as long as you are not planning on having an extension built soon, thats a risk worth taking.

lol, very good

Be scared, very scared, tantrum's gonna get you...

Actually, I think thats exactly the response Flushy was looking for. :D

GG WP Flushy  LOLOL

Flushy already has an extension. It's called his stomach. He's a Mini-Kev.

Have had a really sh**ty day and this thread had me laughing.

I luv blonde

This thread has turned into the most random thread i have ever read on blonde!

But to just say i am the sort of person who wont and cant ever ask people for money and to even think of lending someone 50K is beyond belief. Ive seen the local degenerates go round asking for money for the cash games after busting out of the tourney and its so sad to watch them beg.

I would give nothing to anybody in the poker or casino scene but I would give my last penny to my family members and friends since school buddies and they would do the same for me as i trust them 100% but to trust a gambler is surely the most ridiculous thing you could do bar sleep with a lion wearing turkey skin pyjamas!!!!

UL Brian btw i do feel sorry for you as to loan that money is a huge gesture on your part and shows you are a truly nice guy, just too nice perhaps!

KP

Ship it!


Sigh

Will you lend me £100 in Dublin (or Euros, potatoes or whatever the currency is)?

King Edwards do??

Excellent.

You don't have to worry about not being repaid by a poker player - as that's not what I am.

 :goodpost: ;iagree;

Kinboshi - how do you like your Edwards?