blonde poker forum

Fresh from her ActionJack led MasterClass at DTD, Tracey Dell took down Luton's 94 runner £75 Freeze tonight.

She arrived 45 minutes late, was almost felted by the Break, but found the right spots to move, rode her luck, & went on to be Chip Mummy with 4 left. With Blinds prohibitive, they then did a DTD-style Chop, all taking 4th, followed by a pro-rata chip Count. Tracey netted almost £1,700 - a well handy result for her.

Ian "Expressman" Needleman took his third straight Cash since returning from his No-Plasma induced absence, too, well done him.

The Plasma is back, by the way.

Well done that girl.

A little confused as to what a "dtd style chop" is, as described it sounds like the old "grosvenor style chops" i have been involved in?

Well done Tracey. You're going to do big things with this omaha :) Go get them!!!!!!!!

well done Tracey!

dtd chops..everyone takes the money for the position next out and pro rata the rest accoring to chip couint

Well done Trace!!!  ;mexicanwave;

Confused me why it was described as dtd style when it's actually a grosvenor chop in a grosvenor cardroom ???

I'm not sure, but I think the point being made is that all dtd chops have to be worked out like that, all Grosvenor chops are not worked out to a set formula, and are down to the players to negotiate

Ahhh, i was getting mixed up with a chipcount, this was a deal along chipcount formulae instead of a "i want £2k you lot decide what to do with the rest" they kept it more civilised.
Cool

Nice one Tracy, congrats  ;applause; ;applause;



Oh and well done on hiding your tell  ;whistle;

WELL DONE CHICKA!!!   

;cheerleader; ;cheerleader; ;cheerleader; 

Absolutely delighted for you!

Ding Dong!!!!

thread title! tikay getting worse than snoops lol

Well played Trace.

Well played tracey.

Obviously you only won cos i wasn't there................

xx

WD that girl!

congrats

Nice touch Tracey.

Nice One Tracey  :)up

Congrats Tracey :)

 8) :)up

good stuff, well done.

Nice to see the Blondes doing well..........congrats and keep up the good work.

and well done to graham 'chompy' wheldon who was part of the chop as well.

So tracey..... spending  your days and  evenings sticking it up people?


Well done  x x x x x x

well done tracey

does this mean though whenever a comp is chopped in the standard chip count way (used online by stars for the last 5 or 6 years) we have to attribute it to dtd?

I am sure it was used before stars, the chip count method has been around for ages!

wp Tracey

Nice one ding..xx

its how ive always chopped comps but i was using stars to say its the standard way not the dtd way. When danny for dtd was at the grosvenor blackpool and they were in their deals arent allowed mode he used to give me the calculator and pen/paper to work out the chip counts.

DTD are the clear leader in many ways but its getting silly crediting them with everything. Next thing we are going to say a flush beats a straight- just like it does at DTD

neat lift trace......................well done

nice one mate.well played.

Blimey - thanks everyone - I was very very chuffed  ;D

Respect to Tikay - excellent railer and coach - suggested I pushed when I was down to 900 chips with anything. Found  Ad Tc, pushed, "well done" say Tikay. Mateyboy calls with   Ac Js. "Ooops" says Tikay "you didn't want that, I expect I'll get blamed for that". His expert comentary aside I hit a ten and the rest is history.

Final table - great satisfaction in knocking out chip leader who had been a bit mouthy towards me, shaking his hand as he left was reward enough  ;D

Seriously - I have been going to the DTD classes with Paul Jackson and some of it is falling into place. Definitely worth it.

lol

Congratulations Tracey,

You played awesome on Friday , taking out Mouthy with the Straight was the evening highlight, your games in great shape, I was grateful when i moved ALL IN with AK, and you called me in a Flash with KK , enabling me to double up ,when the Ace landed and be part of a very fair chop, (DTD style i'm led to believe).

To be Honest at that time of the Morning i was pleased to do any deal as i was struggling to keep going , Friday at Luton is a real Grind , but rewarding if you cash well and i was pleased to be part of the booty !!,

Only wish i was able to reproduce this in bigger Events in the Festivals , which has always been my Achilles Heel.

Well done again , Big Kiss,

 Xpressman

Nice one.
 ;applause;

Well done Tracey  ;applause; ;applause; ;applause; ;applause; ;applause;

Good job

does this mean though whenever a comp is chopped in the standard chip count way (used online by stars for the last 5 or 6 years) we have to attribute it to DT (http://www.dusktilldawnpoker.com/index.php?affiliate=blonde)D (http://www.dusktilldawnpoker.com/index.php?affiliate=blonde)?

Nope, you can call it whatever you wish. I shall call it the DT (http://www.dusktilldawnpoker.com/index.php?affiliate=blonde)D (http://www.dusktilldawnpoker.com/index.php?affiliate=blonde) Method because it is unique to DT (http://www.dusktilldawnpoker.com/index.php?affiliate=blonde)D (http://www.dusktilldawnpoker.com/index.php?affiliate=blonde) so far as I am aware.

The DT (http://www.dusktilldawnpoker.com/index.php?affiliate=blonde)D (http://www.dusktilldawnpoker.com/index.php?affiliate=blonde) Method is NOT the same as the Stars method. I have chopped or "dealt" scores of Stars Tourneys, mainly $200, $500 & $1,000 SNG's, & I had standard arrangements with other Stars regulars in these. We chopped them any way we felt so inclined to, Stars were not consulted or involved, & we used the excellent Stars Money Transfer System (so beloved by the Nipping Brigade) to facilitate this.

I am sure it was used before stars, the chip count method has been around for ages!

Not the way DT (http://www.dusktilldawnpoker.com/index.php?affiliate=blonde)D (http://www.dusktilldawnpoker.com/index.php?affiliate=blonde) do it, so far as I am aware, but I was referring to Live Poker, not Online Poker.

I call it the DT (http://www.dusktilldawnpoker.com/index.php?affiliate=blonde)D (http://www.dusktilldawnpoker.com/index.php?affiliate=blonde) Method to differentitate it from other Methods, as only DT (http://www.dusktilldawnpoker.com/index.php?affiliate=blonde)D (http://www.dusktilldawnpoker.com/index.php?affiliate=blonde) do it a particular way, & this was, for the most part, the Method Tracey used at Luton.

its how ive always chopped comps but i was using stars to say its the standard way not the DT (http://www.dusktilldawnpoker.com/index.php?affiliate=blonde)D (http://www.dusktilldawnpoker.com/index.php?affiliate=blonde) way.

The Stars way & the DT (http://www.dusktilldawnpoker.com/index.php?affiliate=blonde)D (http://www.dusktilldawnpoker.com/index.php?affiliate=blonde) way are completely different. There is NO "standard way" to chop Comps. "The DT (http://www.dusktilldawnpoker.com/index.php?affiliate=blonde)D (http://www.dusktilldawnpoker.com/index.php?affiliate=blonde) way" exactly explains the methodology.

When danny for DT (http://www.dusktilldawnpoker.com/index.php?affiliate=blonde)D (http://www.dusktilldawnpoker.com/index.php?affiliate=blonde) was at the grosvenor blackpool and they were in their deals arent allowed mode he used to give me the calculator and pen/paper to work out the chip counts.

That stystem was NOT mandatory, not imposed on the players, & differed from the DT (http://www.dusktilldawnpoker.com/index.php?affiliate=blonde)D (http://www.dusktilldawnpoker.com/index.php?affiliate=blonde) method in several crucial & key ways.

DT (http://www.dusktilldawnpoker.com/index.php?affiliate=blonde)D (http://www.dusktilldawnpoker.com/index.php?affiliate=blonde) are the clear leader in many ways but its getting silly crediting them with everything. Next thing we are going to say a flush beats a straight- just like it does at DT (http://www.dusktilldawnpoker.com/index.php?affiliate=blonde)D (http://www.dusktilldawnpoker.com/index.php?affiliate=blonde)

That analogy has no logic whatsoever. I am entitled to credit them with whatever I feel is appropriate, & you are equally entitled to discredit them if you wish. I happen to think "their" System is superb & is unique, so I labelled it thusly.

Perhaps not everyone understands their System.

All Players at DT (http://www.dusktilldawnpoker.com/index.php?affiliate=blonde)D (http://www.dusktilldawnpoker.com/index.php?affiliate=blonde) play under their Rules, Terms & Conditions. The Rule as to Deals is absolutely clear. For a Deal to be permitted at DT (http://www.dusktilldawnpoker.com/index.php?affiliate=blonde)D (http://www.dusktilldawnpoker.com/index.php?affiliate=blonde), ALL players remaining are obliged to....

a) Agree to a Deal or Chop.

b) Accept that the "pro-rata Chip-Count" Method is used. DT (http://www.dusktilldawnpoker.com/index.php?affiliate=blonde)D (http://www.dusktilldawnpoker.com/index.php?affiliate=blonde) then pay each player based on that Formula. Grosvenors, Galas, Stanleys & other Venues (certainly the first two) do NOT "sanction" Deals, assist with them, encourage or discourage them, they stand aside, have nothing to do with it, & only, ever, pay out the Advertised Prizes, & they then leave it to the players to trust each other to sort out the cash amongst themselves. (In this respect, The Luton Deal differed from the DT (http://www.dusktilldawnpoker.com/index.php?affiliate=blonde)D (http://www.dusktilldawnpoker.com/index.php?affiliate=blonde) manner, but my description was adequate for all but the most pedantic).

DT (http://www.dusktilldawnpoker.com/index.php?affiliate=blonde)D (http://www.dusktilldawnpoker.com/index.php?affiliate=blonde) are very strict about this Policy, & make it clear that if anyone is caught abusing it, they will be Barred. As a result, there has not been any of the stupid arguments by Players over Deals that we see elsewhere all the time, as many players lack negotiotion skills & interpersonal skills, & therefore their only recourse is to shout & bluster & become aggressive.

It's good that someone - DT (http://www.dusktilldawnpoker.com/index.php?affiliate=blonde)D (http://www.dusktilldawnpoker.com/index.php?affiliate=blonde) in this case - is setting an example in organising Live Poker better. I will support them in this unashamedly. I will (& have, repeatedly) give exactly the same credit to any Venue or Chain which innovates & improves for the good of Live Poker.

How odd that some should seek to deny them the credit they deserve for trying to tidy up one of poker's ugliest scenarios - Deals - & the embarrassing aggro that almost always accompanies them. I suppose it's the British disease - knock the successful.

If anyone knows any Venue that does it the DT (http://www.dusktilldawnpoker.com/index.php?affiliate=blonde)D (http://www.dusktilldawnpoker.com/index.php?affiliate=blonde) way, let me know, but for now, to me, it's "The DT (http://www.dusktilldawnpoker.com/index.php?affiliate=blonde)D (http://www.dusktilldawnpoker.com/index.php?affiliate=blonde) Way".

tony we are allowed our opinions on this and the chip count method has been the standard way of dealing as is not just the dtd method. Every week almost on stars the million goes to deal negotiations and usually they all agree to deal by chip count- this means everybody gets paid 5th (assuming 5 are chopping) and then the remainder of the money is settled pro rata on chips- these figures are worked out by the manager at the final table and they have an excel spreadsheet or similar meaning when deal talks start he just says "if you chop on chip count this is what you all get......". I cannot accept that dtd have come up with something new or innovative in this instance (they are as I have already said market leaders in so many areas and deserve full credit for those). I have chopped many comps over the last few years on a chip count basis and have usually been the one to work out the figures as most people didnt know how to do a chip count. Danny will confirm that we chopped many comps many times on a chip count basis up in blackpool when he was the boss up here- they were all done to the standard formula that has been used millions of times before DTD was even a thought in Robs mind.

I actually disagree with DTDs stance that you have to deal their way or not at all. Deal negotiations are part of poker and if a chip count deal is not suitable for me I  wont deal if I ever get in the position there. I am happy to deal or chop but in some circumstances a chip count deal is just -EV for me. Having said that its their rules so when I play there I will abide by them. To actually ban people for not wanting to deal their way is ludicrous imo but its their club and their rule so we all have to stick with them. As far as I am concerned unless they are adding money its our money we are playing for and we should be able to divide it up as we see fit, is this in any way different from the WPT or WSOP saying no deals will be allowed which annoys so many people?

oh and i wasnt knocking or criticising DTD for this I was simply saying that its not a new thing DTD have come up with, its been the common way of doing a chip count for years at many venues.

the fact i disagree with us being forced to deal in a certain manner isn't important as its just my oppinion. It wont effect how I play the game down there it will only become an issue on the odd instance that a chip count deal doesn't suit and I refuse to deal which gladly is still my right.

Of COURSE you are allowed your opinion Russ, but you have missed my point completely. (I am allowed my opinion too, btw, even if it differes from yours). You cite, yet again, the Method Stars use, but go so far as to say "they usually agree...." (the players) which is the WHOLE point - it is NOT Mandatory! The DTD system - if I may call it that - IS Mandatory. I think you have missed that key point.

Your second para is a different & unrelated subject altogether. But the whole point is quite simple - it is the Rules under which DTD operates, & that is their entitlement, to operate any Policy they so desire. By joining DTD, you agree to accept those Terms & Conditions. It's a shame you do not understand exactly WHY they introduced the "no Deals except on the pre-agreed Terms, which you have agreed to by becoming a Member". But it was done to help promote a better atmo in which to play poker, & conduct Deals, & it's been 100% successful - there has not been a single "deal/chop" argument down there after over 60 Tourneys. Some record that, & I'll wager that no other Venue can boast that.

The place is run as "Rob's Home Game", & he's entitled to install any Rule he wishes. We, as players, are entitled to stay away if we don't like it.

Please remind me where this method is MANDATORY, is the ONLY Deal format available, & where the Venue takes RESPONSIBILITY for paying out on the basis of the Chop/Deal?

It remains, at DTD, your absolute right to refuse to accept their method of Dealing, & play on. You do not have the right to vary the Terms of the Deal/Chop, though.

fair enough I will accept that the main change is they have made it madatory which is innovative. If they have had no arguments over deals since they opened then it obviously works so fair play to them. I accept their rules obviously and will abide by them even if I disagree with them. The F bomb rule at the wsop is a ridiculous but we all have to abide with it.

Tracey didn't do a DTD style chipcount then by your own analagy as it wasn't mandatory I presume at luton and they chose to settle it by chipcount (ie standard way many comps have been chopped pre DTD). That was the only point I was trying to make- a chipcount isn't DTD style unless it is mandatory which is the innovation that DTD have made. If its just a chipcount do DTD need credit for it?

It's the only way to chop for me and I haven't chopped a tournament any other way for ages now. I still haven't played at DTD, so haven't witnessed it there, but in the places I've played at in Vegas they'll work out the chop for you and pay out accordingly.
PS, well done Dingdell imo

I know one.

Tikay before DTD you used to make a point about deals, especially in some televised games where the company behind it would not allow players to deal even if they had kicked in no money. I don't have an exact quote of yours but it would go something like "It is a disgrace that players are not allowed to chop their own money if they see fit, why should a company tell them what they can and cant do with their own money?"

Has your position now changed? Or do you just give DTD a walk?

As Russ said if i ever get in a spot to deal in DTD i will obv obey the rules of the club but i really don't like that rule.

It is a very poor way to chop.  Run the numbers again with some extreme large/small chip stacks and tell me you would take the chop if you had the small stack.

I agree that the greater the discrepancy in chips the more that system favours the larger stacks, but..

It does prevent all of those shouty arguments, and the shortstack does have the option to play on.

It was chopped so that everyone got 4th place plus the balance was divided as per chip count. Originally the smallest stack (before he heard the figures) thought I would be getting twice as much as him and with the blinds etc thought he had a  good chance of getting back in the game -which he did - and wasn't keen. Once the figures were done he was getting much more than he thought and he dealt without hesitation.

I like the 'we all get a minimum of the next place to go out plus a chip count'. At 5 in the morning with my first client at 9am and then working all day until 6pm I was happy to deal and go home for a very short sleep.

All of the last 4 players were quite close in chips, one double up and the short stack would have been right up there again. It was imho a fair way of doing it when it was about to turn into a crap shoot. 

In that case, it's not a bad way to chop ;)

Simon, I took the same chop as the short stack in a much bigger tournament early in the year. Another player, who was watching, actually said I'd be nuts to take the deal, but live by the sword, die by the sword.

the latter preferably ;)

Roffle. A sword is the best implement for cutting through the field of donkeys that gathers in deepest Bedfordshire of a Friday evening imo

I should have inserted a "ceteris paribus" or something at the start...

There are lots of valid reasons to vary the deal.  Commitments the next day, holiday next week, history with others in the deal etc might influence what you will and won't take.  They have influenced me before for sure.  But in the long run, the chip leader takes that deal all day, the short stack is better off playing it out, and that's why true chip count deals are difficult to arrive at.

But we digress.

WP Tracey ;)

That was always Tk's stance and a noble one at that, obviously it is our money and we should be allowed to do as we please.
It's actually quite sad and a major step backwards but as has been said you can either not go there,  refuse a chop or do a deal in the bog.
I recall with amazing clarity some of the outraged comments when grosvenor decided we couldn't deal with our own cash!

I agree with Ariston here. All that DTD do is enforce a chip count method for any deals. There is nothing new about chip count deals - the same procedure has also been used by Grosvenor for many years when tournaments do not reach a conclusion by the time the casino closes. In many other cases, players agree deals based either roughly or sometimes exactly on chip counts before closing time arrives.  Crediting DTD with the deal that was done in Luton is wrong - as Ari said, they should only be credited if that way of dealing was enforced by the casino as the only way of doing it.

Perhaps we should start referring to DTD styles of barring people as well, i.e. "He complained about the rake being too high, so he got a DTD style barring on the grounds that he broke club rules that prevent free speech."

Just want to make it clear I was in no way starting a DTD bashing campaign here as I have only visited once and loved the place, I even stated on a thread just afterwards I think its the best venue I have been to anywhere in the world. I certainly dont want a DTD ban as it wasn't my intention to have a pop at them, I was only trying to say that credit should be given for the things they deserve credit for (too numerous to list) and not for something they didnt invent.