blonde poker forum

His screen name on stars/ub is magic pitch. He is a French ex tennis pro who has a WPT title to his belt this much is common knowlegde.

However....
"When he is fresh, he is arguably one of the absolute best players in the world"
according to Negraneau.

I dont remember MagicPitch ever being a monster online.

Now he is playing 4k8k with the best in the world. How did this happen? Has he been staked? Is he indpendantly hugely wealthy? Has he been crushing live games?

I must say he is definately one of the classiest players to watch but when you consider the line up in the game he plays in vegas I wonder how he reached that bankroll size and that level of play. I mean Negraneau and hansen have millions from tourneys/endorsments, ivey huge tourney winnings and has been tearing up side games for 10 years and all the rest (greenstien, brunson, reese, harmon)  have spent 20 years to reach this level. How did Benyamine manage this in the space of 4 years with no "huge" (million plus) wins.?

There can be pretty much no doubt that he is the best player in Europe then with wee gus from copenhagen a close second!

Hmmm just because he is playing in the biggest game does not make him the best player in Europe. Same goes for Gus as well. Its almost common knowledge how much he has lost in the last 6 months.

Gus was a huge loser over christmas up until wsop but since then doyle has admitted that he has made it all back "and more". I will find the source for this if you want.


Do you think Benyamine is a long term donator in this game? I dont. If he is a winner then he is beating the biggest game in the world and the best line up therefore he is the best in Europe. How else do you keep score in poker? You think that there are guys who are beating 5/10 limit online that are better than players who are beating 100/200? I dont.

doesn't he own the aviaton club in paris?

Don't tell Bruno that!!

oh yeah, not him then :D

"Smart" drugs ?

I have been in conversations w/ other players who know him, they have all had very positive things to say about him, he is considered top notch w/ other top pros.

There was also a recent rumour that he was relocating to England

I'm not getting into the whole... who is the best player in Europe thing...

I have personally never spent any time on the table with him.

He hasn't made the money in a tournament in 12 months according to the Hendon Mob Database and i imagine he has played a fair few.

He may be in the top 20 players in Europe but i'm not convinced about being THE best!

lets not go down the best in europe route again


we all know i am its just i dont have enough of a bankroll to prove it

or the inclination to build a bankroll big enough to prove it

Initially my post was really just to find out how he has ended up in the biggest game in the world especially as you correctly point out he has won very little in the past year.

The last comment about him being the best and wee gus second was a little off the cuff but now that I have had time to think about it I dont see anyone being able to convince me there is a better player in Europe.

Players definately have better tournament results, maybe some players have better side game results in single poker disciplines but overall himself and gus must be considered at this time a level above the rest of the players in Europe.

Which "big game" professionals would not be considered in the top 20 in the world?  Do you not agree that the mainstay of that game; Ivey, Reese, Brunson, Forrest, Negraneau, Harman & Giang are the best players in the world? This is the context I look at him playing in that game, he is playing with the very best players and is getting results. If it was football and the "big game" was the champions league only two Europeans regularly qualify and get results. How can they not be considered the best>?>???

I understand the hype regarding the big game is sometimes over the top.....

how can you judge these people as the best?
the only way to use that game as a benchmark is to have every poker player on the planet play regularly in it!!
Then see who won the most money.
I suppose there is never going to be a way of ranking players satisfactorily.
do you go by who wins the most money?
Or who wins the most tournaments?
What if the best player in the world doesn't even play?
What if the best player in the world won't play outside his bedroom? or his local £10 rebuy?

Ahhhh, thanks ifm. :)

Dosen't this argument apply to all sports, in fact doesn't it apply to everything anyone has acheved, ever?

hehehe, yeah i suppose it does, though most sports have pretty comprehensive ways of ranking players.
Though there is the whole era thing then (was fangio better than shumacher?).
I do believe that everyone has a unique talent in something but most will never know what that is because you don't think to see how far you can flick your toenails or how quickly you can stuff pillows???
I was trying to say that to decide whether Brunson was better than Ulliot based on a game that only one of them plays in is not going to work.

Agreed

Yes you do. Thats all that counts because thats how score is kept in poker. Over a lifetime of play the professional that has made the most money can be looked upon as the best player. If you took a 25 year playing career of any profesional poker player and compared them you would get an accurate picture of who the best players have been in that period. You wont have to look further than the big game to find the the majority of the top ten.

Alex Higgins won the world snooker championship and got about £400

There are other ways to distinguish who the best was in snooker at a given time. Career earnings is not the most suitable way. World Titles, length of time at number 1 would be more suitable.
This isnt possible in poker because of the huge short term luck involved in poker.
If your argument is that when johnny moss won the wsop he got tuppence and half a crown so his earnings would be dwarfed by the winnings now the this is where you have to put the money he won in context and if anyone asked in the 70s to name the top 5 in the world, Johnny Moss would come up because he was winning the most money then.

Ok, who is the greatest writer of all time?

The bloke who writes the adverts for "Special edition plates from the Frankin Mint"

And who is the greatest fighter of all time? ALI ? Tyson? Frazer?  the list goes on and on

so what your saying is the guy that has won the most money is the best

Because poker players play for a longer period of time i.e there career spans longer it is possible to compare them with the best in the world over a longer period of time. Unlike boxers.

If mike tyson was able to compete like Doyle does then could accuratley measure him against other boxers of a different generation.

As a snooker player the time spent at number 1 in different eras CANNOT be compared. Otherwise Fred and Joe Davis are the best players ever with their seven and fifteen world titles and kabillion years spent between them at number 1!

how do you know who's won the most money?
It is illegal for americans to play poker online so i would guess none of them would even say if they won anything at all.

There is a flaw in all arguments. i.e Joe Hachem winning 7.5 million doesnt make him better than T J Cloutier.
On the subject of Johnny Moss, I had a great conversation with a guy who was TD at Binions Horseshoe for many years and knew the poker pro's of old . He said J Moss could only play N/L hold em, and was very average at all other games.
You must rate a good poker players by the level he/she is able to play ALL GAMES not just one discipline.

My initial post was hoping to find out how Benyamine had become able to sit in the big game in Vegas with the best players in the world.  No one seems to know how this occured.

The argument over wether me calling him the best in Europe because he is playing in this game has been sidetracked because it seems like posters are ignoring the fact Benyamine is sitting in a game where 1 million swings are common in sessions. Tournament poker is way below the games these guys are playing. Put in context Joe Hachems victory could also be a months winning streak in this game.

This is specualtion but if there was only tournament poker most of the table would have upwards of 10 bracelets in lots of different disciplines. Ivey and Brunson have only played about 30 tournaments this year and their results are unbelievable. Who knows what Greenstien would have won if he had been a tournament player from the start?

Im suprised at how niave some of the replys have been really I thought it was almost taken for granted that the guys playing in this game were the best in the world because they were competing with the best with the most amount of money on the line.

David B  has been playing in the large cash games for a while, maybe not the big1 but hes been about for a while.
He wasnt at WSOP  a couple of years back ,as on entering the USA, he told them he was a poker pro.
They told him that he needed a green card to play if it was his job, and refused him entry.
Thats why a lot of the pros say they are ameteurs on TV. 
hope that helps

there is always the tournament of champions, it actually started yesterday

http://www.worldseriesofpoker.com/qualifiers.asp

Phil Ivey lasted a little over 2 hours!!!!
Cloutier just over an hour!!!

I wouldn't call people's opinions of what makes a player the best in the world "naiive" - it's just their view. Personally I dont think cash games even remotely compare to tournaments as a measure of skill.

I dont play cash but that is the life blood of poker. I just dont enjoy them to much, its like WORK! It is way to hard to know who the best players are at anytime. Poker is very streaky and its real good when its good, real bad when its bad, just ask Gus H.

DC is not on the good right now(keeps cashing the bubble money / nothing), is he the best player in Europe, the standings say so? Just watch his heat from the 888.com and then tell me what you think!!!!!!!!!!!! One of the sickest beats I have evr watched in my life!!!!!!!!!!!

Rookie

[/quote]

I wouldn't call people's opinions of what makes a player the best in the world "naiive" - it's just their view. Personally I dont think cash games even remotely compare to tournaments as a measure of skill.
[/quote]

You think it takes greater skill to be succesful in tournaments? Why?

David Benyamine has been playing the 25/50 and 50/100 NL games on UB for a while now as 'MagicPitch'. Over a year since I first seen him on there and from what I gather is a big winner on there. Hope that helps Balloo.

100% correct

Again True

When going to Vegas WSOP time he jumped into the 300/600 and 400/800 game and said that when he got his bankroll up he would move to the 1k/2k game and then when he got to an even bigger bankroll he would go to the biggest game.

This he did and he then went on to win/lose/win/lose/win/lose etc etc in the 4k/8k game.

I will not disclose the exact details of how he did overall but I have no doubt whatsoever of his top class credentials as a world class poker player both in cash and tournament games.

I have sweated him a few times when he has been playing short handed in cash games against some other top class players and have personally seen him lay down huge hands that would have been impoossible for me and 99.99% of other players to do in games like stud and he's been proved right. He is light years ahead of me and most other players that I know in terms of ability and thinking about the game.

My prediction is that he is going to get even better because in recent months he has lost a lot of weight and trained for those long gruelling sessions that they tend to play in those big games in Vegas and know people who would queue up to back him if he ever needed backing.

I remember P Maxfield telling me about 2 years ago about D B. He said he was absolutely different class heads up. Total world class player.

Nice imput Harry, its good to have you regulary posting here on Blonde.Inviting us to your insights from across the pond.
Are you going to attend our xmas party?

Joe Hachem might be considered the best player in the world. He is the world champion after all and won an event that every other great player was in.

Joe Hachem is clearly not the best player in the world in most peoples book but he is the one with the title.

Simply it is impossible to quantify and decide on simply who is the best.

At the Aviation Club in Paris this year I sat down and played in a short handed game with David and a few others.

Because I was sitting in and there were only 3 of us to start with they agreed to play Limit Holdem only. which I consider to be my best game. We were playing either 200/400 or 400/800 and they wanted to have a rotation but as I knew how good David was (he's a personal friend) I felt that I was already at a big disadvantage but whilst I would not object to adding Omaha hi/lo I didn't want the other games as I would be at a very big disadvantage..

Anyway I said I would help them get started and when more joined in I would drop out and let them play their rotation game.

I was neither lucky nor unlucky but proceeded to win a nice amount in this game in the few hours that we played which was mostly 3-5 handed prior to dinner.

However despite having a winning session I was under absolutely no illusions. I left the game for dinner feeling like I was playing with my cards face up. Not only that but David was calling out my and other opponents hands and regularly exposing top pair and good solid made hands before laying them down and making a statement to the effect that he KNEW he was beat. If you know Limit Holdem you will appreciate just how hard it is to fold a good solid made hands as you invariably are getting great pot odds to make a call and particularly when playing a very aggressive short handed game. Perhaps this just goes to show that a good deal of your profits come from saving of big bets as well as winning extra big bets.

I have never felt so inferior to anyone EVER when playing against them and know full well that if I play against the likes of David Benyamine then I am going to go broke very quickly.

I think we have an answer, Thanks Harry

Thanks Harry for such a detailed response. This makes sense as I have heard through the poker grapevine that he has almost a perfect personality for poker; disciplined, competitive and totally unflappable. I hoped he had played his way into the big game and you confirmed it.

On a side note Harry this discussion went the way of "how can he be consideed the greatest etc" I wondered how highly you personally rank his rise through the limits into the big game and wether this makes him a candidate to be considered best in Europe?

thanks again


The Bear