blonde poker forum

Villain is unknown. Just sat down at table. Posted it coz i dont normally go so far with this type of hand or play such a big pot in such a marginal spot. Q is, what do you think Villain has?



GAME #778445447: Texas Hold'em NL $2.00/$4.00 2007-12-30 18:40:35
Table Stevens Point
Seat 1: GGrinderr ($383.60 in chips)
Seat 3: Elbemal ($412.10 in chips)
Seat 5: sbcali ($480.42 in chips)
Seat 6: nikinblinds ($952.54 in chips)
Seat 8: jumponjoe ($581.50 in chips)
Seat 10: GB904150 ($512.90 in chips) DEALER
GGrinderr: Post SB $2.00
Elbemal: Post BB $4.00

Holecards:
Dealt to nikinblinds [ SA S10  Aspades Ts]
Dealt to GB904150 [ ****]
FOLD sbcali
nikinblinds : Raise $12.00
FOLD jumponjoe
GB904150: Call $12.00
FOLD GGrinderr
FOLD Elbemal

Flop:
[ S2 C10 D8 2s Tc 8d ]
nikinblinds : Bet $20.00
GB904150: Raise $60.00
nikinblinds : Raise $140.00
GB904150: Call $100.00

Turn:
[ C6  6c]
nikinblinds : Bet $250.00
GB904150: Allin $340.90
nikinblinds : Call $90.90

overpair ?

I would take villain for JJ, 8-10 or 7-9 here..either way you should be miles behind.

edit..i posted 8-10 only  but it's of course 7-9 that makes the straight..you should still be miles behind and I don't understand the push on the turn...only a hand that is beating you calls here (as the old saying goes)

I would be very suprised if he never had AA/KK or bottom set. 

I think you post this because your amazed with the way he plays the hand which suggests he had some sort of draw that failed to hit or a pair lower than T's.  I really dunno though I feel confused by it all.  Flat calls pre-flop raise/calls the flop and then pushes against your bet on the turn. 

Does he realistically expect you to fold for $90 with what you have invested in the pot and the size of the pot.

Your back early what happened?

I'm an idiot that's what happened :( was doing fairly nicely on the table and then I couldn't resist sticking all my chips in the middle on an a44Q board with AJ  against the annoying old timer (that shouted "get in there" after donking someone out earlier) that quite clearly had AK..he could not have another hand and I F'ed up simply because I didn't prepare well enough (not eating before a tourney means I always F up )

140 runners though 22k prizepool 7k for first..I hope they run this one more often.

no he's expecting Alex to pay him off..and he did :) The guy should never be behind to A10 here..ever...not in a million years....make that a billion.

Normally I would agree, i think Alex win this hand.

gotta be behind once that re-raise on the flop has been called at least 3 out of 4 times to a regular.
the holiday period does throw up some amusing newbies though... which i'm guessing this guy was?

i think villian has JT or T9

I don't like this against an unknown, if he calls your 3bet on the flop then your generally crushed.
As for what he had, well I'd normall say a set but seeing you posted it, JT-99 or some weird crap like that is probably about right

The only reason to call preflop is if you're on a particularly loose fishy table, otherwise pump it to $45-50 or fold. Either would be fine. Cold calling preflop is most likely the worst of your options.

Postflop: why raise the flop? Just call.

As played the villain looks a lot like having 22/88.

Hi Diamond. Please read the HH accurately before posting m8 ;).

Im noting a pattern here Alex, you seem to be very keen to bet/3bet pots oop on flop/preflop instead of using some form of pot control and trying to get a cheaper showdown with a marginal hand.Maybe its just a sample size of hands you have posted on here.

You don't want to be building a massive pot here, your hand isn't that strong. You allow people to play better against you with lines like this, as you end up folding out the worse hands and paying off the better hands, unless your opponent is a maniac.

In my opinion, I would flat the flop raise and reasses the turn. This is a tricky spot that you are making trickier with this line, of course when the fish shows k10,q10,j10 you like a genius but most opponents will pass these to the 3bet on the flop. Whereas you can get value from these hands by taking a more defensive line.

at a 2nd reading i am still happy with my assigning of JT or T9 but i am also going to throw A8c into the mixer

Ace 8 of clubs? He should have that about 0% of the time here. Who calls a re-raise to your raise on the flop with Ace 8? Surely noone unless they are completely drunk.

Unless this is a brag post by Alex showing how sometimes over playing hands completely can pay off if you are a total luckbox up againstcomplete and utter drunken idiots he is behind here.

you should see some of the games i play they will call the re reraise with bottom pair saying "i had you on AK"

hehehe..saw that in the 150£ in Edinburgh yesterday..someone felt it necesary to keep betting OOP with his AK all the way to the river for his entire stack after completely missing the board and the guy with middle pair called him down saying "knew you'd missed"

if he "knew you'd missed" why not reraise

its more

"i hope you've missed"

or "I'm an idiot" lol..it was not a pretty sight

Alex's image is important here

If his image is anything like what I think it is from what I see of his LAGGY style, I think Alex could be ahead

If villain is unknown to Alex then isn't it likely that the reverse applies?

Unless Alex has stumbled across a complete idiot he is always losing here, mostly to a set. 

i agree of course, but Alex has got to a stack of $950 on a $400 table, how we do not know but can suspect!

I took "unknown" to be pre-this session ie no databank of hands on him from previously

I know this is onorthodox longy, but occasionally you just "feel" ur hand is good. Not sure if it was a timing tell or the way the hand panned out but i didnt think he had an overpair and unknowns tend to slowplay big hands like set's on uncoordinated boards. He didnt seem ready to commit to the hand and i felt he was weak. Obv v any decent reg i prolly just fold flop to save headaches. Was only really worried about JJ tbh but his flop action didnt make sense there either. Also thought that he might have just been raising me on the flop to snap my c-bet and  i wanted random bluff hands to fold (in pos i flat call much more).

As for 3-betting flops a lot its a style thing, esp oop on a network that doesnt have too huge player fields. I dont want players outplaying me and playing back a lot without the goods. I prefer 3-betting as it gives me a better picture of where he is in the hand, esp how long he takes to make his decision. From there i can form a strat for extracting max.

Main point is i decided on the flop my hand was good too often to warrant passing.

I pretty well never just flat call 2bets oop on the flop anymore, just dont like the way it clouds things and suits my brain better. The turn bet by me was a value bet as i thought he had a worse 10, but obv when he pushed i was sure i was crushed.



Hmmm lol. No just thought it was a fun hand. But there are idiots out there all the time and the fact it was during the Xmas break gave me another reason to think i was good.


So full HH is here and villain had A10 too!!!!
GAME #778445447: Texas Hold'em NL $2.00/$4.00 2007-12-30 18:40:35
Table Stevens Point
Seat 1: GGrinderr ($383.60 in chips)
Seat 3: Elbemal ($412.10 in chips)
Seat 5: sbcali ($480.42 in chips)
Seat 6: nikinblinds ($952.54 in chips)
Seat 8: jumponjoe ($581.50 in chips)
Seat 10: GB904150 ($512.90 in chips) DEALER
GGrinderr: Post SB $2.00
Elbemal: Post BB $4.00

Holecards:
Dealt to nikinblinds [ SA S10 ]
Dealt to GB904150 [ HA D10 ]
FOLD sbcali
nikinblinds : Raise $12.00
FOLD jumponjoe
GB904150: Call $12.00
FOLD GGrinderr
FOLD Elbemal

Flop:
[ S2 C10 D8 ]
nikinblinds : Bet $20.00
GB904150: Raise $60.00
nikinblinds : Raise $140.00
GB904150: Call $100.00

Turn:
[ C6 ]
nikinblinds : Bet $250.00
GB904150: Allin $340.90
nikinblinds : Call $90.90

River:
[ DQ ]

SUMMARY:
Total pot $1,028.80 Rake $3.00
nikinblinds : wins $514.40
GB904150: wins $514.40

The table went nuts at the hand tbh, with him saying my play was dreadful. Fair enough, but i countered that WTF is he doing when i bet 250 on the turn?
I lollod.

You played it better than him I mean wtf is he complaining about, your line looks like an overpair.

As for the hand im not saying my way is the only way, just giving an opinion and if this is creating a good image for you to get paid off later,fair play. Im just a bit sceptical about how much your image does for you in comparison to the risk/reward of the hand.

 Im not sure how you can be betting the turn for value and then say when he pushes (same as a call with the stack sizes in effect), that you sure you were crushed.

There are more than one way to skin a cat and I will continue to give my preferred line but its interesting to see a different perspective and im still learning this game as we all are.

Whoops sorry. I'm HH dislexic. Not the first time I've done this here. Got to use HH convertor or I'll probably do it again.

Key point. We are all learning the game and there is never a right and "wrong" way.  I meant that I was betting the turn for value as i thought he had a weaker 10, but then when he puts another 340 in on the turn i figured id got it wrong. I can live with that. Image is a weird one tbh, some players use it and others dont. Iv only really started to explore it in the last 2 months or so and my action has improved.  Im not sure where the risk/reward skew lies tbh, guess the answer as always is "it depends". I try to vary between TAG and LAG and just randomly do things on occasion, but generally play player specific.

If you are a nit at the tables however and never get seen making huge bluffs/bad plays and only showing down the goods, your action dries up pretty fast v the regs. There is a long list of players that i simply wont play aggressively against post-turn because they are way too tight and always have the hands in big pots. Wheras v a weak player ill happily 3barrel them. Its not that i wont play with them, its just that you play tight players differently. Ill be sending you my Monthly bigpot sheet soon for you to look at longy, both won and lost and you can analyse for me as per our buddy system.

Almost replied to this thread, Thought it was going to be a Clearosil or Zavirax question.

:D :D rotflmfao rotflmfao rotflmfao

Longy's first post is still dead on the money despite what came after IMO. If you think your hand is good here, then call the raise and peel a turn. This should be obvious. 3 - betting is just folding out worse and allowing you to lose money to better.

How many hands did you play on your main network during 2007 Alex? I ask that because you are turning up with a certain type of hand strength repeatadly in your posts - i.e. taking lines that effectively turn showdown / marginal value into bluffs. Now, this should ensure a certain degree of action from regs for a while because it is play and thinking diametrically opposed to what is considered technically correct / MSNL 2 + 2 at the current time. But if the regs are any use they should be adapting to you and punishing you heavily for your mistakes after 100k hands.

Generally the hands i post on here differ wildly from my general line, but id agree that one of my weaknesses is always trying to get the money in on the flop if i think i have the best of it. 700k @ 0.50/1, 1/2, 2/4.

700k? Kudos.

Well yeah, wanting to end hands on the flop can't be good. And figuring whether you have the best of it or not becomes easier on the turn IMO. But if these hands aren't actually representative of your general play then meh.

Yeah i tend to post the ones where i did something a bit out out there rather than the bread and butter. I omitted in above post "trying to get money in on the flop if iv got the best of it AND IM OOP" as id rather give more to players in some hands than run the risk of being outplayed after losing initiative in a hand. A sad (but true) fact is when 8+tabling you dont get long enough to think about hands in depth when you should be.