Stars .25 .50 cash hand - I got abuse for, justified?

[boldie]

don't flame me 

i'm just curious to.

i put in the worst possible hands i think i could be up against and it was a definate fold based on the win at showdown % compared with the pot equity.

really?..the worst hands you could be up against is..top set and another FD (the combination of that is the worst for you..but you're just about close enough, no?

[ACE2M]

don't flame me 

i'm just curious to.

i put in the worst possible hands i think i could be up against and it was a definate fold based on the win at showdown % compared with the pot equity.

really?..the worst hands you could be up against is..top set and another FD (the combination of that is the worst for you..but you're just about close enough, no?

i put in the straight flush draw and top set.

What if the 1st re raiser might fold?

[gatso]

don't flame me 

i'm just curious to.

i put in the worst possible hands i think i could be up against and it was a definate fold based on the win at showdown % compared with the pot equity.

yes we're in trouble based on oppos holding TT and 4S 5S but we can't make dicisions by allocating a range of 1 hand to a player. If we start doing that we're going to pass almost every hand we play unless we hold the nuts

[ACE2M]

what i said before might be fuzzy, this is basically what i want to know....

basically is a pro always lumping it in here 100% of the time?

1, if he can guarantee that 1st re raiser will call - i would assume yes?
2, if he can't know for sure if 1st re raiser will call - i'm not sure?

[Longy]

don't flame me 

i'm just curious to.

i put in the worst possible hands i think i could be up against and it was a definate fold based on the win at showdown % compared with the pot equity.

I don't think your getting flamed.

Ok there is 56.50 (we are 5 short of y's all in) in the pot and acid only has 29.5 back, this is assuming x doesn't call the extra. Giving as odds of 1.92 to 1 or we need 34.3% equity to justify the call. Put in ranges for both players which have us beat at this stage, I actually think these are quite artificial ranges but Im making it worst case scenario.
 
43,560  games     0.005 secs     8,712,000  games/sec

Board:
Dead: 

   equity    win    tie          pots won    pots tied   
Hand 0:    46.377%     46.34%    00.03%             20187           15.00   { AsTs }
Hand 1:    53.623%     53.59%    00.03%             23343           15.00   { TT+, 66, 33, T6s, 63s, 5s4s, T6o, 63o }

12% overlay
Or if X does call the extra 29.5 to win 81. 2.75 to 1 or only 26.7% equity needed.



  1,448,412  games     0.172 secs     8,421,000  games/sec

Board:
Dead: 

   equity    win    tie          pots won    pots tied   
Hand 0:    40.725%     40.70%    00.03%            589506          366.00   { AsTs }
Hand 1:    29.637%     28.67%    00.96%            415320        13950.00   { TT+, 66, 33, T6s, 63s, 5s4s, T6o, 63o }
Hand 2:    29.637%     28.67%    00.96%            415320        13950.00   { TT+, 66, 33, T6s, 63s, 5s4s, T6o, 63o }

14% overlay.

Pretty clear calls in both scenarios.

[ACE2M]

don't flame me 

i'm just curious to.

i put in the worst possible hands i think i could be up against and it was a definate fold based on the win at showdown % compared with the pot equity.

I don't think your getting flamed.

it was premptive

[Longy]

don't flame me 

i'm just curious to.

i put in the worst possible hands i think i could be up against and it was a definate fold based on the win at showdown % compared with the pot equity.

really?..the worst hands you could be up against is..top set and another FD (the combination of that is the worst for you..but you're just about close enough, no?

i put in the straight flush draw and top set.

What if the 1st re raiser might fold?

This is too tighter range to put in, I mean putting both players on exact hands is impossible. You pass a set of 6's here if you can put both opponents on this range.

[johnbhoy76]

If you are calling pre-flop raises with J3 & T6 then you deserve to get pumped. So hell mend them!

Whenever I take a bad beat the first thing I ask myself is "Did I have any business being in the hand in the first place"

In the case of player X & Y the answer is "NO"

I don't think you did much wrong post flop.

They could just as easliy have hands like KT, QT, JT, T9

Also even if you are behind you have loads of outs.

I mainly play tournies so I'm looking at it from that viewpoint but I think even in cash you are good to go here more often than not

i disagree with that. they maybe knobs for giving out when they got beat but they aren't necesarily wrong to call with those hands.

We're going to have to agree to disagree

The guy who called with J3 - what does he want to hit on the flop?

J J x OR 3 3 x OR some combination of J 3 J etc...

Even if he does hit a miracle flop like that how often will he get paid off by his opponent?

The T6 is not just as bad but it's in the same ball park. But they at least have some outside chances of making a straight also.

The whole point of calling with weaker hands is the implied odds they give but I don't think either of those two hands qualify, they are just junk hands pure and simple.

[Smart Money]

There is one important question that often has a significant impact on post flop decisions: How many players at the table?

You have to give a little more respect to raises on dry flops* at full ring. (*I think we can call this a dry flop seeing as we have the FD with the Ace.)

Although having said that, I think this is a pretty straight-forward call even at FR,

[Benny Brox]

Interesting post. Can I ask tournament players, if this was a deep-stack tournament, would you call an all-in for your life with this hand, draw and situation in the early stages whether it's a $50 FO or say a big tourney like the GUKPT?

[cooker3]

Naturally this is an easy call
Also for people asking whether you call this at  10/20, well I'd imagine your more likely to call at higher limits because games are so aggressive, this hand is even bigger relatively then at 50nl

[Acidmouse]

Some really great responses guys thanks.

ps it was 6 person table.

[boldie]

If you are calling pre-flop raises with J3 & T6 then you deserve to get pumped. So hell mend them!

Whenever I take a bad beat the first thing I ask myself is "Did I have any business being in the hand in the first place"

In the case of player X & Y the answer is "NO"

I don't think you did much wrong post flop.

They could just as easliy have hands like KT, QT, JT, T9

Also even if you are behind you have loads of outs.

I mainly play tournies so I'm looking at it from that viewpoint but I think even in cash you are good to go here more often than not

i disagree with that. they maybe knobs for giving out when they got beat but they aren't necesarily wrong to call with those hands.

We're going to have to agree to disagree

The guy who called with J3 - what does he want to hit on the flop?

J J x OR 3 3 x OR some combination of J 3 J etc...

Even if he does hit a miracle flop like that how often will he get paid off by his opponent?

The T6 is not just as bad but it's in the same ball park. But they at least have some outside chances of making a straight also.

The whole point of calling with weaker hands is the implied odds they give but I don't think either of those two hands qualify, they are just junk hands pure and simple.

agreed..

[ACE2M]

If you are calling pre-flop raises with J3 & T6 then you deserve to get pumped. So hell mend them!

Whenever I take a bad beat the first thing I ask myself is "Did I have any business being in the hand in the first place"

In the case of player X & Y the answer is "NO"

I don't think you did much wrong post flop.

They could just as easliy have hands like KT, QT, JT, T9

Also even if you are behind you have loads of outs.

I mainly play tournies so I'm looking at it from that viewpoint but I think even in cash you are good to go here more often than not

i disagree with that. they maybe knobs for giving out when they got beat but they aren't necesarily wrong to call with those hands.

We're going to have to agree to disagree

The guy who called with J3 - what does he want to hit on the flop?

J J x OR 3 3 x OR some combination of J 3 J etc...

Even if he does hit a miracle flop like that how often will he get paid off by his opponent?

The T6 is not just as bad but it's in the same ball park. But they at least have some outside chances of making a straight also.

The whole point of calling with weaker hands is the implied odds they give but I don't think either of those two hands qualify, they are just junk hands pure and simple.

agreed..

your just big wusses

[boldie]

If you are calling pre-flop raises with J3 & T6 then you deserve to get pumped. So hell mend them!

Whenever I take a bad beat the first thing I ask myself is "Did I have any business being in the hand in the first place"

In the case of player X & Y the answer is "NO"

I don't think you did much wrong post flop.

They could just as easliy have hands like KT, QT, JT, T9

Also even if you are behind you have loads of outs.

I mainly play tournies so I'm looking at it from that viewpoint but I think even in cash you are good to go here more often than not

i disagree with that. they maybe knobs for giving out when they got beat but they aren't necesarily wrong to call with those hands.

We're going to have to agree to disagree

The guy who called with J3 - what does he want to hit on the flop?

J J x OR 3 3 x OR some combination of J 3 J etc...

Even if he does hit a miracle flop like that how often will he get paid off by his opponent?

The T6 is not just as bad but it's in the same ball park. But they at least have some outside chances of making a straight also.

The whole point of calling with weaker hands is the implied odds they give but I don't think either of those two hands qualify, they are just junk hands pure and simple.

agreed..

your just big wusses

true..I'm too damn tight