blonde poker forum

I am at work so cant import the exact hand details but from what I remember it was.

0.25/0.5 Cash No limit on Stars

Me $35
X   $55
Y   $40

I got dealt  Aspades Ts ,I am first to act and I raise to $1.5 i get two callers from X & Y

flop:  Tc 6s 3s

I bet pot which was $5, X re-raises $15,  Y goes all in for $37

I think whatever hand they have trips, draw, top pair, two pair I must have a good chance of hitting a ten, ace or the nut flush. So with the pot about $65 i think I am getting odds to call all in, I do and X calls to.

Pot now is $116  X  Td 6c Y  Jd 3c

Turn  Jc
River  4s

I win pot they both have two pair. Now they started to abuse me for going all in on draws and being a donk?! I thought it was a pretty standard play, anyone else?

standard

I hope you told Y back, pushing with bottom pair to a bet and a rr the dork!!

I am never passing here.

Play is fine. Consider the extra $20 you win if you are topped up fully to start the hand though!!

If you are calling pre-flop raises with J3 & T6 then you deserve to get pumped. So hell mend them!

Whenever I take a bad beat the first thing I ask myself is "Did I have any business being in the hand in the first place"

In the case of player X & Y the answer is "NO"

I don't think you did much wrong post flop.

They could just as easliy have hands like KT, QT, JT, T9

Also even if you are behind you have loads of outs.

I mainly play tournies so I'm looking at it from that viewpoint but I think even in cash you are good to go here more often than not

Thanks for the responses, feel good now about how I played it.

I am new to cash and still trying to find my level, but I was surprised at how poor the play has been on stars 0.25/0.5 it really is just a matter of patience and waiting for the hand where someone will pay you off. Virtually every hand people were calling with trash. hard to put people on hands but nice when you hit the nuts :)

can't overstate this enough...as soon as you drop $ top up again the the max amount.

i disagree with that. they maybe knobs for giving out when they got beat but they aren't necesarily wrong to call with those hands.

agree with everyone, standard play.

also, nothing wrong with x's play on the flop but y's play is shocking

Looking at odds etc and if your playing decent players then i'm not sure this is a call.

What do the pros think, totalise?

What if it was all full stacked 10/20 and they are decent players, would you call 1.8k having put $160 in the pot here?

At any level you have to call this if X will call the all in of yourself and Y, I think. The odds of hitting the nutflush alone almost justify that (I think..I suck at math but you're getting 2-1 your money on hitting the flush...3-1 shot'ish) add to that your ten and your aces..you're close enough to justifying it, no?

This doesn't make any difference what the level is, if calling is right at .25/.5 it is correct at 10/20. Its just an odds based question really and as we every decision we make in poker, it should be the correct long term. Cue zomg what if you only 1.8k to your name arguements.

As for the hand the nut flush draws 2 to 1 to be good by the river against even the nastiest of range which include sets. $30 to win $61.50 never mind that TPTK might be good or could improve by hitting an a or 10.


I respectively disagree with this these are horrid hands which you are going to require you being super good postflop to play. I suspect you are going to quote implied odds back at me, but these hands have reversed implied odds alot of time as when they make top pair they are often no good.

if they are decent players what hands might we put them on?
I'm not saying i'm right, i'm just interested in a pros view and the level of money involved is irrelevant more the standard of player at that level is my concern. What hands are you likely to be up against if you can guarantee both x and y will both be all in and they are decent players?

as for the 2nd part, yes these hands are on the outer limits of calling with atc against someone who will stack off with an overpair/tptk, but thats still the point of calling with them, although almost certainly they are just donks in this hand.

Your PF raise was 3 x BB.
This tends to entice more hands to call from SB and BB (and also makes it cheaper to repop you).

I like a slightly larger open - 3.5BB.

don't flame me  ;hide;

i'm just curious to.

i put in the worst possible hands i think i could be up against and it was a definate fold based on the win at showdown % compared with the pot equity.

really?..the worst hands you could be up against is..top set and another FD (the combination of that is the worst for you..but you're just about close enough, no?

i put in the straight flush draw and top set.

What if the 1st re raiser might fold?

yes we're in trouble based on oppos holding TT and 4S 5S but we can't make dicisions by allocating a range of 1 hand to a player. If we start doing that we're going to pass almost every hand we play unless we hold the nuts

what i said before might be fuzzy, this is basically what i want to know....

basically is a pro always lumping it in here 100% of the time?

1, if he can guarantee that 1st re raiser will call - i would assume yes?
2, if he can't know for sure if 1st re raiser will call - i'm not sure?

I don't think your getting flamed.

Ok there is 56.50 (we are 5 short of y's all in) in the pot and acid only has 29.5 back, this is assuming x doesn't call the extra. Giving as odds of 1.92 to 1 or we need 34.3% equity to justify the call. Put in ranges for both players which have us beat at this stage, I actually think these are quite artificial ranges but Im making it worst case scenario.
 
43,560  games     0.005 secs     8,712,000  games/sec

Board: Tc 6s 3s
Dead: 

   equity    win    tie          pots won    pots tied   
Hand 0:    46.377%     46.34%    00.03%             20187           15.00   { AsTs }
Hand 1:    53.623%     53.59%    00.03%             23343           15.00   { TT+, 66, 33, T6s, 63s, 5s4s, T6o, 63o }

12% overlay
Or if X does call the extra 29.5 to win 81. 2.75 to 1 or only 26.7% equity needed.



  1,448,412  games     0.172 secs     8,421,000  games/sec

Board: Tc 6s 3s
Dead: 

   equity    win    tie          pots won    pots tied   
Hand 0:    40.725%     40.70%    00.03%            589506          366.00   { AsTs }
Hand 1:    29.637%     28.67%    00.96%            415320        13950.00   { TT+, 66, 33, T6s, 63s, 5s4s, T6o, 63o }
Hand 2:    29.637%     28.67%    00.96%            415320        13950.00   { TT+, 66, 33, T6s, 63s, 5s4s, T6o, 63o }

14% overlay.

Pretty clear calls in both scenarios.

This is too tighter range to put in, I mean putting both players on exact hands is impossible. You pass a set of 6's here if you can put both opponents on this range.

We're going to have to agree to disagree

The guy who called with J3 - what does he want to hit on the flop?

J J x OR 3 3 x OR some combination of J 3 J etc...

Even if he does hit a miracle flop like that how often will he get paid off by his opponent?

The T6 is not just as bad but it's in the same ball park. But they at least have some outside chances of making a straight also.

The whole point of calling with weaker hands is the implied odds they give but I don't think either of those two hands qualify, they are just junk hands pure and simple.

There is one important question that often has a significant impact on post flop decisions: How many players at the table?

You have to give a little more respect to raises on dry flops* at full ring. (*I think we can call this a dry flop seeing as we have the FD with the Ace.)

Although having said that, I think this is a pretty straight-forward call even at FR,

Interesting post. Can I ask tournament players, if this was a deep-stack tournament, would you call an all-in for your life with this hand, draw and situation in the early stages whether it's a $50 FO or say a big tourney like the GUKPT?

Naturally this is an easy call
Also for people asking whether you call this at  10/20, well I'd imagine your more likely to call at higher limits because games are so aggressive, this hand is even bigger relatively then at 50nl

Some really great responses guys thanks.

ps it was 6 person table.

agreed..

your just big wusses

true..I'm too damn tight