blonde poker forum

Surprised I haven't seen more on this...

Hand description from Cardplayer:

In the end, Hachem made a lay down that one professional claimed is "the worst fold in the history of poker."

Jordan Morgan raises to 700 and is called by three players including Joe Hachem on the button.

The flop comes A-7-4 and everyone checks. The turn is a 6 and Morgan bets 2,000. Hachem quickly raises to 7,000. Morgan takes a few moments and reraises to 12,000. Hachem puts in yet another reraise to 22,000. Then Morgan moves all in for 49,000 total, another 27,000 more to Hachem.

Hachem has roughly 27,000 in his stack, and it is unclear who has who covered.
Hachem tanks for several long minutes, thinking things over. Eventually, Hachem asks, "You got 8-5 kid?"

After another minute passes or so, Hachem mucks 5-3 for the second nut straight. The table and the crowd that has formed are stunned, and Morgan tables pocket aces.

Aye caramba!!

This hand was the talk of Vegas yesterday.

He was getting critisied all over the place.

The hand did change everytime I heard it though.

I wonder if he is still on tilt from Monte Carlo

so retarded if true.

lol live players etc.

why would he show?

Bizarre indeed. There's a thread about it at 2+2 of course but not a lot of intelligent discussion.

I've racked my brain for over the past day trying to see any sense in it and failed - even if he's scared of Morgan filling a boat on the river the pot odds still make it an easy call.

He can't have seriously thought Morgan made the move with 8-5. He hit the exact hand he was hoping for when calling in position and it's equally unlikely Morgan has put him on the straight; more likely a flopped lower set than Morgan.

Funnily enough, Joe never folded the second nuts HU at the WSOP 2005 Main Event, when he called with 7c-3s and the flop fell 6h-5d-4d.

Lucky that time he didn't think Dannerman raised pre-flop with 8-7 - which would be far more likely in the circumstances than Morgan holding 8-5, no matter how LAG Morgan may be.

Great fold.....




.....eijet.

Just what i was thinking even the nitiest nit in the world would be instacalling here how can u possibly thinking 8 5 no matter what his image is.Not good joe will be a while before he lives it down. Makes it worse that he'd put half his stack in too it just doesn't make sense.

if theres one instance you can lay it down it is here in this tournament. 85 is in his oppo's range btw.

Morgan does have a LAG reputation, but if u r going to put him on exactly 8-5os as his hand that he makes a raise OOP with then u can read minds and should win almost every tourney u play.
I know this tourney has decent structure/levels and big starting stacks but given what he committed to the pot he's going to have to get them in when likely in a race and maybe behind from here on in after this hand.
Btw, he finished the day $35,300 (starting stack $50k) and Morgan with $171,750 in 6th place overall after days 1a and 1b.
I think he was just looking for some heoric "for the ages" laydown story to give him some sort of legacy, that's why he showed, and ended up looking silly.
btw, good to see Kalmar in 18th spot with 140k...       

im not saying i would fold at all. Just that it is stupid for people to say that 85 is not in the villains range. If he is confident in his post flop play then he can happily raise 85 with deep stacks.

FYM

If he did have 8 5 wouldn't he bet the flop to represent the ace and then if called u no ur behind to ace and av outs  ?

OR is incredibly dumb for not betting flop anyways imo.

Not vs 3 players imo.

Terrible fold, lets move on!

Agreed. When I read about this a little bit of sick appeared in my mouth.

I dont think its the worst fold ever, oppo shows up with 58 here a lot

You laying it down then..? I don't think so!

I agree it's not the worst fold ever. If Hachem had 5-8 it would be worse.

John McCririck made the worst fold ever

On a board of  Aspades Kh Qd Jc Ts in a comp at the Vic he folded to a bet on the end from Moneymaker

In 2005 I recollect

beth shak did the same in a wpt recently

Posted by: TightEnd

Hmmm not sure about that. John McCririck is just a slobbish mess of a racing pundit and clearly a clueless human being. On the other hand Aussie! Aussie! Joe Hacham is the one time World Champion and a full-time professional poker player. Hacham shouldn't find any consolation in the fact that the fat bloke from C4 Racing is worse.

No, i flat the 12k raise for deception and to open my opponents range because i think if i 4 bet it screams i have a str8 and only 85 will shove on me.

WTF? lol! You been playing w too many nits.

also, he blatantly did this for publicity and i woudnt read to much into it. Also possibly so he gets more ppl trying to bluff his nut-peddling ass.......

am the only one who thinks this is a good fold? the structure of the vent allows him to get back in it and the only 3 hands he could be 5 bet shoved into with are AAA, 57 or the same 35. If the guy did have 58 then hes drawing to a miracle chop

afraid to say i would play it like flushy much slower to disguise the hand and ust call the river if it pairs. nobody apart from those at the table knows what the guys range is, he may have raised the last 34 pots for all we know.

It's a 25k event, people don't 5 bet shove without the nuts early doors!

I dont see why he isnt pushing here with AA here, doesn't need 85 at all.

And if he is a serial LAG i dont see why isnt he isnt raising pre with A7/A4 suited.

1. Hacham calls an EP raise with 3-5

2. Hacham luck-boxes the 2nd nuts on the turn

3. Hacham has most of his money in the pot

4. Hacham puts his oppo and the EP raiser on specifically 5-8 and not the much more probable AA

5. Hacham shows the laydown to everyone??

6. Hacham has the best hand.

Good play by Hacham? Yes. And Rolf Harris is a fecking painting genius.

Rolf Harris is a brilliant artist.  However, I don't think that he'd fold this hand.

If the other guy has 85, then Hachem becomes a god-like genius of poker. Remember, he was one of the 'nobodies' when he won his bracelet. Then he made two final tables at the 2006 WSOP and people thought he was an ok player who was running hot. Then he won the Five Diamonds WPT event and many people still think 'WPTs are crapshoots - anyone can win'.

Single instances of hands like this get more respect than bracelets and prize money though. Remember Hellmuth pulling off that massive bluff in HSP - got him more respect from some people than all those bracelets.

If Hachem folds the best hand then he loses a chunk of chips in a $25k event with over $10m in the bank and some people on the internet call him a donkey. Big deal.

If the other guy does have 85 then Hachem becomes a god and gets massive respect.

I suspect with all the money in the bank respect means more to Hachem than gathering some chips in a WPT event.

Yeah because 2 pair is going to 5 bet shove the turn in a super deepstack 25k event......

I would put his range as 85 or AA and i would weight it quite strongly towards the 85.

Posted by: AndrewT

Not sure how looking like a fool earns him respect.

Posted by: Royal Flush

Why would Hachem 3-bet only to fold to a 4-bet? Is Hachem's 3-bet an attempt to get worse to fold?? No! I've Got it! Hachem is 3-betting for information. That's what it is.

No more levelling on this thread please.

I thought he 4 bet, cant be bothered to read through the orig post again.

I don't know why he 4 bet, as i already stated i wouldn't 4 bet myself because it telegraph's my hand.

To be fair to McCririk it was an all in bet