blonde poker forum

A question for you all...

I have come to poker with an almost religious zeal - a fervour if you will and yet etiquette is still an area of mystery.

How rude can one be without it being more than trashtalk?

Can I rely on having busoms - be it live or on line - to protect me from any criticisms - Or should I simply adopt a screen name - which no one can reproach?

Can i get personal and share details of peoples lives with complete strangers  - and i mean facts such as what they do for a living - ridiculing what I speculate the said person earns and belittling them without any facts to back up my statements -  without having to apologise - and can I laugh when someone who has voiced their discomfort at said behaviour - is knocked out?

I guess my question is - where is the boundary on what is acceptable behaviour at a table: When would you class it as someone who clearly has no social skills whatsoever and should have that fact pointed out to them; Or someone who is just downright rude and clearly rather ignorant?

I would love to know - as i experienced some truly rude behaviour on line the other day - and wanted to know what my rights were - can i report them. OR should I just accept that some people are narrow minded and petty. Your thoughts and comments will be devoured with an ecclesiastical ardour.

Firstly your post is a delight to read.  I can be an abusive person at the tables when i get a terrible beat or if somebody starts to "give it the big un" at the table.  The best thing you can do when you are faced with narrow minded moron like me is to simply tell me to grow up or ignore me as i turn abusive banter into an edge by un-nerving or getting under another players skin.

edit-  i am not all that abusive at the tables and feel that my orginal post may show me in a bad light therefore i have made alterations!

Hi Skrikera,

This seems to be an ever increasing problem, not only in poker but in all parts of life.

No-one should be subjected to this type of verbal abuse, and in most cases there are steps that can be taken.

In the case of online poker I would have no hesitation in reporting what I considered innappropriate behaviour to the appropriate moderator. I think you will find that most sites will take action.

Not sure if they can read back on chats or whether you would need someone else who was playing at the table to support your complaint.

I was playing an online tourney a while back where three of us agreed through the chat box to report an individual for there inappropriate behaviour.

In the case of live games, there will always be a TD/manager available to report this to. All Casinos do take a hard line on anyone they consider to be out of order.

The more that these incidents are reported, the more will be done about it and gradually this should be weeded out.

Never have second thoughts as to whether you should report. if it offends you - report it.

Look forward to meeting you again soon and say Hi to Rookie and Turney.

geo

I certainly agree, some people take the chat box "abuse" too far.  When i talk about abuse i am talking about calling another player a fish or questioning a call.  People that take things too far deserve to be punished especially if you are made to feel uncomfortable.

Thanks sweetie - will pass on your regards - and thank you for the post - to be honest I was shocked as they were female and I just didnt know how to respond once it got nasty...
I should say I assume they were female - due to what they said

of course not.. this is the age of equality


this seems enormously pathetic, why do you think someones earning power is a mark on their character, and why would you laugh at someone when they are knocked out, just because they think your behaviour is rediculous (which it would be if you did what you said)


you can either ignore then and take the moral highground, or you can be equally rude and equally ignorant, and thus taking yourself down to their level. If you think what they are doing is wrong, then you doing the same isn't right just because they did it first. that kind of thinking should have died once you went from single digit to double digits in age.


You can report them, o you can accept that they are petty, or you can be as petty as they are. Its up to you to decide what you think is acceptable and what isn't, but if you start being pathetic like they are, then it means you are no better then them.

I realise that "you" in the context of this post probably doesn't actually refer to you, but given the perspective you wrote the post in, it seemed best to respond in kind.

****************************************************************




many people already think this is taking things too far, do you think that people that play poker for enjoyment should be subject to such turgid nonsense in the chatbox? Who are you to call someone a fish or ask them why they called? they called because they wanted to, thats all you need to know.

I find that when people start to get really nasty it is better not to respond, and simply report anything which you think is over the line.  

However if you get the chance to question somebodies intelligence thats always a good way to shut them up!

E.G...a player in a MTT was giving me a lot of stick and kept saying "your a moron/idiot" etc.  I kept saying English only at the table.  He was getting angrier and angrier until i explained the difference between your and you're in the very simplest of terms.  He soon piped right down!

many people already think this is taking things too far, do you think that people that play poker for enjoyment should be subject to such turgid nonsense in the chatbox? Who are you to call someone a fish or ask them why they called? they called because they wanted to, thats all you need to know.

[/quote]

I do agree that i can be very petty, it is not something of which i am proud however it is something that i find difficult to control after suffering a bad beat.  I am far from an angel in the chat box however i have encountered far worse.

Thanks Sovietsong  - you have cheered  me right up :-)

Its very true that the majority of people that come on the chat box calling people all the names under the sun are pathetic individuals however although totalise may find it easy to ignore, many of us mear mortals are not so understanding.  I know a few online players that turn the chat box off completely to avoid this kind of problem.

I generally have the chat box off, not just because of the ever increasing abusive nature of people, but because it's just another distraction that I don't really need. 

its easy enough to ignore if you understand how the poker economy works, and dont place much emotional attachment to one particular hand. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, thats the game. If someone is mouthing off, theres a pretty high chance hes either tilting or hes a bad player, so you cant be getting too upset when you have someone like that at the table.

Also you yourself said that you call people fish from time to time, thats the bit that I found most irksome, because a lot of people just play poker for fun, they dont give a crap about EV or profit or anything like that, and it seems pretty disrespectful to go off on them just because their A2os beat your KK. Peopel should be allowed to have fun without getting an ear full in the chatbox.

It's great advice - and definitely a technique that i will employ in the future should things turn as nasty as that.

I was shocked to find that it still bothered me today - which is why I posted to see if this was "regular" behaviour or to find if it was just a particularly loathsome creature.

I should mention that it wasn't on blonde software - which is where i normally play and as a result have not encountered such aggressive behaviour before...

Copy the chat ..save it and remember them ..or post it on here then we can all see it and know what it was about ..I usually contact customer support who then contact, after reading the said abuse, the person in question....

Thanks for the help - I might just do that next time.

I agree however in the heat of the moment its hard not to comment.  I am no pro and maybe if i played for a longer period of time i would accept these beats in a more honorable fashion.

Until that day i expect i will be questioning a play or too or possibly sending the old wtf?

NP you are wc..I always keep records ..helps in the long term.x

hahaha yes thats something that I dont think anyone will ever be able to stamp out fully

Totalise what do you suggest to do after a horrific beat followed by the player giving you the rubdown?

ignore them and say nothing

unless it's Kev of course

gauge the situation, if he is a reg, then you should know if he is a winner or not, so act accordingly there, if he is a random, then try and figure out if he will stay or leave after a suckout (see whta stacksize he had when he bought in if its cash) if it looks like hes gonna stay, then just agree with him, admit you played it badly, let him get over-confident. If it feels like hes gonna leave, then just type "lol" everytime he types anything. Most people that give you the rubdown do it because htey aren't really frequent winners, so its not so bad if you let them do it when they win, because they are gonna lose much more often... and I dont mind fading the insults.. its like a losers right in a way.

Hi 'Ling, interesting Post.

It's a sad fact of Internet play - & Forum chat for that matter - that this sort of stuff goes off.

Online CardRooms are notorious for it.  Rise above it, that's all you have to do. I play a lot Online, & never cease to be amazed at the juvelile name-calling, (after a beat), "this site is shite" (after a beat), "how could you call you moron" (after a beat)......The same guys love giving the rubdowns, "hahahaha" after you've been sucked out. They are, of course, the same in real life, a bit of wind in their face & they are mentally broken.

Look. The name callers are spineless, & have no social skills, nor do they have the ability to deal with the adversity that poker dishes out to all of us - after all, there's so much luck in the game. Nothing tests one's mettle more than how you deal with adversity, & these guys are shown in their true colours. Tilt, & it's side efects, is a huge, huge, weakness, & failing. When I see a name-caller in a chat-box, I conjure up a vision of an idiot. Because that's what they are. His stack is there to be taken, as he has no mental strength.

Rise above it. You have a brain, & character, & are a decent person. Don't allow the reprobates to spoil it for you.

Note, by the way, how it is much rarer in Live play - they ain't got the nerve to say it to your face. Note also, & you've seen first hand two APAT Events, the difference there - grown-ups, behaving like grown-ups, see?

Am doing the Show tomorrow (Tuesday) - am I at your every whim, "under you", so to speak?

I wish you were my darling - but unfortunately I am working Wednesday and Thursday - so i will not have the pleasure of you tomorrow... ;-)

Thanks for your comment - I really have no idea why it upset me so much - and it is an area of my game that i intend to work on - even if it is just turning off the chat box - lol

OOhhh - sending youa pm now on a completely different topic

'Ling - listen.

IGNORE IT.

Or turn it into a positive. "This guy can't stomach a beat. He's weak. He's feeble. He's not very bright".  Feel superior, because you are superior. You are halfway there already.

PM answered.

We work together so rarely. Lucky for you, I fancy. ;)

Tikay - Listen

Love working with you - even tho you can be incredibly naughty!!!! Too much of a good thing would ruin the pleasure - now will speak to you tomorrow

Naughty? On the show? Me? You are mixing me up with someone else, methinks. Did you Post my socks to that lucky winner?

Buggerations no - will do so on Wed - see what problems you cause me.... lmao

probably 99% of online players that VICIOUSLY verbally abuse others are losing players, keep typing "ty" and take their money.

There you go. Even bolt agrees. Without the need for the Asbo Analyzer.

The funniest verbal I've had in ages was when a guy called me a homo after I took down a pot, I always like to use a bit of humor on the odd occasions that I reply so i typed back, how can you tell? have we met before? maybe in a dark alley behind a bar. He went mental in the chat box saying  I couldn't say things like that and he would call support, then he donked off all his chips in about 10 minuets. Tikay is so right when he says most abusive players are mentally weak.

As Totalise mentioned, LOL is usually the best response (if you respond at all). 

You can learn a lot about someone from the verbal abuse they throw, but usually you just learn that there probably not very smart. If you analyze there actual use of language when they are tilting it will give you quite a good idea of who they are and what they are about. When a teen age boy starts abusing you its usually pretty obvious by there choice of words and this is giving you information about the way he will play. Try min raising his blind with a big hand and see what happens.

Plenty of times I have been abused by the horrendously misinformed, the same few situations seem to trigger a bout of verbal most often and it just shows my opponent as an inexperienced player.

1.) Making a 'by the numbers call' in a tournament and bust them with some junky hand because you where getting the correct price.

2.) Calling off your stack because your committed in the blinds.

My favourite type of serial abuser is the 'table coach', I see the same old thing over and over. He gets a few chips early and starts critiquing everyone else's play. I love getting on sharkscope and getting there playing stats, always fun to point out that someone losing 2K at $5-$10 buyins is not really qualified to coach others. 

Great Topic.

In an ideal world we'd all show politeness and respect at the tables, congratulate each other and give our opponents virtual cuddles each time they won a pot.

But it's not, poker is a war people and there is no room for weakness. Don't let yourself get bullied and harrassed, pull on your flak jacket and commando trousers and fight back!

No need to lower yourself to base insults and swearwords or educate anyone. There are plenty of ways to gently tap the aquarium.

1) QUIET SARCASM

Someone outdraws you after playing horribly in a crucial pot. "nh, wp" is the short response to this.

Should you feel the need to vent further a more elaborate version would run along the lines of " I would like to congratulate you on your sterling play. It took exquisite vision to recognise that the turn AND river would both be 7s. I am humbled and in awe of your exceptional foresight. I foresee a wonderful future for you filled with bundles of cash, balloons and large, juicy slices of chocolate cake, stencilled with the words "I runner runnered you beeutch. You got SMOKED!"

2) THE SURREAL APPROACH

Someone getting angry and abusive at you? Confuse them with a barrage of stuff they simply cannot respond to. Some examples

Random player "You moron. If you were here now, I'd knock your teeth out"
You "Hmmm, that WOULD work, except for the fact i'm composed entirely of strawberry blancmange! HAHA SCHOOLED!"
Random player "errrr"

******

Random player "YOu cretin! How could you call WTF you suck, you total and utter FISH!"
You "I like to nibble off the chocolate edges then suck out the middle..... how do you eat YOURS young padawan!"
Random player "Errrrr"

******

Madyank runs advanced courses in this....

3) KIPPER ALLUSIONS

No one likes being called a fish. Everyone likes being called a kipper though!

Random player "you idiot...how the hell can u call that!"
You "**SIREN*** Lower the nets, lower the nets, kipper down, kipper down" (tm belongs to leehack)

You've just had a bad beat..

"***SNIFF*** I love the smell of kippers first thing in the morning!"

4) MAKE UP NUMBERS

There's often the table theorist who likes to tell everyone exactly how to play. "J5 sooted is horrible....You called with that??? terrible play....etc etc"


Table theoristr : " Disgusting, that was a horrible call"
You: " It was a 50/50."
TT : "You had a gutshot"
You:" Yeah either I hit or I missed. 50/50.... QED"

*******
"That was terrible!!"
"You're joking!!! i was 76% to hit my draw"
"Draw?? you had nothing!"
"I was on a pair draw!"

*****

(My personal favourite, taken from a 2+2ers chat)

"Yuck you suck"
"A pair v 2 overs is a coin flip. I saw it on the ESPN poker coverage last night"
"I had AA!"
"Ya, 2 overs"


If you can suck up all the bad beats, never get steamed up enough to insult people in the chat box and conduct yourself with decorum whenever you play, kudos to you, you probably have the mental fortitude to go far. Till then, hit back with some humour.

Yeah, the 'make up numbers' approach works really well - drives them mental.

Also, say things like 'meta game' or 'game theory' to explain your play.

A great one to really wind them up is explain that you have their play all worked out because you've been 'pattern mapping' them - they seem to think you're somehow cheating.

followed by something like

/enable viewhand.exe playername.dat

that'll get them worried :D

sigh, so some dude who has probably never heard of sharkscope and doesn't realise that the $50 or so he deposits most weeks has added up to him losing 2K and is basically giving you money, now gets embarressed and doesn't enjoy spewing his money away much now cos he realises that yes he is a fish.

So maybe he puts the effort into learning how to play or maybe he starts playing blackjack instead. either way another fish bites the dust.

yes - but they have to be big enough to fit either over your ears for live games or eyes for online games.

there's nothing i love more than winding up someone at the table who i know will tilt easily. Armo tells me i shouldn't get involved but its fun and there's nothing better than having someone wanting to beat you so badly that they are willing to do something really stupid in an attempt to beat you allowing them to gloat over you. my particular favourite is the "short term memory poker player" - one who likes to critisize the play of others then makes a glaringly bad play and gets lucky in a pot, usually he'll come up with an excuse like he's getting the correct pot odds to call when he isnt.

My favourite was "i was getting the correct implied odds to make the call on the flop", my reply was "how can you talk about implied odds when your opponent was all in?" :D

(downside being occasionally their 4-1 shot comes good!! :()

But thats the point nothing you could ever tell them would change how they play, they already know exactly how to play its just everybody else doing it wrong.

Exactly   :goodpost:

I guess 95% plus of abusive players online are doing it from a reactive point of view to a bad beat etc. and it is personal and of the moment.

But there are a few where it is premeditated and used as a tool. Anyone remember Fugu on VC..? That was premeditated and used very very effectively. People would duck some plays because of his 'trash talk' and accordingly earned him an advantage.

i hope u took down there username skikera for future reference

for those that may have missed this timeless  gem, i give u the tony g masterclass

http://blondepoker.com/forum/index.php?topic=13256.105

 ;goodvevil;

fugu is actually a blondite no names no pat drill but your right it was done as a tool and they played under another name too

disgusting! a blondite indeed! im sure a true blondite wouldnt act like this! would they?

yes

it might have even been me

opps maybe not fugu was a winning player

defo couldnt of been you then you mug  rotflmfao ;nana;


was refering to the original post as regards whether it was a blonde or not

I got a few people who saw me on today reprimanding me for being abusive the previous evening when I typed "Moron. Moron. Moron." in the chatbox just before I was eliminated. Nobody seemed to realize I was having a go at myself for donkamentsing :(.

Trash talk all you want mate. This is a degenerate game with bad consequences. You dont have to have any table manners, they are a myth invented by people with a fear of conflict.

People might not respect you as a player, but so what? You aint here to make friends, you're here to make money,

What you must never do is try and educate players who start giving abuse.

Most abuse given to me is when i'm getting pot odds to call an all in, eg ak raises to 450 all in. You're on bb with 200 in pot and decide to call the extra 250 with 84. You flop the 4 then get a load of abuse. I always like the reply 'it's my lucky hand', rather than mentioning pot odds. That really annoys people.

I went through a phase of quoting sun tzus 'art of war' book at people randomly a few years ago. That used to confuse them.

eg my opponent: you mug how can you go all in with that sht.

me: when the trees are seen to be moving the enemy is advancing.

That normally shuts them up.

:D

When the seagulls... follow the trawler... it's because they think... sardines will be thrown into the sea

(http://www.tattoos-stars.com/images/big/eric_cantona.jpg)

lol

ps, reading 'Art of War' just now, fab book.

No disrespect to those of you who enjoyed 'Art of war' but purrleeeze..you cannot take ANYTHING from that book to the poker table..it's irrelevat.."The trees are moving..wtf!"

Poker is becoming the 'dedicated follower of fashion'.

(a) 3/4 years ago it was all premium hands and TAG.
(b) Then it was Gus and LAG
(c) Next it'll be Nostradamus with the "in the year of 2000 but with a 7 then 88 will rule and the perill from the north will fall...ffs

Most peeps making money are LAG in (a) above and TAG in (b)..it ain't rocket science.

And personally I think Noso, (as I call him), was a shade out..it's 99

Spot on, TAG is the new LAG, which was the new TAG

Not exactly, more like SLAG is the new LAG which was the new TAG which was the old ****
[user banned]