blonde poker forum

I was just wondering what is a 'winning player' in peoples minds?

Is there a difference depending on whether you are recreational or professional?

Does winning mean ability to pay bills and does that mean that a winning player is different for different members of the forum - those living at home and not having as many bills to pay as those paying a mortgage?

Or do you base it entirely on percentage of winnings vs buy ins?

someone that beats the game over a significant sample size. Like 1k live tournaments, 100k cash hands, 50k sngs.
And "winning" is a variable. £1 and hour or £1k an hour, same thing.

if you extract more money from playing poker than it costs you (over a large sample size) - that would be my definition of a winning player.

But as Alex has said, the term "winning" is relative

 ;iagree;

Going by my definition, you run into this question.

Take Jamie Gold for example - if he never makes a profit from now on, but does not use up all of the money he won in WSOP - this would still make him a winning player by my definition.

But would he be a winning player really?

Great question Tracey btw

Why live? The money is all you're measuring so why would 1000 live tournaments be different 1000 online ones?

I personally only go by whether my winnings are more than my entry fees, but obviously that's strongly influenced be just being a recreational player.

That's exactly my take on it. I think winning must include consistency, we get lucky once in a while but does that make us a 'winner' in the true sense of the word?

tricky one - and I honestly wouldn't know how to answer if someone asked me if I was a winning player.  I hardly play online at all nowadays, and play live, recreationally, averaging only about one tournament a week.  I don't keep any records, but I know that I have won a hell of a lot more than I have laid out.  As this is only over around 30 games, I guess I can't say one way or the other.  What I usually say if people ask me is 'I've bought some nice stuff with my poker winnings' :)

That's a very pertinent point, and one I wouldn't have thought of, but no, in my book he would not be a winning player.

Nail on head imo.

I would argue with the sample size but im being pedantic try about 5k mtts (very few people ever reach the long term) live or online, 2.5k sngs and 100k cash hands seems about right.

Across his lifetime probably, but if you ask has he been a winning player this year then you might get a different answer.

I am a winning player, but as I only play for fun I have no other expenditure apart from Buy-ins and Rake, and I only play at small limits because it is more important to me to remain a winning player than play in ever increasing size games.

I think it is most reasonable to look at your results form the last year to see if you are (currently) a winning player.

I would say that "a winning player" is simply someone who is ahead of the game.

It makes no difference to me how long the person has been playing.

I, personally, would not limit "winning" to money. (If I did I deffo ain't a winner - lol).

Where I do win is with the people I have met along the way- Blonde Bash -- APAT live games etc etc. 

I am a recreational player and I play for fun (If I win a few bob it's a bonus).

The people I have met, without exception, will remain in my mind forever.

The live game rush - the thumping heart -- the luck - the bad beat - the wp gg nh -- I love it .....

Yep therefore I am a winning player.....

I think the answer to this question is very personal. Firstly, I would say the length of time you've been playing the game is an important factor. If you are in your first year playing poker then you are still learning the game as a complete novice. If at the end of the year you have learnt the game extensively and the experience has furnished you with lots of new skills, but you are $100 down, then I would still consider you a winning player. In real money terms you are down, but would you consider that education to be worth more to you than $100? If you do how can you consider that year to be a loosing one? A player who is -$100 after experiencing his first 1k games is not a loosing one imo. That experience is an investment, and it has worth.

If you have been playing live for 20 years and find yourself £200 down, but have enjoyed yourself immensely, made lots of new friends and you have enriched your life in some way then I wouldn't say you are a loosing player. Again, because poker has given you something of value.

If you decide to measure the success of poker players in longterm money winnings alone then you must consider the likes of Gold to be a poker winner. You can't fairly decide to measure him over a shorter period, because we all know poker is about the longterm. So if it's just money you're considering then Gold has to be a winning player. Then again, if someone shot smug Jamie in the face until he was dead, I would suggest poker has been -1 for him.

In other words, what duke said.

Okay next !

What is "a winning smile" ?

gotta have nice teeth

 like all other forms of making money...its all about return on investment....

We have a winner in one, impressive rotflmfao

Im quite anal and Vince (Celtic) h8s me 4 it...I have kept exact records from when I started about 3 years ago..every tourney s&g cash game etc....and have never lost money over the long term....As I stand im about £20k in profit but over 3 years and compared to how much ive played its not a lot

omg lol

Yes you are and also the only person to mention your profit which is sad in itself.

Anal boy.

only cos u dont know wot profit is...cockus  :D

profit = what i make from u.... my poker bitch.

sigh...unfortunatly that is right.....ur stable is strong young one...1 more bitch and u never need to leave the house again

Will we get you two a room?   rotflmfao

 Aspades


When someone says "I`m a winner at poker" I always ask "How do you know?"

If they then reply "well I won such and such in a certain game on a certain night"..etc they are probably not winners overall ..
But,, If the reply is ..I keep accurate records including dates, times, type of game, amount staked and win or loss recorded.. then they are probably long term winners...

Keeping accurate records will tell you all you need to know about winning and losing.

yes it will tell you what you need to know but surely the implication can't be that someone that doesn't keep records probably isn't winning, and someone that does is?

It's usually the case though

 it is for me!!

No not an absolute but...
losing players don`t keep records ...Logging continuous losses becomes far to painful so generally they skip the losses preferring to remember only their wins ..
Whilst a player keeping accurate records can see where the loss occurs and take steps to either improve their game or move to lower limits and/or easier games hence ...Winners keep records losers don`t ...Generally.

No not an absolute but...
losing players don`t keep records ...Logging continuous losses becomes far to painful so generally they skip the losses preferring to remember only their wins ..
Whilst a player keeping accurate records can see where the loss occurs and take steps to either improve their game or move to lower limits and/or easier games hence ...Winners keep records losers don`t ...Generally.


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You are talking about online here i take it?

I can't imagine many (if any) pro's keeping accurate records - unless they have to for tax reasons (ie USA)

I don't know many who don't

ok - i did say "I cant imagine"

I stand corrected

 Aspades

[/quote]

You are talking about online here i take it?

I can't imagine many (if any) pro's keeping accurate records - unless they have to for tax reasons (ie USA)
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Online or live.....It makes no odds.

You need to have records  as point of reference for alteration and improvement....No one can remember each and every single session, so record keeping is an essential part of being a professional poker player ( If you intend to be a long term winner)

Most Pro`s (including myself) keep records..... period.

You are talking about online here i take it?

I can't imagine many (if any) pro's keeping accurate records - unless they have to for tax reasons (ie USA)
[/quote]


Online or live.....It makes no odds.

You need to have records  as point of reference for alteration and improvement....No one can remember each and every single session, so record keeping is an essential part of being a professional poker player ( If you intend to be a long term winner)

Most Pro`s (including myself) keep records..... period.






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Are you a winning player then Pete ?

Not taking the piss, genuine question ... Do you take into account all the entry fees of the comps you are paid into by sponsors when formulating your calculations ?

 Aspades

Hi Kev,

My own records go back 21 yrs out of which..

I have won in 18 and lost in 3 ..I include all buy-ins ,travel and accommodation when applicable....and yes I include my sponsorship ( Last year my tourney winnings were around £40,000 after expenses)...my best tournament year to date.

Bear in mind that these records look pretty good (IMO) because prior to last year my main stay was cash games and my tourney expenses were kept pretty low £50-£500 max buy-ins. Winning at tournaments alone is very difficult and long "lean" patches have to be supplemented by cash game income....but we are all chasing the "Big One"... a dream win.

Cheers Pete, I agree that cash games are vital in supporting the tournament entry fees, Apart from sponsored players, I cannot see how players can sustain playing all the 1k + comps, and expenses that go with them long term .... In fact we have all seen faces come & go from these events over the years because they cant now afford to play them.

Bankroll management yet again rises to the top in the "Best poker advice in the world" list.

Pete, Do you have a gazebo?

 Aspades

Tom,

I`m so poor.....I LIVE in one!...or will do if I don`t improve my tourney play.

Just Joking...at the moment  I`m building an extension so my garden looks more like a building site...so no gazebo and of course.. a gazebo... is an essential piece of equipment for every poker pro!.. LoL

What some sort of African deer

I keep accurate records of all my online play (via Poker Tracker), but I treat my live play as more entertainment, so I look in my pocket to see if I can play a game and if I am lucky enough to win ought then it will probably get spent on something before it can be used for my next buy in.  I am quite sure that I am down on live play but it was all money well spent.

You are talking about online here i take it?

I can't imagine many (if any) pro's keeping accurate records - unless they have to for tax reasons (ie USA)
[/quote]


Online or live.....It makes no odds.

You need to have records  as point of reference for alteration and improvement....No one can remember each and every single session, so record keeping is an essential part of being a professional poker player ( If you intend to be a long term winner)

Most Pro`s (including myself) keep records.....FACT






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FYP