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With 4 teams from one country in the final 8 (for the first time), does this mean that the English Premiership is the best in Europe?  Or does it mean that it has the best top 4 in Europe?  Or does it mean that they've been lucky this year?

(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc43/kinboshi/quarters-1.png)

Barca are the favourites, but they aren't in a great vein of form at the moment in La Liga.  Who is the best value, and I wonder how much the odds will change once the draw is made on Friday?

I'm sure no one wants to play the English sides or Barca (out of choice). 

I still dont think the overall quality of the 20 Premier teams matches the Spanish league, and the top 4 are about the same as the top 4 Spanish teams, and they've just had a good year...

I'd fancy all the English teams, apart from Chelsea, to beat Barca over two legs - no Messi, no on form Henry and Ronaldinho isnt playing like he was two years ago. Add to that a slow defence (like most the european sides have) and I dont think 'our' teams have anything to be affraid of.

I think in the past we've kind of assumed that the Real Madrids/Barca/AC Milans of the world are better than the English teams based on their name. Liverpool have played a real part over the last three years in showing that these teams are not untouchable and in doing so probably taken away any edge they had. I think the top 4 English teams are better than the top 4 from all the other leagues.

Realistically, you could break the English Premiership into 3 groups.  You have the same top 4, then you have maybe 5 or 6 capable of being just outside, then the rest will always be down at the foot.  I don't expect any "shock" teams to be up there for a number of years.
You could argue that its the same in Spain and Italy as you could almost predict the top 5 before a ball is even kicked, but I do think "our" top 4 is a little stronger than other countries.

I agree with most of that.

In the past I do however think Milan, Real, Barca etc were the best teams in the world. They humped Man U most of the way through the 90's. Real were amazing when they were just the football team. And Milan since 2000 have probably been the best team about. They just aren't as good any more. The last 3 years or so English teams results prove they are better. The last 3 CL finals have all had English teams in them.

I think the EPL top 4 is by far the strongest 4 in Europe. It's not even close. Where I think Spain comes good though is in it's top 10-12. Nearly all are technically good sides. After Spurs in the EPL you dont have technically gifted teams really. Fast, yes. Strong, yes. Powerful, yes. But not technically adept. The Villas, Evertons and Pompeys are very English teams. It's all blood, guts and thunder but with no real chance of winning a Uefa Cup vs superior lower league teams in Europe.

My value bet for the CL is Roma. I saw them lose to Man U narrowly at Old Trafford in the group stages and have looked great ever since. They have good strength in depth too.

Arsenal at over 5-1 must be the best value?

sure the British teams all want to draw Roma, Schalke, Fenerbache and avoid each other, Barca

 rotflmfao rotflmfao rotflmfao rotflmfao

Whats funny?!! Chelsea aren't as big a force in the CL as the other three - surely that can't be disputed?!!!

people just cant resist a dig at chelse just makes me laugh!

so why not?

Believe me I am very cautious not to make digs at other teams at the moment - my house is made of very brittle glass.

I just think that Man U and Arsenal are both better than Chelsea - far more penetrative, imaginative and confident. I also think that they have a better manager and a unity behind them. Liverpool whilst prob not as strong on paper 9and in the league) just seem to suit the format. They are strong at the back (even with the weaker individuals in the team) and have two top class players in the form of their life and gelling.

chelsea have reached 2 out the last 4 semi finals, yes i know only to lose them!
they have beaten barcelona over 2 legs in that time.

i think if grant plays the right team chelsea have a chance,definetly as good a chance as the other 3 british teams.


 just dont get this liverpool thing! they are out of both domestic cups, out the running for the league and have been for months but are supposed to have such a wonderful team! i just dont get it lol

Chelsea are also out of both domestic cups, and out the running for the league! Okay, that one is a tongue in cheek dig!

Your line about grant picking the 'right Chelsea team' confirms two points.

Firstly, I'm not convinced he can/will and therefore they stand less chance - and your use of the word if and probably having seen more of them than me suggests you think that too?
Secondly Rafa B does now pick the right team in this competition and the reason they are so far off the pace in the league is that he hasnt played his best team consistantly.

does winning one mean they are now out it?

didnt say otherwise regards domestic cups but then im not claiming we have 4 players worthy of a world X1 like some liverpool fans on here do.

the thing that puts man u and arsenal above the other 2 is simple, there managers are class! rafa and grant arent good enough when the chips are down imo

enlighten me which did they win?

its not a wonderful team but it is a team suited to Europe

solid at the back, with a class midfielder and a brilliant striker who can nickl one out of nothing

over the course of a long league season the squad isn't good enough but in a series of "cup" matches they can set up well for European opposition

Chelsea on the other hand don't seem quite sure how to play, particularly in formations up top

Liverpool have reached 2 out of the last 3 finals.
They have beaten Barcelona over two legs in that time.

People still write off Liverpool year in, year out. I dont get why. League form means nothing in Europe as Milan proved last year, Arsenal the year before that by reaching the final and Liverpool by winning it the year before that.

But to be honest I'm happy for other teams not to see us as challengers. It makes it funnier when we knock them out.

i didnt say i didnt see you as challengers my point was that rooky didnt see chelsea as such.

surely a good team can do it every game????? or do world class players only turn up for big games?

torres and gerrard do turn up

the rest of the squad doesn't/rafa leaves them out/rest of squad not good enough for the Prem

I do actually think it could be Chelsea's year for a couple of reasons.

Less pressure. Mourinho, although a great manager, made expectaion a little too high IMO. The pressure is off now and it will suit you more. (Like when you did Arsenal in the quarters a few years back)

You are still in with a shout for the league but have nothing else to go for. Your squad will be fitter at the end of the season than ever in recent years.

Your key players will be coming back to fitness at the right times.

Ballack is immense and is much more suited to European football than Lampard.

The only issue is Grant. The players dont seem as strong mentally under him.

Our problem is still going forwards. Defensively we've turned up. In midfield we've competed.

Up front, Torres aside, we arent good enough. Rafa knows it. It's why Gerrard has essentially become a second striker in recent weeks. We'll keep Crouch as an impact player - the rest should go.

Our wingers are too hit and miss, although Babel is a decent prospect. Our entire attacking personnel needs to be looked at.

i agree but feel more progress would have been made under mourinho this season.

lets hope all 4 english sides avoid each other friday and theres 2 all english semis!

would rather chelsea draw barca than any of the english sides

I didnt say you werent challangers - it is cup football after all - I said I thought you were worst placed out the english teasm to beat Barca (and perhaps dirived from subsequant posts that you were worst placed of the english teams to win it). I think Chelsea are up there with 7 other teams with a chance of winning.

can someone help me out with some odds?

I need the chances of there being two prem v prem quater finals and the chances of there being NO prem v prem quarters.

for the first one I've assumed that there is already one prem v prem draw so with the remaining 6 teams 15 possible match ups only one is prem v prem so 14/1

for the second, If there are 27 possible matches and 6 of them are prem v prem thats 21/6 = 7/2

Is that right or have I over simplified it?

the first one can't be right

no idea my brain hurts lol why the hell do you need to knw these things lol

The 'value' is obviously liverpool. Most successful team over past few years left in the comp, and 5th favs...lol
Liverpool are shite in the league but their team and players are suited to European competition.

I thought this would be easy to do inbetween taking phone calls and sorting out issues in the office - but my head now hurts as well...

I had you down as a candidate to help. I thought you were a bit of a bookmaker.

The industry I work in you can probably imagine how many hardcore gamblers around me. You have to be on your toes with the bets you make in the office. It's not the usual "I'll bet you 50p x beats y"

I'm due to collect a couple of hundred quid on finishing positions and dream team bets at the end of the season.

Well there are 28 ties which can be combined to make 105 different draws.

Of these 28 ties, 6 are all-prem, 6 are all foreign and 16 are prem v foreign.

That's as far as I've got.

id say manu or barca are a step above the rest

though it is a cup so chelski liverpool arsenal have chances

fenerbache schalke roma have no chance to win imo

looking at the first one I think you have to work out the odds on one prem v prem match from 8 teams, then the odds of the remaining 6 teams producing the only prem v prem match, then combining the two.

so that's premA have 7 possible opponents, 3 of which are prem so thats 42.9% or 3/7 or 4:3
six remaining teams 1 of 6 possible opponents are prem so that's 16.7% or 1/6 or 5:1
putting a 4/3 and a 5/1 on as a double gets 14/1
So I was right

I think

my bets would be manu to win or barca to win or if you have plenty money lay roma

Good.  ;D

I think Man U & Arsenal are the best 2 sides left in it but the fact that they will be slugging it out for the title will work against them.

Barca won't win it as they are not good enough at the back.

Roma, I've not seen enough of so can't really comment but they would be a surprise winner.

Fenner/Schalke aren't good enough.

That leaves Chelsea & Liverpool who are both capable of winning it. If pushed I'd go for the course & distance winners Liverpool but I wouldn't like to bet against Chelsea in a final played in Moscow  :)

i pray for there not to be a liverpool chelski euro tie ever again, 6 of the worst games ive ever seen

arsenal/manu/barca tie please

Don't watch Liverpool play.  We'll only disappoint you when we win.


That'll do me. 

 :goodpost: ;iagree;

no, it's wrong
in the second part the prem team has 5 possible opponents so it's a combination of 4:3 and 4:1 which is about 8.6% or just short of 12:1

i think

If you were going to bet a lot liverpool would be good e/w for me 2 finals in three rafas the man in europe (shame he cant work the prem out for u) also prob go liverpool straight out for what i just said.All four english teams have a good chance and would agree that chelski are least likely to win out of the 4 for me gl all. All eng final be good man u liverpool

Good.  ;D

Usually I would agree but ManUre's squad is big this year. The strength in depth is actually a little worrying. It's the first year since 99 I've had to sweat on who's winning it.

A god i agree..

Thought you would like it seen as you beat them. Would expect at least one all eng tie out of the 4 man u vs lpool would probly be the best tie but like a said would like that to be the final see what happens soon enough must be nice to have cl draw to think about instead of relegation lol oh for the good old days when we at least challenged at the top.

i predict

liverpool v man utd

arsenal v chelsea

roma v fenebache

schalke v barca

illl go for

Liverpool v man utd

fenebache v chelsea

roma v arsenal

schale v barca

Arsenal v Liverpool

Roma vs Man Utd

Schalke vs Barcelona

Fenerbache vs Chelsea

ouch

Semis will be Arsenal/Liverpool vs Fenerbache/Chelsea and Schalke/Barcelona vs Roma/Man Utd.

Man u are definite favs now good draw for them i new chelsea would get fenerbache how lucky r they in draws.

Home 2nd leg, gotta be happy...

Man u get barca? they cna't be faves

Arsenal are the faves....even allowing for Liverpool's great form in Europe they will be faves to win that, and versus Chelse/Fenerbache

Not a bad draw for Arsenal, would rather have played the Anfield leg first.  No more long away trips though - Liverpool and across the road to Chelsea if they make it to the semi's - which should benefit our chances of winning the Premiership. 

Very close in the betting on Betfair right now.

Barca - 4.3
Man Utd - 4.7
Chelsea - 4.8
Arsenal - 6.8
Liverpool - 8.8
Roma - 15
Other Two - Lots

Probably the least favoured draw for Liverpool, although I'm surprised that Arsenal fans are that chuffed about it.

Should be interesting.

Just seen Arsenal's fixtures around that time:

23/3 Chelski away
29/3 Bolton away
2/4 Liverpool home (CL)
5/4 Liverpool home (League)
9/4 Liverpool away (CL)
13/4 United away

That's a busy three weeks.

Liverpool's aren't any easier:

23/3 Man U away
3/30 Everton home
2/4 Arsenal away (CL)
5/4 Arsenal away (League)
9/4 Arsenal home (CL)
13/4 Blackburn home

Lets hope that this is where the system comes into play..  ;whistle;

Barca havent been playing very well this season and as they would be away for the 1st leg i would make man u fav 2 win that tie.Bookies dont often get it wrong and they've made aresenal joint 4th favs out of 8 teams.It will be a tough game for arsenal with the 2nd leg at arsenal and then they would be playing the 2nd leg of the semi away 2

LETS BE HONEST NO ARSENAL OR LIVERPOOL FAN CAN BE  REALLY HAPPY WITH THE DRAW, BOOKIES THINK ITS SO CLOSE BOTH TEAMS ARE ODDS ON TO GO THROUGH,ARSENAL 4/5 LIVERPOOL 10/11 ,BUT ALL TEAMS MUST OF BEEN HOPING FOR SCHALKE OR FERNBACHE, ALSO THE WINNER  IS PROBABLY AWAY TO CHELSEA  FOR THE SECOND LEG IN SEMIS,DRAW COULD OF BEEN KINDER BUT NO BIG DEAL,

NO NEED TO SHOUT!!

http://forums.icnorthwest.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=33755&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Either an elaborate wind up by the admin on there, or something very strange.

Here's the post on that thread (red highlighting mine):

(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc43/kinboshi/draw-leaked.png)

And now the forum has melted.

Looks like they got to them.

The scientologists?

Yes, them as well.

Can I just check my maths with someone?  I didn't see the draw, but I'm assuming it was 8 balls in a bag, and one drawn for the home side, and the next one out would be the away side to play them?

The odds against predicting which teams will meet each other is:

1/7 x 1/5 x 1/3 = 104 to 1

But if someone was to predict the home and away sides for the fixtures would it be:

1/2 x 1/7 x 1/2 x 1/5 x 1/2 x 1/3 x 1/2 = 839 to 1

Or have I ballsed that up somewhere along the line?

Pants draw. That is all.

@rse v Mickeys is a great draw for me ... couldnt be any better ... if @rse go through I get to mock Kin, Baron, Jizz etc etc ... If the Mickeys win I get to Mock the goons.


:D :D :D :D

LOL @ a Spurs fan mocking anyone in the CL

ahhhhh yes but its mocking from a fan of a club that has a trophy already this season :)

And let me have my fun or i wont let you get a draw for bubbling the blonde bash ;) :D

LOL @ yesterday's game.