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Poker Forums => Poker Hand Analysis => Topic started by: Chompy on October 06, 2008, 05:20:13 PM



Title: Is limping/raising/shoving the way here?
Post by: Chompy on October 06, 2008, 05:20:13 PM
Later stages of a tournrmant, final two tables, blinds are 800-1600, you have 13000.
You're UTG on a full table and look at AJ suited, what's the best move?


Title: Re: Is limping/raising/shoving the way here?
Post by: jezza777 on October 06, 2008, 05:25:28 PM
depends who is in the blinds , what the other stacks are on the table. On a full table I am more than likley to fold but I might raise if the makeup was right. I am never limping.


Title: Re: Is limping/raising/shoving the way here?
Post by: Longy on October 06, 2008, 05:27:21 PM
shoooooooooooooove

The other options are all really bad with 8-9bbs



Title: Re: Is limping/raising/shoving the way here?
Post by: Horneris on October 06, 2008, 05:30:16 PM
depends who is in the blinds , what the other stacks are on the table. On a full table I am more than likley to fold but I might raise if the makeup was right. I am never limping.

Never EVER fold AJ suited with no action before you with 8-9BBs plz. :)

Unless a satellite ldo.


Title: Re: Is limping/raising/shoving the way here?
Post by: celtic on October 06, 2008, 05:35:38 PM
Later stages of a tournrmant, final two tables, blinds are 800-1600, you have 13000.
You're UTG on a full table and look at AJ suited, what's the best move?

flat call and hope to hit the flop..... if u miss then fold.


Title: Re: Is limping/raising/shoving the way here?
Post by: Chompy on October 06, 2008, 05:46:06 PM
I like the cut of your jib here Celtic, I would also limp.
If you raise to say 4000 and someone goes over the top, what you gonna do? Fold? No, so it's either limp or all in for me. Has to be a limp then. FACT.


Title: Re: Is limping/raising/shoving the way here?
Post by: AlexMartin on October 06, 2008, 06:04:40 PM
I like the cut of your jib here Celtic, I would also limp.
If you raise to say 4000 and someone goes over the top, what you gonna do? Fold? No, so it's either limp or all in for me. Has to be a limp then. FACT.

i think u should fold. AJ is too marginal.


Title: Re: Is limping/raising/shoving the way here?
Post by: DaveShoelace on October 06, 2008, 06:13:20 PM
Shove, in fact with less than ten big blinds I would be shoving a lot of shitty/suited/high card hands here because Id sooner go out swinging then find myself having to fold my blinds/make a decision for my tournament life on the next two hands. We also will have next to no fold equity if we have to fold both blinds.

Yes AJ doesnt play that well utg in a nine handed game, and we are hoping to avoid quite a few hands that dominate us, but its too strong to muck and you can easily get called by a hand you beat/have good equity against.

Oh and its suited, nothing beats that.


Title: Re: Is limping/raising/shoving the way here?
Post by: MC on October 06, 2008, 06:15:58 PM
shoooooooooooooove

The other options are all really bad with 8-9bbs

^^Agree...


Title: Re: Is limping/raising/shoving the way here?
Post by: MANTIS01 on October 06, 2008, 07:25:31 PM
Please, no more A-J hands.


Title: Re: Is limping/raising/shoving the way here?
Post by: totalise on October 06, 2008, 07:31:29 PM
cant answer the question until we know whether the button has AK or not imo


Title: Re: Is limping/raising/shoving the way here?
Post by: Charlie44 on October 06, 2008, 07:36:22 PM
For me it's either all in or fold.

For me if you limp in from UTG likely to induce limpers behind you, and less likely to win the pot. Even if you do hit top pair on the flop this may not be enough with many limpers.

It is a fold normally for me here unless the following exceptional circumstances.

1. You have a very tight image and the table is very tight i.e. where you'd expect to be called no more than 1 in 3 times. But here your fold equity means you could push all in with any 2 cards.

2. Where the above applies except the BB who is very loose and will call with a big range.  Here you still have a +cEV because more often than not you will be called with a worse hand.

Other than the above I would fold. You can afford another round of blinds and still have good fold equity and hope to have it folded to you at a later position next round - looking to survive until you hit a premium hand.


Title: Re: Is limping/raising/shoving the way here?
Post by: Longy on October 06, 2008, 08:01:05 PM
This is an inexploitable shove, calling ranges are irrelevant.


Title: Re: Is limping/raising/shoving the way here?
Post by: TheChipPrince on October 06, 2008, 08:48:34 PM
We also will have next to no fold equity if we have to fold both blinds.


I disagree with this, we'll still have 10,600, about 7 BB's. We can still get lots of players to fold with that stack down to the last two tables. Sometimes the average will not be more than 12-15 BB's in online MTT's.

Yes we shove AJ, but shoving 13k here with garbage i disagree with...


Title: Re: Is limping/raising/shoving the way here?
Post by: lucky_scrote on October 07, 2008, 12:06:54 AM
Shoving is good but folding isn't bad either.


Title: Re: Is limping/raising/shoving the way here?
Post by: ShatnerPants on October 07, 2008, 05:23:03 AM
We also will have next to no fold equity if we have to fold both blinds.


I disagree with this, we'll still have 10,600, about 7 BB's. We can still get lots of players to fold with that stack down to the last two tables. Sometimes the average will not be more than 12-15 BB's in online MTT's.

Yes we shove AJ, but shoving 13k here with garbage i disagree with...

I agree.  Sometimes

Depends on the stack sizes of the blinds if we fold to the button.  If the table is quite passive, and the blind's stacks aren't too high in comparison with ours, then I might well wait with the idea of shoving any two with position.

But if the table is a bit lively, and there is likely to be action before us when we're on the button, or the guys on my left are well stacked, then I take my chance, and gamble now


Title: Re: Is limping/raising/shoving the way here?
Post by: T_Mar on October 07, 2008, 12:03:01 PM
AJ is a no brainer shove for me with <10bb ..You will get called by worse a fair amount of the time imo, also happy to flip in this spot ...whats the alternative - Go through the blinds and and prey for a hand in the next orbit?


Title: Re: Is limping/raising/shoving the way here?
Post by: AlexMartin on October 07, 2008, 02:43:31 PM
i was joking btw, this is a 100% shove all day long. and chompy is levelling 100% too.


Title: Re: Is limping/raising/shoving the way here?
Post by: the sicilian on October 07, 2008, 03:40:48 PM
Shove... limp would be a sin and punishable  by sitting next to mad paul all night...


Title: Re: Is limping/raising/shoving the way here?
Post by: ThatsSoMinusEV on October 07, 2008, 06:57:29 PM
shoooooooooooooove

The other options are all really bad with 8-9bbs



+1 million

please do not limp, please do not fold, please do not raise any amount apart from all-in. Unless i could go 12,999 and be really funny


Title: Re: Is limping/raising/shoving the way here?
Post by: Chompy on October 07, 2008, 11:25:18 PM
Shove... limp would be a sin and punishable  by sitting next to mad paul all night...

LOL, Fingernail Tom to the left of me (Hello Tom!), Mad Paul to the right, here I am, stuck in the middle with +2


Title: Re: Is limping/raising/shoving the way here?
Post by: snoopy1239 on October 09, 2008, 04:10:47 AM
This is a shove and hope I'm afraid.


Title: Re: Is limping/raising/shoving the way here?
Post by: Amatay on October 09, 2008, 04:13:00 AM
Blast all day long


Title: Re: Is limping/raising/shoving the way here?
Post by: action man on October 09, 2008, 04:05:06 PM
shoooooooooooooove

The other options are all really bad with 8-9bbs



+1 million

please do not limp, please do not fold, please do not raise any amount apart from all-in.please do not pass go, please do not collect $200 imo Unless i could go 12,999 and be really funny



fyp