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http://uk.news.yahoo.com/skynews/20080907/tuk-hamilton-suffers-f1-title-blow-45dbed5.html

Hamilton demoted to 3rd after he was given a 25 second penalty after the race for an incident where he didn't gain anything as he gave the position back to Kimi?

Someone got F'ed over IMO.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7602830.stm

It honestly seems to me that the powers that be in F1 want to punish mclaren and Lewis at every oppurtunity they get it's a joke.This latest punishment is ridiculously unfair he let raikonnen go back past him so that he doesn't get punished and they still do,A 25second penalty WTF the sport at the minute is spoilt by the idiots that a running it imo.They are spoiling what has the potential to be an excellent sport again now the dominace of one team/driver is no more.

Biggest travesty of justice ever - even given Ferrari's position of favourite to win every objection ever........

still what a blinding race though, the last 5 laps were the best F1 action ive seen in years, brilliant!!

they should have a new system next year where the organisers can chose whether or not to turn the sprinklers around the track on at the end of a race but not let the teams know if they're gonna do it or not because that was PROPER racing!!!

Horrible decision, especially after Ferrari got away with it in the pits last race. He gave the position back straight away!

As said though, quality final 20 minutes

Should spray the track with water for the last ten laps of every race, lottery of course, but v exciting!

"He was accused of gaining an advantage by cutting the Spa circuit's Bus Stop chicane in a late-race battle with Ferrari's Kimi Raikkonen. (He was bumped there by Raikkonen having just gone ahead into the corner by a nose!)

McLaren announced that they intend to appeal the stewards' decision. "

Should think so too!

Rules say that you should not only give the position back, you're not allowed to attack the next corner either - he did.

No

F1 is a f'kin joke

Have to say when I saw it after the race (which I missed live), my immediate thought was that Lewis definitely wouldn't have been able to get by at La Source if it wasn't for the momentum he sustained by only just letting Kimi by.

I want Lewis to win as much as the rest of us but I think he won't be getting his win back.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rd2n1HxkRy8

What on earth is lewis supposed to do here raikonnen moves accross him and covers the whole corner is this not unsafe driving i thought you were supposed to leave a cars width if someone was trying to overtake you instead he cuts off the corner leaving hamilton no option other then to move to the side on to the other bit of track if i'm wrong here then fair enough.

Ferrari boss responds to Hamilton penalty
07 September 2008


Ferrari team principal Stefano Domenicali left Spa Francorchamps this evening with more than he expected after the end of the race as three hours later news emerged that Hamilton had been penalised and Ferrari's Felipe Massa inherited the win.

"I have often said that the race is not over until the official results are published and that was the case today," said Domenicali. "As usual, Ferrari will not comment on the Stewards' decision."

"After the race, we were called to the Stewards and we explained our position," We are very disappointed for Kimi, who had driven a great race and deserved the win, especially at this rather difficult time," he added. "This result is obviously very important for our Championship hopes: now we must maintain maximum concentration and prepare as well as possible for the forthcoming races, starting at Monza where we will be racing in front of our home fans. We will also need their support at such a delicate point in the season."

Ferrari meanwhile insisted they had nothing to do with the stewards' investigation and that they did not lodge a complaint.

Does anyone seriously think that if what Lewis did was even the tiniest bit wrong that ferrari wouldn't have appealed it ????

Niki Lauda v interesting on this, thinks its a complete travesty.

It is.

It might well be morally wrong to deduct time / points.  But Lewis and his team know they're not going to get any favours, and if that's the letter of the law, Ferrari ( sorry the FIA ) are going to stamp on him.

Having given way, then waiting until after the next bend wouldn't have let any distance grow between the two cars, and he could slipstream him at will.

It was just a rush of blood to do it immediately.  At this stage of the season, surely the most important thing in every race is to finish in front of Massa.

Dodgy team / race management imo.

Oh, and I've just read that because it was a drive through penalty, Mclaren can't appeal.

Frustrating to the extreme

So ignoring the penalty handed out, where does this leave Charlie Whiting?

As Race Director he knows the regulations inside-out and is the teams first point of contact.

He appears to have told McMerc (per RD's interview on ITV) that they had NOT broken the rules (in his OPINION), lets be totally factual here.

The stewards then decided that in fact LH was in breach of the regulations and hence the penalty was handed-down.

What is the Race Director's position during the race? Is it just to decide when the SC should be used and if the session/race should be red-flagged? what other responsibilities does the position hold?

Historically, teams contacted CW if there was any doubt about a pass/chicane-cut and then acted on his advice.

This has now been seen to be incorrect as CW's interpretation was at odds to that of the Stewards (granted the stewards didn't have to make a split-second decision).

So how will this affect team management in the future, will CW's advice be listened too any more and where can teams get accurate "rulings" during the race?

And where does this leave CW, is he now credible as a Race Director, or should the regs be tweaked so that any in-race "ruling" (as per RD comments, only CW's opinion in this case) be accepted by the stewards as the teams have acted upon that "ruling".

If that's the case and Lewis's team were told they had acted in an ok manner, then maybe I'm wrong and, the stewards should take that into account.

Basically, F1 as a whole is likely to be the biggest loser here.  If races are going to be decided 3 hours after they've finished, with 'He said this' and 'They said that' flying backwards and forwards, after what has been spectacular viewing.

Well, people won't bother watching, will they.

The problem is this is nothing new, it's been going on for so long.

Schumacher kicked out of the Belgium GP ('97??) for having a worn-down plank (used to increase the ride-height and hence reduce aero-grip), Schumi/Hill and Schumi/Jacques collisions. Last year, this list is almost endless for post-race decisions. (Senna/Prost anyone????).

The WDC it appears to be is mainly decided in the FIA courts in modern history.

As much as it pains me, F1 is NOT a sport, it's a business and as such, we shouldn't invest our souls into this "sport" as we do for our local (unless your a Man U fan!) football teams.

There will only ever be one winner in F1 (and no it's not the Driver's Champion), it's Bernie, as the song from Evita goes "And the money kept rolling in from all directions".

Vive la F1.

Justice will prevail when Lewis kick ferrari's arse in their own back yard!!!! total bollox ruling imo if it had effected the race outcome then maybe but the donk couldnt handle it in the wet!!

My initial reaction was that Lewis was a fool to himself.

But I am beginning to be swayed by your ( and other's ) subtle, yet eloquent arguments.

 ;)

It's his own fault for breaking FIA rules,it clearly states in rule 245 appendix J
 "no one is allowed to make the Ferrari drivers look like total prats as soon as it rains"

FYP

I think he needed some sort of penalty tbh, and I'm a massive Hamilton fan. He gained an advantage from not fully correcting back onto the track, if he had let Kimi have that corner and nailled him at the end of the long straight I think he'd have been fine (all be it a heel of a move in those conditions!).

Lewis in the middle of overtaking him on the corner and Kimi cut the gap off what was he supposed to do ?

lolz so hard at this thread, i missed the race so just watched the incident on youtube.

You have to be joking if you think that move should be allowed!!

Not make the move in the first place probably.

However making the move in the first place is not an offence! He had nowhere to go, was aware enough then to slow down

the point is he was 6mph slower gonig across the start line than Raikkonen, who was already ahead by then, after cutting the corner. He was allowing Raikkonen back past, which he did

from that point on it should be fair game, but clearly not in the Stewards eyes

of course with hindsight waiting a further corner he'd have got him soon enough

He was still in his slipstream, if he had failed the earlier manoeuvre and stayed on the track he would have been nowhere near close enough, or travelling at a speed anywhere near kimi, therefore he was still benefiting from cutting the corner.

I understand this, indeed you are correct. However he was only in the slipstream as Kimi moved across to block him (legally) after the start/finish line. Kimi holds his line, Hamilton never gets past.

well, we'll never know that. We do know that Lewis got past twice in the remaining 5 laps

what we know for sure is that Kimi looked like a muppet in the wet.

Yes but he did get past a direct result of cutting the corner, therefore he needs a penalty.

Nikki Lauda unequivocally condemned the penalty as unfair and opined that the stewards were nincompoops.