blonde poker forum

The team event starts tomorrow and the only guidance is this...

1. blonde Poker and Virgin Poker realize that team competition offers the possibility of team members colluding together. As this competition is open only to blonde Forum members we hope that it will be played within the good spirit and intentions that we are used to on the forum. Any teams suspected of colluding will be disqualified from the league for that month.


I've been thinking about this and I think we need clearer guidelines.

Obviously sharing info on hole cards 'in-play' is collusion, but there are many ways teams can tables to either advantage which do not include this.

I'm looking forward to these comps and think they will create interesting strategic problems. I'm worried however that different people will have different ideas about what is and is not acceptable.

For me the answer is to allow all forms of team play bar the sharing of hole cards, in fact it would be easier to police if you just made it 'no holds barred'. For many this goes against the grain, we would be using tools usually only acceptable to cheats
and I've not supported team poker before because of these problems. I think team poker is a totally different game and should be treated as such.

Whatever is decided, it needs to be made clearer before we start.

 :goodpost: ;iagree;

I agree completely.

Knuckle-Dusters and Coshes allowed          :)up

as long as people dont tell others of specific hole cards or send messages saying i have a monster etc i am happy that people talk tactics and avoid stealing team mates blinds etc.

i was thinking about this earlier and was wondering msn messenger could be used or not.

had the same chat with wardonkey, personally i think that PM is ok but MSN is abit far.

IMHO   msn and pm should not be used , but soft playing against your teammates at the table is acceptable.

Agreed as long as everyone has the morals to actually not use it we should be fine!

i think we have to trust people, i wont be using it if every1 agrees that it is unfair.

Softplay is totally acceptable, it would be impossible not to.

Agreed, but how can this be monitored?

Like Wardonkey, am not a great fan of online Team events, however imho I believe the Blonde spirit will prevail for the majority of us that is why I am happy to take part.

Geo.

I'd prefer not to trust the 'blonde spirit'.

When the prize is money and cheating is easy then people will cheat. We'd like to think that this is not likely on our friendly forum, and indeed it may be less likely than in other circumstances.

I'd prefer to remove the element of doubt by saying 'anything goes'.

:goodpost:

if people wish to resort to cheating by communication then they will have to live with their conscience. any victory they obtain will be forever tainted. i will trust other blondes until they prove to be untrustworthy.

 :respect: :goodpost: ;iagree;

And this goes for the rest of my team.

Geo

a very good point, bar talking about specific hole cards.

I agree that it is going to be difficult to oversee everything and almost impossible to police any complaints, My thoughts are that is is advertised as a team game so in this rare format of poker anything goes ... if you want to have all your team on msn or whatever then fine, but this would need the full agreement from all captains.

As long as its a level playing field and hands/cards arent announced in the chat boxes at the table then i say ANYTHING GOES.

I will need to ask the real captain of our team...wardonkey.

That should read 'some people'.

As long we know what acceptable and what isn't.

A blanket ban on MSN and use of PMs etc is better than saying you can use these tools as long as you don't discuss hole cards.

If hole cards are discussed on msn between team mates, i think thats inevitable, as long as no table chat contains team messages then im fine with that.

thats the only way it can be truly called a 'level' playing field so we go with that then!

Nooooooo

That can't be right, poker is a one man per hand game, want anything else then go play bridge.

I really hope that people dont use MSN, PM or any method of discussing their hole cards.

Soft play, I am afraid maybe unavoidable but blantant cheating must be scorned upon.

Nope, can't have that purely because the table draw is random.

If team A has its five players spread across five tables, and team B happens to have all five on the same table, team B has a massive advantage under the 'anything goes' rules.

 :goodpost: ;iagree;

im afraid i have already invited MrAlex and sent an invite to andrew even though he is totally against it.

I would be 100% behind the idea of not using it but im afraid it is inevitable at least 2-3, maybe more, people are going to use it and that gives them a HUGE advantage over the honest players so the only way to make it less of a edge is if everyone can use it.

Im happier to go with the "everyone plays as an individual" rule, In fact i would orefer it ... BUT everyone has to buy into it and stick with it .

The thing is poker is not a team game, there are no conventions for 'team poker'. In 'normal' poker collusion is cheating. In 'team poker' some collusion is inevitable whether it is outlawed or not, just because it is so difficult to define and police.

If we are going to play 'team poker' then we should be able to play as a team.

It needs to be looked at as a completely different game to the one we are used to playing.

It's only cheating if it's against the rules, we just need to make sure that everyone knows what the rules are.

I have said it before and I'll say it again - the only way to hold a team competition is one player from each team at a series of sitngos - points awarded for finishing places.  A final table can be added if required same format but chips based on teams accumulated points.  Teams out of contention are eliminated from the competion.

Anything else is asking for trouble.

At least you all waited untill just a few hours before hand to start discussing it as oppossed to doing something stupid like sorting it out before or having this thread a week ago so ALL concerns could be raised and addressed :)up

I'm with the 'anything goes' camp. It's a team competition, and should be played as such. If you get all your players on one table, yes, you get a big advantage. But then you get a big advantage if you get dealt better cards than everyone else. It's the luck of the draw, and over ten events it should come close to evening out.

There's no other fair way or clear-cut way of doing it - any restrictions will only penalise those who play honestly. I think everyone should just accept, as suggested above, that it's a completely different animal from your ordinary poker game. I don't see that as a problem at all - it should give everyone a lot more to think about and be a lot of fun.

Well I won't be using msn, text, or anything else during the game, and I won't be soft-playing anyone, end of.

No worries from me on that score RD - the time it takes me to type in a text the comp will be over anyway.

And as for MSN.......... :dontask:

no soft playing from my team or you are SACKED!!!!!!!!

I always soft-play.

:dontask:

Im sorry but soft playing (not msn or that stuff) is NECESSARY and STRATEGICALLY CRUCIAL in a TEAM POKER EVENT. Did anyone watch the pokerstars poker world cup where some countries simply had to fold or push with any 2 cards against certain players because of points standings.
This is not a normal poker game and soft playing must occur for a TEAM to win. 
Even in poker superstars, a solo event, soft playing was actively encouraged because todd brunson had to get the 3 other players to come in an exact order for him to qualify so he would put cindy violette in everytime she raised and protect the one who wears ear plugs, forget his name, as he needed him to come higher up.
Normal rules of poker etiquette dont apply to a team event as when a points sysem is brought in, you are not simply playing for 1st, you are aiming to get 3 of your team mates as high up the ladder as possible!!!

The ONLY thing i thnk is unacceptablein a team event is chip dumping!!!

Now i remember why i didn't sign up - as the famous beach boy put it.......

"Play to win baby"!!

Dont forget, the prize of the seat in the live tournament is only available to the winning team member with the lowest score. Now imagine if you helped your team mate out by raising other people out of the pot only to fold to their all-in reraise to give them chips to play with and then they go and get a lower score than you by one point and win the seat into the live event.........


no squire that was you play soft - completely different.

Agree with Red, apart from some soft play, that bound to happen.....but that should be as far as it goes. Being a computer idiot, I dont know how to set up MSM, never mind use it !!

didn't DC have a bad experience in a team event once? seem to remember him posting about it on THM.

I think that was more to do with the fact that Neville Southall was unfamiliar with the concept of poker.

nah before that, it was in russia i think

Was that the time he played a team game with Tikay and friends where last three left in game avoided the rubber glove treatment? ;D

...or the concept of eating in moderation. 

Noooooooo! Different Events.

DC's was in Russia too, as it happened.

Mine was with the Ed Giddens, Racing Ronnie (Ronnie DeBeauloux) & Pat Keane "Celebrity Poker" Team, when Pat won $90,000. And then the fun began.....

softplaying will happen - anything else should be banned ... I am quite happy that I am not in, as some peoples attitude clearly shows, that they are going to abuse the internets possibilities to collude

It would be nice if certain elements of team play were banned - but I'm not sure how they can be policed, so any ban is nothing more than a token gesture.

It's been pointed out, that although this is a team event, there is also the incentive for individuals to do well.  So I'd expect it to be pretty much self-regulating, with players playing their own game, but obviously not going out their way to damage a team-mate's stack.

The other thing to remember is that half these games are taking place on iPoker software.  There isn't time to collude!  I played on the Virgin poker last night for the first time, and it looks OK I guess. 

Having read the various views here mine is as follows

Allow team play (soft against a team mate) but NOT electronic communication during an event..MSN/PM/text etc...this is down to individual's conscieneces of course as it is impossible to police

;iagree;

I agree.

You have PM.

I think this is the most sensible solution.

just a note for my team i will not be softplaying anyone

FYP

I agree- its impossible to do without shafting yourself and the whole concept is about all the team playing to the best of there abilities surely, and then the best player from the winning team getting the seat?

Good luck all anyhow.... see you tonight.... muhhhhahhhahhahhahahahahah

:goodpost:

For those that say they will not softplay in any circumstances, please imagine this situation.


3 handed at the end of the last tournament, you have a huge chip lead over the 2 remaining players one of whom is on your team.

The points situation is such that your team need to finish 1st and 2nd to win the league, the individual positions cannot be affected.

You're on the big blind and your team-mate pushes, the other guy folds.


Are you really going to call? Even if you're so dead set against soft play that you can't pass your aces are you telling me that the situation does not affect your calling range?


It's not the same game, the rules need to be different.

Perhaps if poker players in this team event particapted more in sports like rugby they would understand its not all about me, me, me. Its about the good of the team, i dont care if its unfair to the other side, as long as the team im in comes top- im not purely playing to stab my teammates in the back to get a seat in the live tourney!!!

P.S to my teammates, im gonna be soft playing my arse off tonight if needs be!!!

It's also about me as well as the team though.  Your team can do well, but it also looks at individual scores to decide who wins the prizes.

As Wardonkey said, of course people will soft-play in certain circumstances.  If you're in the SB are you going to be raising a team mate's BB?  If you're the BB, are you going to be re-raising the SB's raise?  Sharing card information and the like is beyond what I'd consider acceptable (although unpoliceable), but general tactics to ensure that you try to avoid confrontations with a team member is surely what this event is all about?

Or am I lacking moral fibre?

How can you be lacking moral fibre, what you described there is exactly how a team poker event HAS to be played.

It's not impossible to agree with your team to alter the payouts to mitigate against this and encourage teamwork.

Tonight's going to be very interesting.

can i just ask how u r planning to play tonights game andrew, soft play or not?

I'm not going to go out of my way to hurt my team, but I'm not sharing cards or anything.

thats how everyone should be playing this game, whether they do or not is another thing. me and alex have joined on msn but can guarantee you now we wont be using it to share hole cards. I invited ppl when i thought it was anything goes.

I agree.  Try and ensure that two specific players in the team score maximum points and agree to split the prize money across the team, etc.

Bollocks to that though, I don't even like the rest of my team... ;D 

















(Only joking, love you all)

Who is on our team?

Reenot and ItsMrAlex2U

I thought poker sites had advanced software with algorithms (whatever they are) and stuff which means it's easy to catch people cheating ???

Kev ate all the algorithms before he went on his diet.

ok point taken, i meant police directly a phone call from A to B, which sort of thing I hope is avoided by all

Just play, see how you get on :)

Hopefully you won't bust everyone in your team  ;pokergods;

Team officepoker all present and correct sir!!

And no MSN or other devices in sight.

Geo

Team Northern Boys will not be using PM or MSN...if other people want to tell hole cards etc its impossible to stop them.  I for one (along with my team) will not share hole cards or dump chips.

SS

Would be nice for team captains to state there intentions before the kick off tonight!

Team Donkaments concur

We need a statement from Kev, so we all know where we stand.

All players can then be made aware of the conditions via the chatboxes at the beginning of the tourney.

I realise I opened this can of worms rather late in the day, but better late than never...

Agreed.

There is a fine line up registered already and if it is anything like the Blonde league games we are in for a great night.

best of luck to all.

Geo

LOL Geo I love your style  ;tightend;

Stan's been texting me today telling me hes looking forward to taking me out  :D I said to him in his dreams of course  rotflmfao

I have invited all my team to use messenger during the event (RED-DOG has declined  ;angel;). I think we will have some inter-team banter. Suggest to each other how aggressive we should be, keep each other updated on our progress and chips stacks. Congratulate each other on our hard faught vicotry, that sort of thing.

We are not going to be cheating, all of the above I assume is acceptable..

However, regards the rest of the discussion: I don't think there is that much of an edge to be gained if you were sharing cards actively trying to cheat. Yes there would be an advantage, but personally I think it would be better if your team was spread accross most of the tables rather than having a concentration on 1 table where your prospective chips are reduced.

I have read and digested all of the posts on this subject -- and being whilst inexperienced in the concept of team poker I have a few observations

1. It is impossible, repeat impossible, to police collusion either via the site in play or other electronic devices
2. Poker is a game of essentially lying to your opponents, so do the people who say no collusion really mean it (no offence it's human nature)
3. If you can't police it then you have to allow it, because even if 90% of the people are honest and don't (except for the so called slow play) the other 10% have a huge advantage, so level the field and allow anything.
4. I personally think that sharing hole cards will feck up your whole game and mess with your head.

my view for what it is worth and I will take guidance from my Team Capitano (being the subservant person that I am)

Ger

Ok my captain has spoken - i will obey oh great one

Welcome to blonde ;)

:hello:

Good to see you on Blonde.  I agree with your points as well :)up

Bump.

Kev?

No problem here.... but as an aside, entering the comps when you have no intention of playing in them is also cheating IMO.

But thats for another discussion, I will be on msn to my team mates purely because I always have it switched on.  But cards will not be mentioned.

As the senior player in team Donkments, I should point out,poker is a game played by individuals,and s such i'll be playing that way. I could not contemplate any other way.
If others chose to use electroic comunication between each other, so be it,just makes it toughter for me

My eyes are firmly focassed on the live event for the lowest scorer from each team. sorry team-mates, that's my doctrine, and i'm sticking to it.

come on the Donks.

wouldn't expect anything else from you Brendan , but i'm afraid you might have to settle for 2nd. i believe the welsh pisshead wizard Dewi has his eyes set on the first place. let battle commence.

What's no problem?

What can we do and what can't we?

Exactly.  Glad we cleared that one up.

you can discuss tactics if you want but no chip dumping or discussing hole cards.

Soft play?

Squeezing opponents out?

Manipulating pots?

FFS ... everyone just do what they want, they will anyway so whats the point of discussing it, those that want to play fairly will, and those that dont wont ... let each teams conscience make the decisions

I have refrained from posting on this thread up until now but suddenly feel an irresistable urge to post my opinion.

The only acceptable form of "team poker" is with heads-up teams.

Insta-endofaments.

One thing that is NOT acceptable is outdrawing me with runner-runners.

Not that it will stop anyone...

My conscience is only troubled when I break the rules. I'm only trying to find out if there are any rules, so that I can play within them. It appears there are none...

Maybe we should have addressed these issues a week ago...

anybody in my team want to add me to MSN my log on is christopherthomasvickers@hotmail.com

Any other blondes that want to make friends add me as well...!  lol

ss

Kev has it in a nutshell! There is no point continuing to discuss it as you will never know and there is no way of Policing it.


Mary

(http://sithoughts.mu.nu/archives/trainwreck.jpg)

gl everyone :)

EXACTLY

get on with it everyone and have a gg

I am not playing , I would love to , but I get too involved I believe that if you are playinga game you play for the win not your team win but yours. I f i did play I would be looking to knock out my team mates just as much as the otherside, but good luck to all.

Great pic. Was that the train crash in Germany?

Something fell off a freight wagon, & hit the bridge, bought the bridge down I think, then the passenger train piled into it.

There is something odd about the pic. Looks photoshopped.

I see 2 frieght trains, no passenger train.