blonde poker forum

Hey guys, are there any people out there that specialise in networking?

Basically, my connection is really weird, it generally cuts out for a few seconds to a few minutes every now and then, usually when I'm in a big pot (Standard!)

Anyhow, it only really seems to be cutting out on the poker client I am playing on.

Is there anything anyone could advise me with? I am using a netgear router (DG834PN) and just migrated ISP's today from AOL to carphone warehouse and exactly the same thing is happening. Sigh.

I just updated my firmware version, will post to whether it has worked or not :S

Not a network specialist but are you connecting via wireless?
If so try using it connected with a lead, if this doesnt cut out you then know its a wireless problem and you can then go and buy a long lead ;)

Im sure you will get a proper technical answer soon enough from someone who knows about this stuff.

Carphone warehouse own AOL UK so there seems little point in changing ISP from the same company to the same company, whatever is/was the fault will still probably be there. When you lost your poker connection on aol did you also lose your aol internet connection?

AOL did an upgrade yesterday that apparently buggered a lot of stuff up. Phone them and expect loads of crap needing to be reset.

Which site?
What Operating System are you using?
Wired or wireless connection to your router?

There are a number of diagnostic exercises available to work out where the problem lies. A combination of ping router, ping poker server and traceroute poker server will narrow down the possibilites.

Which site? pacific
What Operating System are you using? xp pro
Wired or wireless connection to your router? wired

there's your answer.

lol, It was fine until the last week or so.

Sometimes I only disconnect from the client, whereas othertimes I disconnect from everything!

Unfortunately, Pacific/888 block certain types of traffic that helps with diagnostics but we can still do some stuff.

Click Start > Run > type "cmd" > click OK.

In the black DOS box, type "tracert 195.244.211.205". That's the IP address of their poker server. You should see something like this:


Step 14 (in my case) is when we reach their ISP - Gibraltar Telecom - and we come up against their block.

Take a note of the IP address of the last stage you reach - i.e. 212.120.233.110 in my case.

In the same DOS box type "ipconfig". Take a note of the IP address of your default gateway.

Now, while you're playing on Pacific open a DOS box in the same way and type "ping <the IP address of your default gateway> -n 3600" e.g. it'll be something like "ping 192.168.0.1 -n 3600".

In another DOS box and when you get disconnected, type "tracert <the last IP address in Gibraltar you reached previously>".

If the pings to your local gateway address stop when you get a disconnection, your problem is  between you and your router.

If the pings carry on but the tracert to Gibraltar stop short of there (e.g. "Request timed out"), then the problem is somewhere between your ISP and Gibraltar.

If the pings carry on and the tracert reaches Gib OK, then it's looking pretty good that the problem is with Pacific and/or their ISP.


HTH.

Is it just the fact that i have consumed half a bottle of rather nice cabernet sauvignon thta i can't understand this at all or is it the fact i'm a technophobe

it's cus you're human...well..almost.

We still have connection problems here, cuts off for a minute or two umpteen times during the day, whether we're playing poker or not. It's really annoying. We use wireless and are with BT, but I daren't ring their call centre in Mars or wherever it is. Any advice on how to stop the disconnections? Often resetting the router does the trick. Does this mean it's a router problem?

Snoopy, using the white BT Home Hub? IME, they're pretty poor.

FYP.

Thx Alex.

Best day of my life when that crappy little white home hub blew up..

I don't fully understand it, but some people have had problems with iPoker due to 'packet sizes' and MTU settings.  Apparently it's something to do with the ISP sending packets of data that are a different size to what the router is expecting (or the other way round).  With this problem other poker rooms will be fine, it might just be one room that there's an issue with.

Shogun advised some people about this and it sorted their problem.  Again, this was with iPoker and it might be completely irrelevant. 

Maybe someone with more knowledge on the subject might be able to turn my gobbledegook into something that makes sense.

Probably end up just being more gobbledegook, but here goes:

Maximum Transfer Unit (MTU) iis a measure of how much data a device can send or accept in one go. If every hop between my PC and iPoker has the same MTU, everything's hunkydory.

But what happens if iPoker's router has an MTU of 1500 and mine is 1400? Obviously, I can send data to them no problem. But coming the other way, they're trying to fit something that's 1500 big through a 1400 sized hole.

Luckily, the boffins came up with a solution. The routers recognise that this isn't going to fit and so break the packet up into fragments and send them one at a time. The router at the other end hangs on to the fragments until they've all arrived then passes them on.

Here's where the first "However..." comes in.

This puts extra load on the routers - they need to have memory to hold these fragments, they need CPU power to process them and it's going to slow down the flow of data i.e. increase latency i.e. if it gets bad enough, "Longines has timed out".

So the boffins had another go.

Inside that 1500 packet of data, a router can put a flag that means "don't fragment me please" - probably in one of the first packets when you first login to iPoker. Now if that packet reaches a device that can't handle 1500 in one go, it sends back a small message to iPoker that says "would love to really, but my hole just isn't big enough...". iPoker now knows something between it and you can't handle 1500 at a time so it can step down to a lower figure and try again.

Here's the biggie "However....".

This small "would love to" message is sent using ICMP, which has loads of other uses like "are you there?" messages and "what route are my packets using to get from me to you?". Certain clueless network adminstrators think blocking all ICMP is a good idea. Earlier in the thread, I showed that somehwere between Pacific/888 and Gibraltar Telecom, at least some types of ICMP is getting blocked. The chances that they are only blokcing some types of ICMP are fairly slim.

If the poker server doesn't know that somewhere between it and you there is a device that can't handle the packet size and would like to fragment, there is going to be tears....




I've always thought this smilie was an anorak..... ;marks;

Wow, even I understand that.


and the thing telling iPoker "I would love to but my hole isn't big enough" part just cracked me up.

Brilliant post.  Thanks for that. 

Is there a way round the problem then, such as manually setting the packet sizes for your hole (so to speak)?  Maybe on a trial and error basis.

Start at  this page (http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/MTU2.htm) and follow on to the "how to tweak"page.
I have only used drtcp with xp so I have no idea if it works with vista.

Oh, it's not for me - I was thinking if anyone else was having the problem if there's anything they can do.  Thanks for the link, hopefully it'll help someone.

I'm on Virgin, and despite their crap accounts department, the actual broadband connection I get is brilliant.

As Dino says, you can change the MTU on your PC - not the easiest thing to do though.

However, changing it without also changing the MTU on the next hop on the network - your ADSL or cable modem - may not deliver any benefits at all.

 ;oopsy; I'm terrible for that,it's something I would do automatically so forget to mention it,yes if the router mtu is smaller than the PC's then the packets are fragmented right from the start.

No mate, no hub. Actually, my parents use that, and these is fine.

My problem isn't ipoker related, the net disconnects whether I'm playing poker or not. Sporadic, unpredictable and highly frustrating, but I just don't know where to start. The call centre is useless, and I can barely understand what they are saying.

I found BT Broadband to be very unstable and unreliable, always disconnecting and the call center never knew what was wrong and couldn't help.

I switched to Sky Broadband which is cheaper, faster and 100x more reliable.

Sounds like we share the same problem. Did you find any solution before you switched?

Snoopy, router or modem? Wired or wireless? Could be your kit, could be the condition of the line. Can you get any stats (Attenuation, Noise Margin) from your router/modem?

Isn't it strange i swapped to SKY and have had so many more problems although there £13 pounds a month cheaper and 4 times faster, that being said though the guy who helped me in their techy dept (after about 5 alls to the people reading of the have you tried list, yes yes yes yes yes) the other day actually explained something to me which sounded very similar to Longines post and he said he would monitor the connection and make changes.
I then had a phone call telling me they had reconfigured my broadband settings and alot of the disruption has stopped.
Still occasional drop outs but nothing like before.
Whilst posting this i

Lost my connection for 30 seconds murphy's law that.

BT fixed my problems with a new line to the exchange... Not going to happen too often I'd venture!

Router (netgear I think). Wireless. BT connection.

Other info: Same happens whether mac or pc. Disconnections are sporadic and can be between several second and a few minutes, rarely longer. Resetting router is often temp solution. Line sometimes cuts out when phone line is in use. Mobile receptions are exceptionally poor in Hampstead.

How do I get the stats?

If it's a Netgear try http://192.168.0.1. Login/password is probably admin/admin.

You're looking for the downstream figures for speed, attenuation and Noise Margin.

If you can find the exact Netgear model I can probably tell you exactly where to find them.

actually could also be  admin/password (I've seen that page a million times this week as my ISP is driving me nuts and I have one of them things)

Dropping of wireless connections is a good sign the router is on its way out.

If you can get hold of another router (preferably the same model) just to see if the disconnections still occur.

Netgear support is actually pretty good aswell.

Wireless connection dropping can also be a sign that another wireless device is interfering with the signal, sometimes all it takes it changing the channel on your router.

Yes, that may help.

When I moved into my current flat there were two wireless networks in range. Now there are eight so finding a clear channel is important to keeping the signal strong.

Thx. How exactly do you do this?

To change the channel your router is using, login into it and you'll find it under wireless settings.

To find out what channels your neighbours are using, download Netstumbler or the trial version of WirelessMon. Most equipment can select a channel between 1 and 13. Most seem to use 11 as a default. The 5 other networks I can "see" from my desk use 1, 9, 11, 11 and 11. So I use 5.

If your Netgear is anything like mine, it has a "Auto 108Mbps" mode that disables the channel choice. 108 mode only works at 108Mb/s if you have a Netgear wireless card as well as a Netgear router, there's a Z in the month and you stand on one foot. 108 mode made my wireless connection flaky as hell. Choose "g & b" mode instead.

Hello. I logged into the router and found the following details:

DownStream Connection Speed = 7392 kbps
UpStream Connection Speed = 448 kbps
Downstream Attenuation = 19.0 db
Upstream Attenuation = 14.0 db
Downsteam Noise = 3.0 db
Upstream Noise = 10.0 db

Many thx for your assistance and superior wisdom.

The downstream noise is low,if it drops lower due to any electrical interference then the internet disconnects.
If you have a two piece bt master socket as below
(http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:dZ9VQsq4eNmTvM:http://www.zensupport.co.uk/KBResources/Images/Telephone_wiring/bt_test_socket_2.jpg)
unscrew the front section and plug your router into the internal socket.
If your noise margin improves that points to a problem with your internal wiring or filters.

Yep, 3dB is pretty low.. Ideally you don't want to drop much below 6dB or you start to risk disconnections. Follow Dino's advice and you are bypassing all your internal wiring. If the noise margin shoots up, you know the problem is internal.

My noise margin used to hover around 14dB until 10/11pm at night when it would drop to 3dB without fail - no internet. Mine was something external generating interference somewhere between me and the exchange. Luckily it stopped and I get 6.9dB pretty much all the time.

(IIRC, you can program Netgears with an 'ideal' dB figure - to allow techies to try and squeeze every bit of performance out of the line (lower dB=higher sync speed). Any chance someone has had a play in the past?)

If it did improve, thus pointing to a problem with internal wiring or filters, is there anything I could do short of rewiring the entire house? Could I not just plug my router into the internal socket permanently?

By the way, I don't recognise the device in the picture, so I doubt we can perform that procedure anyhow. This is our current set-up:

(http://blondepoker.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=18163&g2_serialNumber=1)

(http://blondepoker.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=18161&g2_serialNumber=1)

Just to give you another couple of details that might help: when I disconnect, I still have bars on my Mac wifi icon, thereby suggesting that it still detects that the network is there, but simply refuses to connect, loading, loading, loading before coming up with the error page. Rebooting the router seems to do the trick most of the time. Jen has the same problems on her PC, so the computer isn't the problem.

that looks like the same Netgear modem I have model is DG834G The netgear guys will probably get you to completely reset it..that's what they did with mine...it solved my problem but I just haven't got round to securing my connection yet.

I would call Netgear cust support. Those guys are pretty much on the ball.

One of the worst producers of electrical noise is powe supplies - e.g. that black thing you've got jammed right up against the router...

Try moving the router as far away as possible from other electrical devices. The Netgear DG834 also runs incredibly hot. If you've lost the white plastic feet it came with, use blutac/sellotape/anything to get it standing upright.

If you have a Windows PC that is connected via that router and is/can be left on for long periods at a time, consider installing Router Stats 3.1 on it from http://www.vwlowen.co.uk/internet/files.htm. It'll track and graph your noise margin and attenution which will help determine if the line stats fluctuate over time or whether it's jsut crap all the time.

Problem - folks have decided to switch over from aol to BT, step-dad installed the BT home hub over the weekend, which then me on a PC upstairs, and my sis on her laptop should both be able to connect to using our Netgear adapters...

So, i try and connect, enter the password he's set-up etc, the small computer icon by the clock on the taskbar says 'connected' and signal strength 'excellent', but when I double click the internet explorer icon, or firefox, or any poker icon, it instantly comes up with 'cannot connect to server'

From memory (am at work), on the properties tab, where it shows the bytes/packets sent & received it has '0' on the received column...


My knowledge of networking is very basic, any ideas?

is it working fine down the stairs? Again, I would call Netgear cust support..those guys can probably sort it out for you, sounds to me like it's connecting to the router but not beyond that..the netgear guys will talk you through your router page (mine was 192.168.0.1) and get the right stuff to connect in there.

BT home hub is the devils work......

Yes on the 'main' computer it works absolutely fine...

whilst connected to the wireless are you able to see the router? goto start then run then type in 'cmd' without the dashes hit OK

Black box pops up type in 'ipconfig /all'

Your ip address should be 192.168.x.x where x is a number e.g. 1.7

There will be another address called default gateway............................. 192.168.1.1

or similar

take these numbers which should be in the same format and type in

ping 192.168.x.x

*where x.x is the numbers under default gateway..

It should either give you a reply or say connection timed out..

Also try typing in

ping www.google.com

see if that gives you a reply or times out