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Title: one hour in pass or fold Post by: h on July 17, 2008, 10:31:11 PM Game #6161220503: LUCKY £7K THU (ID7655900) £30+£3 - Hold'em NL (50/100) - 2008/07/17 - 22:07:35 (UK) Table "7655900 - 7" Seat 7 is the button. Seat 1: S230204 (4512 in chips) Seat 3: F1shb0wl (1700 in chips) Seat 4: Stu240615 (2075 in chips) Seat 5: Anto07081 (2100 in chips) Seat 6: Hugh (4038 in chips) Seat 7: Seatopen (5320 in chips) Seat 8: Nielander (2225 in chips) Seat 9: Eck68 (3520 in chips) Seat 10: Solicitor (4575 in chips) Nielander: posts small blind 50 Eck68: posts big blind 100 ----- HOLE CARDS ----- dealt to Hugh [Qd Qs] Solicitor: folds S230204: folds F1shb0wl: folds Stu240615: folds Anto07081: folds Hugh: raises to 600 Seatopen: raises to 5320 and is all-in comments please Hugh Title: Re: one hour in pass or fold Post by: Horneris on July 17, 2008, 10:32:50 PM My Initial reaction was:
The Guy in seat 9 is a Tool. Title: Re: one hour in pass or fold Post by: ChipRich on July 17, 2008, 10:33:51 PM Comments?
Fistpump smash it in call imo Title: Re: one hour in pass or fold Post by: Sunday8pm on July 17, 2008, 10:33:54 PM I call fast. Just not enough chance of AA or KK to even remotely scare me into folding.
Title: Re: one hour in pass or fold Post by: celtic on July 17, 2008, 10:34:07 PM My Initial reaction was: The Guy in seat 9 is a Tool. rotflmfao Title: Re: one hour in pass or fold Post by: TightEnd on July 17, 2008, 10:35:05 PM so how has the pusher played so far? any patterns/reads?
my default is to call and go for a big stack here in the absence of any clues Title: Re: one hour in pass or fold Post by: Horneris on July 17, 2008, 10:36:10 PM My 2nd reaction was:
Raise to 275 or 300 pre. 600 is madness. Title: Re: one hour in pass or fold Post by: Rookie (Rodney) on July 17, 2008, 10:37:50 PM Out of the options you have given, pass or fold, i probably pass... but folding isn't bad either.
Title: Re: one hour in pass or fold Post by: ChipRich on July 17, 2008, 10:38:56 PM My 2nd reaction was: Raise to 275 or 300 pre. 600 is madness. lol didnt see that orignally. Just assumed blinds were 100/200 or summat. Lol, snap fast, but make it less pre still. Title: Re: one hour in pass or fold Post by: celtic on July 17, 2008, 10:39:18 PM raise to 400 for me.
need more info on oppo. Title: Re: one hour in pass or fold Post by: Horneris on July 17, 2008, 10:39:50 PM omg just realised the tite jus says "Pass or Fold" aswell.
This thread is the most obv Level ever. Title: Re: one hour in pass or fold Post by: h on July 17, 2008, 10:40:14 PM hes not long joined this table
is a regular mtt player previous play in other mtt aggressive Title: Re: one hour in pass or fold Post by: Colchester Kev on July 17, 2008, 10:41:40 PM he has AK ...
Call and close eyes imo. Title: Re: one hour in pass or fold Post by: h on July 17, 2008, 10:41:55 PM oops ok all in or fold
Title: Re: one hour in pass or fold Post by: celtic on July 17, 2008, 10:42:02 PM hes not long joined this table is a regular mtt player previous play in other mtt aggressive in that case, in reply to title of post. Neither. I call!!!! Title: Re: one hour in pass or fold Post by: the sicilian on July 17, 2008, 10:48:53 PM call and give him overbet of the night award......oh and tell him u can play after the flop..its allowed
Title: Re: one hour in pass or fold Post by: mondatoo on July 17, 2008, 10:55:40 PM LMAO This has gotta be a Level
Title: Re: one hour in pass or fold Post by: h on July 17, 2008, 11:07:14 PM Game #6161220503: LUCKY £7K THU (ID7655900) £30+£3 - Hold'em NL (50/100) - 2008/07/17 - 22:07:35 (UK)
Table "7655900 - 7" Seat 7 is the button. Seat 1: S230204 (4512 in chips) Seat 3: F1shb0wl (1700 in chips) Seat 4: Stu240615 (2075 in chips) Seat 5: Anto07081 (2100 in chips) Seat 6: Hugh (4038 in chips) Seat 7: Seatopen (5320 in chips) Seat 8: Nielander (2225 in chips) Seat 9: Eck68 (3520 in chips) Seat 10: Solicitor (4575 in chips) Nielander: posts small blind 50 Eck68: posts big blind 100 ----- HOLE CARDS ----- dealt to Hugh [Qd Qs] Solicitor: folds S230204: folds F1shb0wl: folds Stu240615: folds Anto07081: folds Hugh: raises to 600 Seatopen: raises to 5320 and is all-in Nielander: folds Eck68: folds Hugh: is all-in 3438 Returned uncalled bets 1,282 to Seatopen ----- FLOP ----- [Ah 4d 8c] ----- TURN ----- [Ah 4d 8c][8h] ----- RIVER ----- [Ah 4d 8c 8h][4c] ----- SHOW DOWN ----- Seatopen: shows [Ks As] (Two Pairs, Aces and Eights, King high) Hugh: shows [Qd Qs] (Two Pairs, Queens and Eights, Ace high) Seatopen collected 8226 from Main pot ----- SUMMARY ----- Total pot 8226 Main pot 8226 Rake 0 Board [Ah 4d 8c 8h 4c] Seat 1: S230204 folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 3: F1shb0wl folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 4: Stu240615 folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 5: Anto07081 folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 6: Hugh showed [Qd Qs] and lost with Two Pairs, Queens and Eights, Ace high Seat 7: Seatopen (button) showed [Ks As] and won (8226) with Two Pairs, Aces and Eights, King high Seat 8: Nielander (small blind) folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 9: Eck68 (big blind) folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 10: Solicitor folded before Flop (didn't bet) KEV has it spot on yes did snap call did not have him on AA kk had him on ak aq aj interested in raise size pre flop comments am always scared in these to get many callers its a £30 tourney but lots of sats to it and even £0.33 lotterys standard of play is varied i am raising to 600 as i think if i make 300 i will get called in 2 or 3 spots with any pp any ace and will see my self c betting flop having allowed trips to hit further comments on pre flop raise size appreciatted how do others play this ? Hugh Title: Re: one hour in pass or fold Post by: Horneris on July 17, 2008, 11:14:52 PM Seat 9: Eck68 (big blind) folded before Flop (didn't bet) fkin nit. Title: Re: one hour in pass or fold Post by: the sicilian on July 17, 2008, 11:16:46 PM Game #6161220503: LUCKY £7K THU (ID7655900) £30+£3 - Hold'em NL (50/100) - 2008/07/17 - 22:07:35 (UK) Table "7655900 - 7" Seat 7 is the button. Seat 1: S230204 (4512 in chips) Seat 3: F1shb0wl (1700 in chips) Seat 4: Stu240615 (2075 in chips) Seat 5: Anto07081 (2100 in chips) Seat 6: Hugh (4038 in chips) Seat 7: Seatopen (5320 in chips) Seat 8: Nielander (2225 in chips) Seat 9: Eck68 (3520 in chips) Seat 10: Solicitor (4575 in chips) Nielander: posts small blind 50 Eck68: posts big blind 100 ----- HOLE CARDS ----- dealt to Hugh [Qd Qs] Solicitor: folds S230204: folds F1shb0wl: folds Stu240615: folds Anto07081: folds Hugh: raises to 600 Seatopen: raises to 5320 and is all-in Nielander: folds Eck68: folds Hugh: is all-in 3438 Returned uncalled bets 1,282 to Seatopen ----- FLOP ----- [Ah 4d 8c] ----- TURN ----- [Ah 4d 8c][8h] ----- RIVER ----- [Ah 4d 8c 8h][4c] ----- SHOW DOWN ----- Seatopen: shows [Ks As] (Two Pairs, Aces and Eights, King high) Hugh: shows [Qd Qs] (Two Pairs, Queens and Eights, Ace high) Seatopen collected 8226 from Main pot ----- SUMMARY ----- Total pot 8226 Main pot 8226 Rake 0 Board [Ah 4d 8c 8h 4c] Seat 1: S230204 folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 3: F1shb0wl folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 4: Stu240615 folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 5: Anto07081 folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 6: Hugh showed [Qd Qs] and lost with Two Pairs, Queens and Eights, Ace high Seat 7: Seatopen (button) showed [Ks As] and won (8226) with Two Pairs, Aces and Eights, King high Seat 8: Nielander (small blind) folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 9: Eck68 (big blind) folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 10: Solicitor folded before Flop (didn't bet) KEV has it spot on yes did snap call did not have him on AA kk had him on ak aq aj interested in raise size pre flop comments am always scared in these to get many callers its a £30 tourney but lots of sats to it and even £0.33 lotterys standard of play is varied i am raising to 600 as i think if i make 300 i will get called in 2 or 3 spots with any pp any ace and will see my self c betting flop having allowed trips to hit further comments on pre flop raise size appreciatted how do others play this ? Hugh 600 is heavy live but on the internet i agree with u..u will get multi callers if u make it less..trouble is ur assuming ur playing people who can play poker..they cant play once a flop comes down so they just shove the lot in and take a race...might as well not bother flip a coin and save 5 hours of ur life...standard internet play his allin..had someone do exactly the same to me in sunday million..900 hundred in middle guy in front of me moves in for 24k..!! Me QQ also... i called too..exactly same loss to AK... Title: Re: one hour in pass or fold Post by: Sunday8pm on July 17, 2008, 11:17:33 PM i am raising to 600 as i think if i make 300 i will get called in 2 or 3 spots with any pp any ace and will see my self c betting flop having allowed trips to hit
So you are saying you only want to win the blinds with QQ? And you also must question yourself that would you have posted this thread if the flop had been Qh Qc 5s Title: Re: one hour in pass or fold Post by: celtic on July 17, 2008, 11:18:48 PM dont be scared, u can always fold on a dangerous flop etc..... who knows, u may even like the flop!!!!! 400 is the max raise pre imo.
Title: Re: one hour in pass or fold Post by: TightEnd on July 17, 2008, 11:23:13 PM i make it 350 and go from there....
600 though does look like 66-99 so you may have induced JJ to shove.......... Title: Re: one hour in pass or fold Post by: Longy on July 17, 2008, 11:26:54 PM Snap call the all in, his range is at least aq+ 99+ in this spot.
As for preflop raise sizing which is alot more interesting conversation. I make it 300 but would be happy with anything between 250 and 350. Overbetting preflop is a bit nonsensical. Your arguement is that these donkeys will call with anything(yet 6 of them have already passed !!!!) well let them to a degree, we have a premium hand and want some value from it. If they are donkeys they will be worse than you post flop as well and you will get there stacks when they hit top or possibly worse. Also we should be stealing alot from late position and by making it less we can make stealing a better risk reward proposition. As for this zomg internet players, they are so bad compared to live players. Please can we stop it with the levelling, you only have to look at Lucky scrotes well, where he compares the $100 rebuy to EPTs. Villian played this hand alot better than OP. Title: Re: one hour in pass or fold Post by: Horneris on July 17, 2008, 11:27:29 PM I am awaiting the arrival of Flushy on this thread with excitement.
Esp for the reasoning for 600 raise analysis he will no doubt provide. Title: Re: one hour in pass or fold Post by: the sicilian on July 17, 2008, 11:29:04 PM Snap call the all in, his range is at least aq+ 99+ in this spot. As for preflop raise sizing which is alot more interesting conversation. I make it 300 but would be happy with anything between 250 and 350. Overbetting preflop is a bit nonsensical. Your arguement is that these donkeys will call with anything(yet 6 of them have already passed !!!!) well let them to a degree, we have a premium hand and want some value from it. If they are donkeys they will be worse than you post flop as well and you will get there stacks when they hit top or possibly worse. Also we should be stealing alot from late position and by making it less we can make stealing a better risk reward proposition. As for this zomg internet players, they are so bad compared to live players. Please can we stop it with the levelling, you only have to look at Lucky scrotes well, where he compares the $100 rebuy to EPTs. Villian played this hand alot better than OP. u think 5+ k into 800 is a good move ? Title: Re: one hour in pass or fold Post by: Longy on July 17, 2008, 11:31:58 PM Snap call the all in, his range is at least aq+ 99+ in this spot. As for preflop raise sizing which is alot more interesting conversation. I make it 300 but would be happy with anything between 250 and 350. Overbetting preflop is a bit nonsensical. Your arguement is that these donkeys will call with anything(yet 6 of them have already passed !!!!) well let them to a degree, we have a premium hand and want some value from it. If they are donkeys they will be worse than you post flop as well and you will get there stacks when they hit top or possibly worse. Also we should be stealing alot from late position and by making it less we can make stealing a better risk reward proposition. As for this zomg internet players, they are so bad compared to live players. Please can we stop it with the levelling, you only have to look at Lucky scrotes well, where he compares the $100 rebuy to EPTs. Villian played this hand alot better than OP. u think 5+ k into 800 is a good move ? Yes, completely standard. Any other raise commits around a 1/3 of our chip, meaning we should be never folding post flop. This way we get to see 5 cards, increase our fold equity etc. Title: Re: one hour in pass or fold Post by: Colchester Kev on July 17, 2008, 11:34:07 PM he has AK ... Call and close eyes imo. what do I win ?? Title: Re: one hour in pass or fold Post by: h on July 17, 2008, 11:36:27 PM i could promise u a tee shirt
Title: Re: one hour in pass or fold Post by: celtic on July 17, 2008, 11:38:56 PM Title: Re: one hour in pass or fold Post by: the sicilian on July 17, 2008, 11:39:39 PM he has AK ... Call and close eyes imo. what do I win ?? Nothing u lost the hand ;D Title: Re: one hour in pass or fold Post by: the sicilian on July 17, 2008, 11:44:17 PM Snap call the all in, his range is at least aq+ 99+ in this spot. As for preflop raise sizing which is alot more interesting conversation. I make it 300 but would be happy with anything between 250 and 350. Overbetting preflop is a bit nonsensical. Your arguement is that these donkeys will call with anything(yet 6 of them have already passed !!!!) well let them to a degree, we have a premium hand and want some value from it. If they are donkeys they will be worse than you post flop as well and you will get there stacks when they hit top or possibly worse. Also we should be stealing alot from late position and by making it less we can make stealing a better risk reward proposition. As for this zomg internet players, they are so bad compared to live players. Please can we stop it with the levelling, you only have to look at Lucky scrotes well, where he compares the $100 rebuy to EPTs. Villian played this hand alot better than OP. u think 5+ k into 800 is a good move ? Yes, completely standard. Any other raise commits around a 1/3 of our chip, meaning we should be never folding post flop. This way we get to see 5 cards, increase our fold equity etc. I suppose thats the beauty of poker..everyones got an opinion nobodys ever completley right....i still dont like the allin..u only get called by a hand that beats you and personally i can still play with the stack thats left if i have to fold on the flop..i looked at your blog longy...man u put some hours in..respect..that is true grinding...what s&g buyins r u playing? Title: Re: one hour in pass or fold Post by: Eck on July 17, 2008, 11:52:20 PM My Initial reaction was: The Guy in seat 9 is a Tool. rotflmfao Just seen this but QFMFT IMO Title: Re: one hour in pass or fold Post by: celtic on July 17, 2008, 11:53:25 PM My Initial reaction was: The Guy in seat 9 is a Tool. rotflmfao Just seen this but QFMFT IMO F*** he read it!!!! Title: Re: one hour in pass or fold Post by: Eck on July 17, 2008, 11:58:59 PM My Initial reaction was: The Guy in seat 9 is a Tool. rotflmfao Just seen this but QFMFT IMO F*** he read it!!!! ;nemesis; (mainly for horneris as i think vinnie is quite big ;hide;) Title: Re: one hour in pass or fold Post by: celtic on July 18, 2008, 12:06:08 AM My Initial reaction was: The Guy in seat 9 is a Tool. rotflmfao Just seen this but QFMFT IMO F*** he read it!!!! ;nemesis; (mainly for horneris as i think vinnie is quite big ;hide;) I AM VERY BIG. at least that's what i tell my girlfriend ;joestrummer; Title: Re: one hour in pass or fold Post by: Rookie (Rodney) on July 18, 2008, 12:43:42 AM My Initial reaction was: The Guy in seat 9 is a Tool. rotflmfao Just seen this but QFMFT IMO F*** he read it!!!! ;nemesis; (mainly for horneris as i think vinnie is quite big ;hide;) Depends if you call big, tall or wide? :P Sorry Vinnie! Title: Re: one hour in pass or fold Post by: celtic on July 18, 2008, 12:45:44 AM :)
Title: Re: one hour in pass or fold Post by: maldini32 on July 18, 2008, 12:49:35 AM Srsly whats the point of this thread?
You lost a flip, whats to analyze? Title: Re: one hour in pass or fold Post by: the sicilian on July 18, 2008, 12:56:28 AM My Initial reaction was: The Guy in seat 9 is a Tool. rotflmfao I think the words were get off me u fat fucker Just seen this but QFMFT IMO F*** he read it!!!! ;nemesis; (mainly for horneris as i think vinnie is quite big ;hide;) I AM VERY BIG. at least that's what i tell my girlfriend ;joestrummer; Title: Re: one hour in pass or fold Post by: Longy on July 18, 2008, 01:15:49 AM I suppose thats the beauty of poker..everyones got an opinion nobodys ever completley right....i still dont like the allin..u only get called by a hand that beats you and personally i can still play with the stack thats left if i have to fold on the flop..i looked at your blog longy...man u put some hours in..respect..that is true grinding...what s&g buyins r u playing? Thanks. Mid stakes sngs 20 -100. Having a week off this week, i told myself. But guess what im doing now, sigh. Title: Re: one hour in pass or fold Post by: the sicilian on July 18, 2008, 01:18:32 AM I suppose thats the beauty of poker..everyones got an opinion nobodys ever completley right....i still dont like the allin..u only get called by a hand that beats you and personally i can still play with the stack thats left if i have to fold on the flop..i looked at your blog longy...man u put some hours in..respect..that is true grinding...what s&g buyins r u playing? Thanks. Mid stakes sngs 20 -100. Having a week off this week, i told myself. But guess what im doing now, sigh. Title: Re: one hour in pass or fold Post by: Longy on July 18, 2008, 01:25:14 AM I suppose thats the beauty of poker..everyones got an opinion nobodys ever completley right....i still dont like the allin..u only get called by a hand that beats you and personally i can still play with the stack thats left if i have to fold on the flop..i looked at your blog longy...man u put some hours in..respect..that is true grinding...what s&g buyins r u playing? Thanks. Mid stakes sngs 20 -100. Having a week off this week, i told myself. But guess what im doing now, sigh. Party mostly, though i maybe on the move. Title: Re: one hour in pass or fold Post by: the sicilian on July 18, 2008, 01:40:35 AM I suppose thats the beauty of poker..everyones got an opinion nobodys ever completley right....i still dont like the allin..u only get called by a hand that beats you and personally i can still play with the stack thats left if i have to fold on the flop..i looked at your blog longy...man u put some hours in..respect..that is true grinding...what s&g buyins r u playing? Thanks. Mid stakes sngs 20 -100. Having a week off this week, i told myself. But guess what im doing now, sigh. Party mostly, though i maybe on the move. i used to play stars 50-200..some terrible players...what part of the country u from??...u play live? Title: Re: one hour in pass or fold Post by: Longy on July 18, 2008, 01:43:26 AM Im from Nottingham, can occasionally be found playing at DTD.
Title: Re: one hour in pass or fold Post by: the sicilian on July 18, 2008, 02:40:26 AM Nice one..hoping for a road trip to DTD for one of the bigger ones...but if u ever make it to Luton G...small cheap beer in the offing ;D
Title: Re: one hour in pass or fold Post by: AlexMartin on July 18, 2008, 03:29:28 AM Srsly whats the point of this thread? You lost a flip, whats to analyze? yeah, these tilt the fudge out of me too m8. can we have another hand like manchester again? that was fun. not worth £1k mind. Love the preflop 600 bet, so whats gonna jam on me now? Insane, just stick to what action dan says and get action from worse. Title: Re: one hour in pass or fold Post by: MANTIS01 on July 18, 2008, 10:04:11 AM Posted by: Longy
Quote Overbetting preflop is a bit nonsensical. Quote Also we should be stealing alot from late position and by making it less we can make stealing a better risk reward proposition. Pretty good post Longy. However, only someone who approaches poker from a purely mathematical perspective would say it makes no sense to overbet from a stealing position. I don't like the bet myself but I wouldn't go so far as to say it has no merit. The fact that we should be stealing a lot from here means that appearing to overbet is a good disguise for a premium hand. The fact the pusher is a regular aggressive player makes it a slightly more appealing option as well. It looks like a steal to me. Anyway, this wasn't the op's motivation for the bet so it WAS officially a bad bet. On that subject hugh, the motivation for your actions needs attention. Quote am always scared in these to get many callers You can't play poker like this. Being worried that your oppos will make mistakes, call you with worse hands, and give you money is an attitude that needs to be your chief worry right now.Quote i am raising to 600 as i think if i make 300 i will get called in 2 or 3 spots with any pp any ace and will see my self c betting flop having allowed trips to hit Next time you play please don't be worrying that your oppo will call you with a crushed smaller pair and hit trips. Or that someone will call you with A-rag. These are very weird worries to have if you like winning tournaments.Anyway the upshot is the op's overbet got a worse hand to push and his overbet looked suspiciously weak. So this overbetting lark has some sense in the end. Pre I like 400 with an aggressive bb. A nice blend of the two principles and much better than 250. Title: Re: one hour in pass or fold Post by: h on July 18, 2008, 07:43:34 PM i posted the hand as it was a good example of me busting out in a mtt it was not a FFS or ul me post Mantis your posts in particular have given me something to think about "On that subject hugh, the motivation for your actions needs attention" strikes a chord i think i need to think more about Raise sizes and what am i trying to achieve Thank you to all who posted Hugh Title: Re: one hour in pass or fold Post by: Royal Flush on July 19, 2008, 04:13:34 PM I am awaiting the arrival of Flushy on this thread with excitement. Esp for the reasoning for 600 raise analysis he will no doubt provide. I can't reply to this thread, if i did i would be 80% fave for a life ban Title: Re: one hour in pass or fold Post by: LuckyLloyd on July 20, 2008, 01:54:56 AM i make it 350 and go from there.... 600 though does look like 66-99 so you may have induced JJ to shove.......... This is an important point. If I was villain I would jam KQo there expecting the raise to 600 to be a mid pocket pair never more than JJ and that I'm flipping if they get it in but that there are people stupid enough to make it 6xbb with 99 - JJ and then fold when put in for their tournament life meaning I have decent FE. |