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so now they're thinking of dropping oral tests (snigger) from language GCSEs because they're too strassful. WTF? why even bother learning a language if you're not going to speak it?

presumably the next plan is to remove adding up from the mathematics exam because big numbers can be difficult

I remember my French GCSE from over 15 years ago.  The oral element was a joke then.  All set phrases that you could learn by rote.  No test of any understanding or proper knowledge of the language.

The sensible answer is that they are to be replaced by continuous assesment by the teacher.

But what really is the point of GCSEs, further education makes them completly redundant and your results only vaguely useful as en entry to further education.
Much better IMHO to replace them with a high school diploma at two levels, one as an entry to A-Levels and the other to NVQ's. Both Pass or Fail (re-sit till pass).

Message to every parent


All your kids are stupid ;)

and that in itself is a joke. a school's (and therefore a teacher's) performance is based on exam results, exam results are based on a teacher's assessment. somehow don't think we can expect teachers to be entirely objective here

Going back to my GCSEs over 15 years ago.  The oral element was observed and marked by the French teacher from my school.

Not saying that I agree with it, thats just what was said on TV this morning. But isnt GCSE coursework already marked by the teachers at the school?

so was mine now you mention it, although back then there was less pressure on the teachers, no published league tables etc.


no idea. if it is then I have the same problem with that

actually, I've changed my mind on my last comment, I don't have a problem with teachers marking coursework as written work can be kept and presumably a certain % of this has to be checked by 3rd parties.

Ageing well Kin...

I remeber French Oral ............soixante-neuf

lol - French Oral.  teacher said to me - if you don't know the answer to any of the questions, just say 'non'.

teacher: blah, blah, blah?

me: non

teacher: blah, blah, blah?

me: non

etc etc.

Still managed to somehow scrape a C!  They must have started the dumbing down just around then.  Think it was about 5 years ago I took my GCSE's...............

Ah..that explains the aversion you now having for saying Non..especially to Monkeys.

Strangely and somewhat unsurprisingly yet again I have a story to tell as regards the French oral exam...

So here I am sitting in  the room in which the oral exam is taking place. I am looking down on the text that I am going to have to continue with the use of 5 verbs in the past tense..........no problem on account of the fact that I only know 3.

The pupil currently having his oral is a chap called Kevin Birnbaum. Seriously clever bloke. He is sailing it until right at the end when the examiner asks to shake his hand. Now Kevin unfortunately has a handshake that gives nice Jewish boys like me (by the way there were only 3 Jewish boys in the whole school) a bad name. Particularly feeble would be a charitable way of putting it.......French examiner insists on a proper handshake......and in that one moment you know he has slipped from an A to a B.

So it comes to my turn and I continue the text up to a fashion and it all seems to be going swimmingly until we get to the bit where he starts quizzing me on pastimes.....now as a proud member of the first fifteen rugby team this is a subject I have been researching but at the last possible moment I bottle it........he as I thought asks me what position I play........
do I use the French for hooker "talonneur". I mean is that a hooker? or is it a hooker? Quick as a flash inspiration comes to me.....numero deux says I. Phew.......a bit more idle chit chat and we have come to the end......

French examiner all smiles sticks out hand and I suddenly realise here is an opportunity to raise my grade.....bang I hit him with the mother of all handshakes as he is sitting leaning back on only two legs of his chair........the momentum takes him backwards and luckily just before the point of no return I slowly pull him back up to an upright position.........

Sure enough I get a B and so does Kevin............how do you teach this stuff to a new generation I have no idea..........

What I do know is that my 12 year old son who is in year 7 gets a bucket load more homework than I did at his age......I don't buy into this dumbing down theory......I think they work harder.

What exactly was he asking so persistently...

They may do more homework, but are they actually learning anything useful? Or is it just something to do so they can get a grade and get a piece of paper at the end?

Universities and employers will tell you - kids coming out of school know less and less every year. Many university maths courses now spend much of the first year teaching stuff that used to be in A-levels.

But in GCSE's and A-levels they learn some topics which only ever used to be taught once you got to University.

There is some evidence of some dumbing down in GCSE's and A-levels but I don't think it's particularly about what gets taught, and how much of it gets taught.

The problem more seems to be with the testing side of it. Like getting rid of the Oral exam in a languages GCSE - it doesn't mean that less gets taught but it does mean that it gets easier to pass.

Similarly revision time has been greatly increased. This wouldn't be bad if they were reinforcing what had already been learned to enable a deeper understanding of the subject, but they're not, the extra time is taken on exam technique. i.e. how to pass the exam rather than understand the subject.

The education system just gets worse and worse, and now it seems we're caught in a bit of vicious circle. It's got so bad because it's been meddled with so much over the decades, but without further meddling it won't get any better. It's a shame that politics has such a bad habit of getting in the way of good education.

Similarly revision time has been greatly increased. This wouldn't be bad if they were reinforcing what had already been learned to enable a deeper understanding of the subject, but they're not, the extra time is taken on exam technique. i.e. how to pass the exam rather than understand the subject.


No different in the good grammar schools 28 years ago except that you could no work for a whole year.....cram for 2 weeks and still get a C grade O level..........and please do not tell me it was not possible.........

Rose coloured glasses........the bigger problem that I see is not in the exam process but the lack of respect generally for teachers both by pupils and more importantly parents. Until all parents realise that they have a duty to support teachers and schools as regards discipline then the slide in education and society has to continue.

:goodpost: ;iagree;

I keep on agreeing with you.  I'm getting concerned.  Soon I'll develop a liking for outrageous shoes...

well you already support an under achieving/over rated team ..and you're both Welsh :)

Talented pupils then could coast and cram and past, just as they could now. But the talented pupils now who aren't coasting and want to learn more are being denied the opportunity because they have all this extra time for revision of topics that they already understand.

The pupils just below this level are being denied the opportunity to develop a deeper understanding because the time is being used to ensure that they will just pass the exams.

The pupils who have no chance of passing aren't really losing out because they still won't pass, but they will spend their whole school life being tested and failing - so that sets up their self esteem well.

As I suggested, I don't think there is much difference in the standard being taught. But I do think the over testing going on now is starting to erode the standard - and that the potential of a lot of those currently at school won't be fully reached because of it.

It could be worse:

http://www.thediplomat.ro/reports_1207.php