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to cut a long story short(ish).  Bought new lappy last January.  worked fine for a couple of months, then started freezing, crashing etc.  Called tech support who recommended resetting to factory settings.  did that, fine for a few days, then started playing up again.  Eventually, several frustrating phone calls later, they took it in for 'repair'.  came back marked 'repaired', but no info on diagnosis of problem or what had actually been done to repair it.  Same story, few days later, starts crashing again.  Several more phone calls later I ask if machine can be written off and replaced, as it's still under a year old and had nothing but grief.  Told they have to attempt to repair it at least twice before it's written off, so they arrange to take it in for repair again.  same thing, comes back 'repaired', but no details.  That was a few weeks ago, and I've just started using the thing again in the last couple of days (got used to using the old desktop instead while it was away being 'fixed'.  No surprise to find it's crashing again and nothing has changed.

Called tech support again today, explained it's now been in twice and I want it written off and replaced only to be informed that I was misadvised and they have to attempt to repair it FOUR times within a year before it's written off.  I asked if their phone calls are recorded, and apparently only a sample are for quality assurance.  Their notes do not show the advice I was given.  Although it's now over a year old I am assured it is still covered under warranty as I first reported the problem whilst it was under a year old (something I sought clariification on before it was sent back for 'repair' the second time.

The guy I spoke to today said it didn't look as if the workshop had done anything other than reset the computer when it had been 'repaired' (surprise surprise), and that i should have it sent in again and ring their customer services section to advise that nothing had been replaced on it's previous visits to the workshop.  I declined the offer and instead asked for an address to complain too.

Does anyone know what legal rights I have here.  As I see it, I purchased a product that is faulty.  All I've got for my £600 is a lot of grief, a computer that doesn't work properly and crashes at the most inopportune moments, several weeks without that machine due to it being off being 'repaired', and a hefty phone bill from all my calls to technical support.  If I could afford to just write it off myself I'd chuck it out the window and buy a new one!

 ;frustrated; ;frustrated; ;technophobe;

Is Watchdog still on the TV ?

Tell the computer people you are getting in touch with them, can have the desired effect quite often when having problems.

Just my thoughts and experience.

lol was just thinking that actually.  I might send them a copy of my complaint letter and make clear that I have done so

Having worked in laptop support (cant name names),

Generally the unrwritten rule of the manufacturers would be that a part would have to be replaced 3 times for the same fault for there to look at any other forms of compensation ie reconditioned replacement or credit note.

I would push for the customer services to obtain the engineers repair slips and ask for copies (they might not give you them) this will at least let you know what the fault is and what if anything has been done to them.

Can I ask what the actual crashing is? Does it lock up? does it blue screen does it go slow?

Tbh when you say to someone in tech support you are going to watchdog they will put you on hold and laugh as they hear it x thousand times a day it is not a threat merely another bar on a tally sheet..

Could you get something going under the sale of goods act? I would say it isn't fit for purpose.

A few friends of mine used to work in support call centre for a well known high street PC superstore... They were basically banned from being helpful and telling the customer what they were entitled too etc.

It worked for me on a few occasions, the main one saving me over 3K in mechanical repair bills on one of my Peugeots.

I never had to contact Watchdog as the threat usually worked before it was necessary.

I wish you well with your situation.

what usually happens is the screen freezes, but the mouse pointer still moves about.  That can stay like that for anything up to 10 minutes, then come back to life again.  This is usually followed by a crash to blue screen, and can happen anything up to 4-5 time a day.  Getting windows to boot up again afterwards isn't always easy either - I usually get a black screen with white text that says something along the lines of 'no bootable device found, please enter boot disk and press any key'.  Turning the computer off and on again several times usually gets windows up again.

Firstly under the Sale Of Goods Act there is no such thing as a years warranty this is an arbitary time, manufacturers tend to warranty goods for 12 months so most shops will pass the 12 months onto you. Under the Sale Of Goods Act any goods should be able to be used for the purpose which they were designed for the expected lifetime of the said goods. Try going back to a shop to complain and quote the Sale Of Goods Act and they will no doubt point in the direction of their head office. Now as far as I'm aware a laptop as with most electrical goods should have an expected lifespan of well in excess of 12 months.
I dont think that numerous phone calls to their technical support line or to their head office will come up trumps and I would personally favour either a phone call or a visit to the local Trading Standards. Hopefully you have records of dates when the laptop was reported as non-working and when it was sent back for repair which I'm sure will back up your case even more.
Good luck in your quest and expect it to take quite some time to get a replacement laptop or a full refund.

beginning to feel like a consumer rights campaigner.... :)

Sale of Goods act - goods must be of merchantable quality and fit for the purpose for which they are sold. If something you buy develops a fault in the first 6 months, the onus is on the retailer to prove that it wasnt broken when they sold it. This is virtually impossible to acheive so, bottom line is they should replace (or refund), not repair within this timeframe. If they start some bollocks about it needs to go the manufacturer, tell them your contract is with them, not the manufacturer....


I would firmly remind them that it is a criminal offence not to comply with the sale of goods act

Personally I would push for a refund, since you have no confidence in their ability any longer.

Obviously I don't know for certain but I would take an educated guess at a replacement Hard drive. Lemme know the model of your laptop and I will see if i can find a diagnostic tool online that might prove / disprove this. Then you could go back to manufacturer say ive ran x tests and the HDD is faulty, please replace it.

Could well work.

this maybe a manufacturers "unwritten rule" but frankly, its a load of bollox when confronted with the actual law.

In my 18 months with said manufacturer we never replaced without attempting 3 repairs.. mebbe due to the wording of the warranty.

Just talking from personal experience

solution - ;nemesis;

Tell them you'll send Laz round if they don't replace it.

The actualy sale of goods act lies with the Retailer not the manufacturer

Your contract is with the retailer not the manufacturer.

Write down all the chronological events prior to today (when it broke when it went back etc etc- summaries all remembered conversations (they lie they tape everything)

Plan A :
Take your faulty laptop back to the retail outlet you bought it from and tell them that it is "not fit for the purpose for which it was intended" and then ask them to give you a full refund, not a credit note not a promise to repair, a full and complete refund. If they try and fob you off with the manufacturer's warranty, tell them that the only agreement that you have is solely with the entity you bought the laptop from (ie them the retailer). If you get fobbed of by the assistant demand to see the manager, if tries to fob you off quote Plan B

Plan B
Contact local trading standards officer

Good luck and be totally and utterly stuborn with these people

If it involves downloading and running a diagnostic disk, that won't work either.  Another problem with it I forgot to mention is that it doesn't recognise the DVD drive half the time.  They asked me to run a diagnostic test on it before the first time it was sent to the workshop, but I couldn't.

If it's something I could do straight from the internet I'd be interested if you could take a look for me.  It's a Packard Bell Easynote MV46-008

Cheers

From your previous diagnosis and the above it seems 99% likely that the motherboard is faulty and a replacement motherboard would probably solve the problems. However having sent the laptop back twice I wouldnt be in a rush for another repair job I'd be demanding a full refund or a new laptop off their shelves for the same price.

You haven't dropped it have you? ;)

Unfortunately the brand of disk isnt on there (possibly because they use various disks in different batches) If it is Windows XP you could double click on my computer Right click on Local disk (c) and then click on the hardware tab and tell me what model number is listed there.

If I can get windows running on it I'll let you know!

my packard bell    vvv similar.

utter POS   unfortunately, currys been quite good      but out of warranty now so  onwards and upwards im afraid.

WDC WD800UE-22KVT0

Was it a packard eww... the new one that the guy that " missplaced " my old one has already had to have a new mother board, and is still not 100 %

Sale of Goods ...

Oh, people have already done that.

Go for a refund, from the retailer.

As has been pointed out your contract is with the retailer, I think retailers can legitimately offer a repair but if they've tried it once then it's perfectly reasonable to refuse it.

I've known lots of people in sales who have always made full use of the Sales of Goods act to get refunds when products have broken, as long as you get to complain to someone senior enough to know what it means then there should never be a problem with getting a refund or replacement.

I would insist on a refund, but settle for a replacement unless you really don't want anything more to do with them.

Claire,

Ill try and have a look at the western digital site tonight for you.

cheers

http://support.wdc.com/download/index.asp?cxml=n&pid=14&swid=3 is the download you need with the following instructions

   1.  Download the Windows Data Lifeguard Diagnostics, WinDLG.zip
   2. Extract and run the program, windlg.exe. If running Windows Vista, you will need to Right-Click on the windlg.exe file and choose to Run As Administrator.
   3. Read and accept the license agreement to continue.
   4. On the main program screen, there are two windows. In the top window, you will see the drives in your system, that are available for testing. The model number, serial number, and capacity of each drive will be displayed. In the bottom window, the partition information for the selected drive will be displayed.
   5. Highlight the drive and select the icon on the top row to test or run SMART status.
   6. The DLGDIAG - Select an Option window appears.
   7. You will see the following options:
          * QUICK TEST - performs SMART drive quick self-test to gather and verify the Data Lifeguard information contained on the drive.
          * EXTENDED TEST - performs a Full Media Scan to detect bad sectors. Test may take several hours to complete depending on the size of the drive.
          * WRITE ZEROS - writes zeros to the drive with options of Full Erase and Quick Erase. File system and data will be lost.
          * VIEW TEST RESULT - displays the latest test results.
   8. Select the test you wish to perform and click the Start button.
   9. When the test completes, you will be notified with a pass/fail message. Click the Close button.


Id run the extended test...

If it fails you need a new hard drive

If it passes like others of said with the hard drive and cd drive playing up it could well be a motherboard fault

M

Llevan, Laz & JonMW all get it spot on. It's not "fit for purpose", end of.

Accept nothing less Claire. Try one of your famous Claire rant-nags.

;D  good plan!  Hopefully they'll give me my dosh back just to shut me up!

I would! ANYTHING but a Claire nag......

you love it when I moan really :D

nsfw?

 :o 

Rumbled.

I'm seeing Paulina (tantrum) on Thursday, she is doing "The Club", so I'm looking forward to that.

Claire

Take it back to where you bought it from on a busy Saturday (important)

Ask for the manager - do not bother with anyone else.

Start by being nice and explain all the problems from day 1. Tell him not happy and want a refund/replacement.

If no joy, kick up such a fuss, shout if you have to (especially when people are looking to buy something). Dont give in until you get what you want.

Unfortunately Claire this is the world we live in, you HAVE to shout/complain loudly to get what you want.

Ive done this before many times with different value items and always suceeded.

Good Luck!!

 Had something similar with a laptop.

 Write to the MD/Chairman of the Retailer.

 List the dates/problems.

 Quote the sale of goods act.

 Give them 14 days to issue a full refund or new computer.

 Say that if they don't reply within 14 days you will issue a claim in the small claims court. (this can be done online now ...very easily and cheap)


 Within a day of receiving the court papers I had the MD's secretary on the phone.....we negotiated a settlement and a cheque arrived in the post a couple of days later.

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/shopping/consumer-rights-refunds-exchan

http://www.consumerdirect.gov.uk/after_you_buy/know-your-rights/electrical/

http://www.consumerdirect.gov.uk/after_you_buy/making-complaint/

http://www.consumerdirect.gov.uk/after_you_buy/making-complaint/how-to-complain/


You have the legal high ground, however if they dig their heels in you have to force the issue and maybe you will even have to prove it's not of merchantable quality.

Sandy

I could not disagree more, Paul.

I have always found that if I have a good case, & my points are put forward in a civil, polite & well-reasoned way, I get better results.

Imagine, for a moment, you are the Manager of the Store where Claire purchased the Lappie. The Manager/ess is not our enemy, it's just a regular person who's doing their job. To Company rules. Would you take kindly to one of your Clients getting all stroppy with you, or are you more likely to appease them if they speak to you in a civil manner? (Rhetorical, because we both know the answer).

If the disgruntled Client comes in hooting & hollering & shouting at you, do you really think they are likely to get well-received, & thus get what they want?

In "disputes", I prefer to begin by, metaphorically, facing the same way as my adversary, & putting a comforting arm round them, as it were. Some gentle Jesus cooey-wooey-ness, la de da de da, & before you know what's happened, we are still holding hands, but facing the opposite direction. My direction.

Never fails.

I have to agree with Tikay here.  As most of you know, I work for the Ombudsman's Office.  We investigate complaints about government departments and the National Health Service.  As the last rung on the ladder of the complaints procedure, I'm sure you can imagine a lot of people are at the end of their tether by the time their complaints reach us, and I deal with more than my fair share of 'difficult' people on the telephone on a daily basis.  I have to say I am much more inclined to do what I can for people with whom I can have an intelligent and civil conversation about the facts, rather than the people who just want to shout the odds. 

Correct.

And the fact is - you are right, your case is good. We have no need to argue, we have right - & the Law - on our side. Hooting & hollering can only weaken our case.

Sometimes you have to make a scene to be seen though.

Tony

I said START by being nice.

IF that gets you nowhere, THEN kick up a fuss.


This is my personal experience

Also going down the legal route for such a small value item just isnt worth it.

Kicking up a fuss will cost them ALOT more - they are in business to make money afterall.

Yes, I know Paul, ("start by being nice") but I still prefer the subtle approach. It's simple negotiation, & we rarely succeed in negotiations if we start shouting & hollering. Nobody ever gained an inch of ground by shouting at me, or you, now did they?

Softly softly catchee monkee........

No Tony they dont.

But this is a retail shop where "profits" matter.

By kicking up a fuss and putting customers off buying products "hurts" them more.

But I don't want to "hurt" them - I want to get my way. And I can do that by being cooey-wooey, & out-thinking them.

But it's each to their own. Some do the shouty thing, others do the talky thing. My best results come from talking to folks in a civil manner, & treating them as equals.

"We have a problem" - the word "we" specifically - is like smiling - it's amazingly effective, completely free, & generally gets the job done. Whereas "I have a problem", or "YOU have a problem", starts everyone off on the wrong foot, & almost invariably kills any hope of a successful - by which I mean, "I win" - negotation.

Patience, persistence, politeness. Amazingly powerful.

I tend to find that one of the above tends to lead to the other anyway  "we have a problem", "No son, YOU have a problem" (sometimes followed by a little shove etc)

Just depends on one's people skills.

My old Granny used to say "You can catch more flies with honey than you can with vinegar"

Profits don't matter to staff. Targets and commission are all that matters.

I helped the nice people and was strictly by the regulations for the loud and brash arseholes.

"receipt please" It's at the house" "bye then"

"receipt please" "it's at the house" "no bother i'll find it on the computer"

Guesss which one was the arsehole.

Sandy

eh? what? who? where? when?

???

Got it in one.

Many store managers and the assistants in the store just want an easy life.  If you have something that doesn't work, it doesn't affect them until it becomes their problem as well.  The key is often making it their problem.

Now you can do this quietly or make a song and dance about it - it's horses for courses. 

I remember another store manager telling the story of the loud complainer trying to return a faulty kettle. No receipt. They eventually got a new kettle after several visits to the store and letters to HQ. HQ gave them a £20 credit but they'd have got that with way less effort if they had been nice.

Treat people how you'd like to be treated. Being firm doesn't equate to being an arsehole.

However having said that if they are being an arse to you then treat them like they like to treat people. Then delight in telling them afterwards why.

Sandy