blonde poker forum

I played the £100 event last night in Edinburgh and my whole objective was to try and win enough for the £500 main event at the weekend.

We get to the cash places with 13th taking £190 and winner £4800.

The question now goes round the final 2 tables, why don't we take £1000 each, I ask who gets the £500 main event seat and the reply is whoever is the chipleader........OMG it's me!!

I have 150k, nearest is 130k and most are sitting between 50-80k, shortest stack is around 30k.

I took this deal, however was lambasted (as were the other 12) by others who did not make the final 13 for doing such a deal.

Now, I entered this event solely with the objective of winning enough to enter the main event, £500 is way outside my bankroll. I now have the chance to pick up £1k and take my seat at the main event.......was I wrong?

I don't think I was, the stacks were such that I was never guaranteed to even ladder to £500, i have someone telling me I can have the seat to the main event and £1k.............sorry, in the interests of bankroll management, I'm taking this thank you very much.

P.S.

You can consider this a partial brag post.


Geo.

Well done, and good luck in the main event

Like it or not, I expect you to get ripped for the deal (poor deal for you, as I feel you could get a better deal once a few more are gone especially if you use your stack around the bubble to increase your lead) but I understand your reasons especially as you state your objective was not to win the comp first and foremost


Hard hat at the ready Geo!

You got what you wanted and you were happy with it. Makes no odds what anyone else thinks or would do.

Nice one.

Sandy

You do what suits you, well done

Thanks Tigthy,

As you say my objective was to try and raise enuff for the main event (I suspect it was the same for most of the others too) The stacks were too evenly spread IMO which adds to the difficulty of laddering. Blinds were 4k/8k with ante of 800. One hit and I could be way down.

Geo.

I would have politely told you to stick the 500£ seat up yer jaxie if I was nr2 in chips), so well done for getting that.

but a 13 way chop?..Not a chance in hell I would have agreed to that if I even had average chips. It's a 100£ tourney not a sattelite for crying out loud.

I don't think you got a good deal out of it as CL BUT you did get what you wanted out of the tourney I guess. Compared to the nr2 in chips you got a great deal though with the added seat.



best of luck in the main event mate!

Agree about the NR2 comment big guy. If they had said 1k each and play on for the seat I would probably have said no way.

Also, I said previously most there were treating it as a atellite to the main event.

Geo.

with respect though (and who am I to talk!) its the wrong mentality isn't it? Yes blinds are big, but you can use that stack to make others feel a lot more uncomfortable about their situation than you do

I agree.. WD Geo

Ban OP for making such a weak deal.

Just kidding, maybe I wouldnt have quite took that specific deal but you've essentially got a 15-1 return on your wonga and three times more than what you were aiming for. Good business deal for you at the time and the amount of times two hands in a row can balls up a chip lead makes it worth it.

Are you a local at the casino? If so then there are now 12 people that owe you a good deal if you ever find yourself in that position again.

Good work fella, did you get a trophy?

You achieved more than your initial objective and you are being lambasted by people who didn't achieve theirs. I am comfortable with that.

Again I agree Rich, but then again it doesn't always work:

E.G.

I got to the chip lead when I was on the small blind with AJ suited, folded to Scandie on the button who is  a serial raiser, he puts in standard raise. I push, BB folds and Scandie insta calls with AK and I hit my J.

Geo

thanks Laxie,

Yeah, very nice trophy and certificate, even a photo shoot (hope his camera still works)


Geo

LOL at 130K guy in second place who agreed to take same money as player who had 30K. I'd want to roll him up and take him to every final table.

If it works for you then who cares what peoples opinions are.... yours is the only one that counts.

Nice lift, mission accomplished, win the £500 outright.

Thought the same Andrew,

It was actually a nice lady from Newcastle (can't remembr her name) who I sat with at the Deepstack in Drogheda a couple of weeks back.

geo

A very very very nice lady!

Well played Geo mission accomplished. :)up

I think its a great deal mate- u basically got £1.5k- i'm guessing with 4.8k going to 1st you would need to have finished around 3rd to get what you got(by no means easy- u've taken the equivalent without the risk of; bad beat/cold decked/donkin)

not such a good deal for 2nd-but each to their own-its probably a lot of dosh for her and she's happy then well done

13 way chop doesnt surprise me, Id guess most of the players, if not all of them arent properly rolled for a £100 freezeout and that the money won is important to them, not many players will turn down £1k there.

Oh and well done Geo, what day you playing?

Tks mate,

Playing saturday. Still having a go at the £200 tonite..............you going?

geo

LOL , exactly what I was thinking.

The guy who had 30K must of been laughing as well.

What were the blinds at this stage?

I personally wouldnt of done the deal, I would of wanted ALOT more - and rightly so I feel.

Then again, it does matter what the blinds were at this stage.

Nice one Geo,  Good Luck in the main...

Yep, tonight and Saturday.  C ya there  :)

Anyhow, you dealt and got what YOU wanted, so i think it is a correct deal for you.

Well done m8 and good luck.

Me personally, I would of waited to AT LEAST final table - you would be in a much stronger position to agree to a deal.

i honestly cant belive there was a 13 way chop! ive never heard anything like it! lol@mrs 130k wtf! at the first mention of a deal with 150k id have said now way and just raised every pot.

geo if ur goal was to make the money for the main event well u got that pretty much locked up unless u totaly donk it. crazy man u lost out on a lot more £££££££s there

Just saw the blinds 4k/8k with 800 ante.

Ubber crapshoot time - I may have also been tempted by the deal as well.

Then again, with everyone so eager to deal I feel that you could of used your stack to push people around.

I dont think he lost out on alot of ££££'s with the blinds being so big.

However, I do take your point that he lost out on some ££££'s

He has received 3rd place money afterall.

with the blinds an antes that big and everyone wanting a deal ur stack should be going through the roof , more often than not when the final table starts ull have a great big pile of chips. if they want to talk about a deal when a few get knocked out at the final fair enough but to do a deal in this position when ur chipleader is madness imo

13 way choip great......   Flushy you have lost chop title

Congrats Geo.

You ended up with MORE than you hoped for, so Great result for you. IMO doesn't matter what others think

nice one geo and with at least 3rd place prize in your pocket and the blinds as high as they are this was a good deal for you.
a good deal for some of the others it may not have been

well done geo mate and good luck in the me  ;applause; ;goodluck;

good deal for you geo imo, dunno how in hell they all agreed to give you the seat. If the deal was 1k each and play for the seat, would you have taken it?

Jesus Geo..robbing the lady from Newcastle wasn't bad enough for you?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/edinburgh_and_east/7268654.stm

well done geo

and probably see you at the weekend

good deal

in fact great deal in my opinion


WP

can someone please explain how this is a good deal? ur effectivly giving the short stack an extra £800!...

Pays your money and takes your choice..........making money is always nice.
GL in the main event

I dont think it was a bad deal for George, and a great deal for the guy with 30k. The other 11 need shot


Well done anyway George

WELL DONE GEO and BEST OF LUCK this week-end!!!   ;applause; ;applause; ;applause; 

At the end of the day, you reached your goal.  Nothing wrong with being a 'glass is half full' kinda guy.  I find them much happier people over the long run.

I'd have taken this in your shoes too Geo.  Had I been the woman sitting on £130k - no way Jose!

Have to disagree mate- I understand your giving the short stack a helluva lot of extra equity but I think you need to look at it from your own perspective- your guaranteeing basically 3rd place with NO RISK whatsoever. With the blinds so high you could be out in 2 unlucky or badly played hands. your taking 1.5k risk free

ok at this stage i imagine its 7 and 6 handed, you see this situation online all the time even more so live if 2 tables are talking about a deal! and everyone is playing tight and real scared. this is the perfect time to be raising every pot, u take the blinds 5 times and ur gettin an xtra 90k! at the same time u dont have risk to much 2.5x or 3x bb , the medium stacks cant play back at you without a total monster.

at the very least you have to wait till the short stacks are out and ur at the final.

Tks Trigg, I previously posted that without the seat I don't deal here.


geo.

Hi buddy,

don't disagree with you, however it doesn't always work, I posted an example earlier in the thread. In my eyes, I got what I came for and £1k on top.

You coming through this week?

Geo

i do understand that geo just think u missed out on a few extra £s. at the end of the day you have 1k in ur pocket and a seat so not that bad.

6pm starts are no use cos of work and the £500 is a bit outa my league at the moment for 1 game.

gl in the main event

 ;)

Ok mate, hopefully see you soon.

Highlighted is the main reason for me accepting the deal TBH.

Geo

geo well done mate when you got
outdrawn a bit earlier you took it
with genuine good grace pleasure
to play with you, at the time the deal
was done it was a crapshoot one hand
and your back to being relatively short
stacked the 1100 we got was equivilent
to fourth place a really good deal for the
shorter stacks anyway well done again
see you tonight you owe me a pint

derek

here Derek try an not go out the main event on the 3rd hand this yr :)

In theory, this is a bad deal. But in practice, when you are the chip leader with a stack that has less than 20BBs it is very easy to play perfectly from here on in (putting pressure on tight players etc, etc) and fall well short of 3rd place money.

In these sort of scenarios the short term variance is huge because card distribution over the next 30 hands (an infestimal amount of hands) matters soooo much. Therefore, while accepting this deal involves sacrificing equity - it drastically reduces variance. And if you aren't properly rolled for the tournament in question (and with the greatest respect to the OP - I sense that he wasn't playing this £100 FO off a liquid br of £10k. correct me if I'm wrong on that) then I think it is silly not to reduce your variance.

Two other points that are important imo:

- Once you are knocked out of a tournament you have no right to the remaining prizepool - and those left in have the right to split it however they see fit once everyone can agree. Players who were knocked out giving stick to those who decided to deal should be told in no uncertain terms to FUCK OFF. Their opinion on the subject is absolutely 100% irrelevant;

- As mentioned above, always do the deal that is right for you personally at the time. Never be pressured into anything, and always think "can I sleep on this one?" before you do it. This deal met your objectives from the tournament and then some. So smile and be happy;

It is important to analyse these things after the fact so that you can be better prepared the next time you have to negotiate a chop - but don't feel a need to justify yourself to anyone here.

In any case, gg, wp. Best of luck with the ME seat.

Good job and everyones happy with a grand and a 10-1 return. I have played the maybury a few times and loved the place and did a similar multiway chop many years ago there so its obviously not uncommon. I was one of the shortstacks and was surpirsed when it was an equal split but I suppose with many "same village" players it makes sense. The maybury is the old one near the gyle shopping centre isnt it as it was probably 5 years ago I played up there???

Well done and gl in the main event.

Nice one Geo, can't argue with you taking a deal everyone was quite aware of how much of a crapshoot it was going to be at the end.

FT ave stack would be about 100k and min 27k a round, sod any theory someone is just going to get lucky and win imo. Good luck in the ME m8

I succumbed about midnight when the power of the  4c 7d failed me  :D

Did Alan Deuchars cash?

Also nice to meet Derek and gl tonight guys

cambo, i fully intend to particapate in the first two levels
this time

Obviously it's a bad deal and highlights why you shouldn't play outside of your BR.

30k stack is my hero.

Daisy busted out in 14th...

Nice one Geo!

Sigh tell him perhaps calling open shoves with  Jh Js may help in future....... ;frustrated;

We did take £100 off the top for the buuble so he would have got his buy-in back. Derek was one of the 13 in the chop.

Geo.

If your happy with the deal then who cares what anybody else think. You got a £500 seat to the main event and cash in your pocket, a good nights work if you ask me. Lets hope you cash at the main event too !

Thanks Lloyd, as usual I believe you have this spot on. We met briefly at Drogheda on day 2 when you were sitting next to Jen (chucking your chips all over the floor) I was in seat 1.

Appreciated

Geo

That's a good call Russ, yes same place and probably same faces..........a bit surreal in a way as we had 4 or 5 local "faces" involved in the deal and yet it was other locals who were giving grief in regards to the deal.

Geo.

A bad deal for some Flushy, but for me I believe it was a good deal. From the GCBPT website:

"There are also a number of lower buy-in events at each Festival to give less experienced players the chance to play at a live event." And I am certainly in that category.


geo

I wouldn't worry....Flushy's never happy unless he is raining on somebody's parade

1st night in Vegas last year I find myself at the final table at MGM with a third of the chips in play. People start talking about a chop before a hand is dealt. There is one player who has 1bb and starts the final table AS the bb. As CL I am prepared to deal but only for an even chop. The other players think I'm crazy and can't wait to take such a deal, even though one player starts all-in. I took sooooo much abuse.

Funny to see the other players change their tune when they realise the all-in bb is my Mrs. We split 50/50 in Vegas so the deal worked for me. Suddenly they think the good deal they got is unfair. lol.

A deal is good if YOU think it is. And you do. So good.

Like this post a lot ;iagree; :goodpost:

10 players at the FT..you have 33% of the chips (+1 BB)..should have asked for a chip count related deal only and starting from scratch...you would have had more than the 20% of the money you got now ;)

Posted by: boldie

You can't put a price on winding-up Americans though. The look on their faces when we pooled our two pay-outs, kissed, and went for steak, was worth more than the 20% alone.

Well done Geo!

OK, heres the hypothetical convo.

Me - Who paid your Entry Fee Geo?

Geo - I did

Me - Well you can do whatever deal you damn well like. It has nothing to do with anyone who's already busted.

You are happy - & so you should be, 'cos you got what you wanted - that's all that matters.

Always remember, when the moaning minnies start - you pay your own Entry Fee, not them. So do whatever you want.

I think it's a good deal Geo, 3rd place money when still 13 left. Even better deal for the 30k guy...lol

nice result geo.

as far as you are concerned, better than what you wanted to achieve at the start of the comp. right deal therefore. FOR YOU.

best of luck in the ME.

vinny

yes congrats to geo and ill say well done when i see him but this isnt a good deal! theres 5 pages in this thread and so far its only me flushy and tightend who thinks otherwise! have any of you played a comp no matter what the buy is and done a 13 way chop!??? no didnt think so! to give a guy with effectivly 2bbs 800 extra is madness! the point is youve got to be getting to the final 10 minimum with that stack an doing a deal , all the talk of having 4th locked up is shouldnt be takin into account at this stage. that stack should be used to get a much better deal i think geo has missed out on at least an extra 500 sheets. 13 way chop??? will never be done unless im the 30k guy! lol

cambo you would likely find doing a chip count based deal geo would be getting about 1400 the extra 800 your talking about would of gone to the other larger stacks so i think geo got a great deal

I must have been 15th then...i noticed the scoreboard was showing the wrong number of players once we were in the 20s but i did a head count at what i thought was 16 and 2 had gone before me...must have been 17 left at that point then, my own stupidity (a thing i have a surplus of)...was told only 10 paid though (more stupidity, should have check that maself) so wi half my stack going in on the bb next hand  and 4 to beat to get to ft, figured kt was as good as i was going to get, might have folded that round in the hope of someone else taking the drop or the remote chance of a better hand in the blinds...nah, prob not....

And i only folded jj cos i wanted keep the HUGE chunk of eck's chips that i'd just received...did i say thanks eck? ... thanks... :)  (and but for Eck's slick string bet maneouvre i wid have had more lol)

Please note, no lambasting came from this direction...i wis oot the door anyway and just read about this tonight but understand why geo took the deal, not the best of structures for that stage, really was anybody's to get lucky and win or more likely, unlucky and lose (seemed to see a lot of pushes wi rag-rag, see what yev done eck, yev started a trend :-)) but suppose the time management for the casino isn't easy there, last year they chucked us out when it was closing so it ended in a chipcount in the 200 wi 5 left, i think most people would prefer to play to a winner so it was maybe an attempt to achieve that? (naive internet player here...)
Bit surprised at 2nd agreeing to it but there ye go...
I wasn't playing it as a satellite but being so short stacked, even knowing that 2 good hands could take me to probably near enough chip lead, i would have taken a grand and been happy, 500 to the missus and buy myself into the me with the other 5 :-) i can see where cambo et al are coming from, didn't think i would ever agree to a 13 way chop but then i was very short stacked at last 2 tables :-)
if i was in geo's position, getting the seat on top would make me jump at that as well...good risk management geo...gl in me...and wp...

mantis....rofl funny....

everyone plays there own game but if ive got 13 players wanting a deal with 2 tables left and ive got 150k im raising every pot, you see this online all the time as ive said already in this thread everyone tightens up an plays scared. 90% of the time you should near enough DOUBLED  ur stack  by the time the bubble has burst just by stealing all the antes from the medium stacks. just dont understand how anyone can think this is a gd deal

because it just needs anotehr 1 or 2 players that know what to do to ruin your day

I can only talk for my own response, not the others, but my point was very clear - he paid his entry fee himself, & so if he think it's ok, it's ok!

I never addressed the question as to whether it was a good deal or a bad deal - because it's situational - & not just poker situational, but "life" situational, bankroll situational, target achieved situational, Geo is happy situational.

We all view these things differently, nobody can say he was right or wrong, only venture our opinions. I see it as Geo is happy, so it's fine.

I can recall a 20 way chop - in a £1k comp - at Brighton, & several 10 & 12 way chops at Brighton. I have known of 8 or 10 "entire Fnal Table" chops in Sheffield Napoleons (because the Blinds get daft there) - one involving Thewy & me - and countless other "entire table" Chops when blinds got out of hand. It's very situational.

I can see your point - entirely - but Geo got what he wanted, & he's happy. To some of us, it's more than just a maths thing.

Well he did ask the question......and the answer is yes you took a bad deal.

People are apparently passing JJ to open pushes!!! How can you not get all the chips in this comp on the bubble, you will be on 1/4m here by the final about 90% of the time if you are 10% of a decent player.

FYP.

---

2 things strike me with this.

Yes, mathematically in the context of this one tournament it's a bad deal.

BUT, given that it is quite possible that you are theoretically underrolled for the comp, then taking a -ev deal in order to reduce variance on what is likely to be a quite crapshooty finale is not so bad. Lloyd made pretty much the same point, probably better.

Having said that, I think with a little more hard-nosed negotiation, you could quite easily have sweetened the deal for yourself. If you said, look I have 5x the stack of the last couple of places, I'll do a deal but I can't see them getting anymore than 750 each, I'll take 1400 + the seat, second can have the xtra 100, I bet you would have got them to agree.

Also deal-making in itself is an art form and is a skill that is well worth improving as it can provide a massive edge at the end of comps. Some players have naturally strong communication skills ( eg Paul Parker) and charisma and charm can win you hundreds, or thousands of extra pounds. I've seen and heard deals that make my eyes boggle when I hear what players get away with. Flushy's pretty good at dealing, obviously lacking in the charisma charm area, he makes up for it through bloody minded resilience and players refusing to stand up and laugh at a ridiculous or unfair deal being offered to them.

It's definitely worth working on your negotiation skills.

Well done though on what was a profitable night for you and best of luck with the 500.

few deal stories I have witnessed/been involved in.

Blackpool a couple of years ago and they had reached the final table in a 2 day comp. Close of casino approaching so they started the bagging up procedure and everyone satrted discussing a deal. Calculators where got out and a chip count was done. They forgot to include ali mallu in the negotiations though who was happily off playing blackjack. When the ammounts had all been worked out and everyone was happy (bar ali who was still playing blackjack) they beckoned him over. He came over and said what am I getting then. He was told 2500 and he just said see you all tomorrow boys, turned round and left the casino.

Salford many moons ago I had a monster stack in a little rebuy affair and they wanted a deal 5 handed. I had probably 60% of the chips in play but a couple of the guys involved where clearly over keen to wrap up a nice cash. They all discussed figures for a while and I stayed quiet for once. When they finally got round to asking my oppinions I simly said I will take first and you can do what you want with the rest, no negotiations neccessary. I was by no means a lock from there but thought I would at least try it on. A bit of back and forth with me saying I wouldn't take any less than first and they agreed to chop the rest of the money up if I paid the tip to the waitresses. Best bluff I had run all night lol.

3 handed on pokerstars in the very early days of internet poker and there is one wsop seat for the winner, 9k for the man who finished 2nd and zero for the man who got 3rd. Deal negotiations started and the chip leader (who had probably 70-80% of the chips in play) came up with an interesting deal. He would take the seat and wanted them to pay him a grand extra for allowing a deal. It was a brave ask by him but the other 2 couldnt deal without his agreement so they would now be playing scared at least trying to lock up 2nd. He didn't get the deal but it was a great effort imo and by the time he got heads up he had almost every chip in play as the other 2 had almost blinded off.

Stuff what everyone else says about the deal- if you're happy thats all that matters.

was that not neil "badbeat" channing

i remember the debate on THMF

i seem to remember it being miros but I am not certain.

yeah miros seems to ring a bell too

yep was Lord Miros who recently took down the Sunday Warm Up.

Titled after that affair "The most hated man in online poker" i seem to recall.

Thanks to all that replied, both for and against.

A lot of good reasons from both camps, much appreciated. And certainly a lot of info I will take on board.

The best bit about it all is that the wife now gets her kitchen floor redone, can't get any better than keeping 'er indoors happy.

Geo

You got what you wanted, well played that man.

you pay poker wife tax too geo


higher than any rake ever,we ought to get a union,,form some sorta alliance against em


lol

Message to Matt - next time you have a big win can you please get me a roll of lino? ;D

and I thought it was Mr Gryko

you are right

got them mixed up

i have perfect memory apart from names and faces

i think i met the pair of them in the vic once together and thats more than likely why i have them mixed up

I currently pay 25% of any tournament winnings.

you mean "The Alimony Club"?

Posted by: Tikay

It is funny how even at the conclusion of poker....the payout....a debate can be had about the significance of the maths. If you judge the merits of my deal in the Vegas example, you may focus purely on the figures. But this would neglect a lot of other stuff. By taking the deal before the final started me and the Mrs. won the TIME to enjoy a great first night in Vegas together...we had a leisurely meal...a wander...and watched the Bellagio fountains in complete contentment. Nikki felt like a "winner" and was happy....even when we got back to the hotel.

Alternatively, I could play on. Nikki gets knocked out 1st hand and waits around for another 4 long hours as the final grinds on. I get bad-beated into 4th...spend the rest of the night moaning about it...all the best steak houses are closed...we argue...we sleep in seperate beds.

Time is a commodity that is difficult to put a value on, but it is still one of several factors that is over-looked in the deal debate.

I just can't believe this thread hasn't died yet...It's just a Geo brag, after all ;)

 ;envious; Nahhhhhhhhhhhh he don't sound jealous lol ;envious;

class post sir

Was there a lot going on after the £100 in Edinburgh?

lol

Mathematically, probably not the correct deal, but not catastrophic seeing that he'll be getting around 3rd prize with 13 left. Not too keen on the "If Geo's happy, then it's a good deal" philosophy. Just because he's happy doesn't make it a good deal, in my opinion. If there's a better decision to make, he could have ended the night even happier. Maybe if you've pumped your last dime into the event and are worried about the risk of going home with nothing, taking the deal is a safe option, but I'm sure if it all goes wrong and he ends up leaving with a few hundred instead, his poker career isn't going to come tumbling down.

Well done Geo & good luck in the ME  :)up

FWIW I tend to agree with Cambo but each to their own I suppose