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I normally would never fly ryanair. It just so happens that on this ocassion they are the most convenient in terms of direct flight to a proper airport, and leave and return at times that are useful to us.

anyway, we all know their usual scams about the price starting low and getting to the ridiculous by the end of the booking process, but the latest jape really takes the biscuit.

For two people, they have just charged 16 quid for booking by debit card. not a credit card, but a debit card. Anyone who works in retail will tell you that there is a small overhead in accepting debit cards, and prob costs between 50p - #1 per transaction. There is absolutely no justification in this. In my opinion, since there is no alternative payment method which doesnt cost 16 quid, this should be reflected in the ticket price, as it is an unavoidable cost. (sneakily they say there is no charge for visa electron cards but you will be very hard pushed to find a uk customer with one of these, since no banks issue them anymore).

I dont mind paying, what I dont like is being scammed. this is legalised scamming.

http://www.europealacarte.co.uk/blog/2008/07/17/how-to-avoid-paying-the-recently-tripled-ryanair-debit-card-fee/

so thats how they get away with it - because technically it is still possible to pay with an electron card (even although it appears that only one bank still issues it - they say that the charge is "avoidable", and therefore doesnt need to be included in the fare.

this was on watchdog the other night, absolutely NO story IMO, the flight was "free", there was a 1p charge for something or other and the booking charge without visa electron was £4, so £4.01p for a flight, yeah what a rip off!!! ::)

indeed there is a story. you could go away and read up on the laws about unfair contracts and charges, and , deceptive advertising and pricing,  instead of just bumping yer gums about 1 penny fares.

The whole segment on watchdog was about deceptive advertising and unfair charges sorrounding Ryanair and the point i'm making is that there is no story IMO beause wtf difference does it matter if the £4 charge comes from booking, handling or extra lipgloss for the sexy flight attendent, it's a flight for £4 ffs!!!

Oi - leave Ryanair alone, they are my heroes.

If every business was run as ruthlessly efficiently as Ryanair, there would not be a credit-crunch.

The last time I looked, they had over €500 million "cash at bank". Not bad for a young Airline, with the most modern fleet in the world, run by Europe's #2 businessman.

Wondered how long it would take for you to get here Tikay.  Only an hour.  Pretty impressive for a busy Lad.

Thank you. I won't hear a word said against Ryanair. O'Leary is a God.

It's not the flight, the price of the flight or anything to do with the flight that's the problem - just the advertising.

The cost for debit cards to the retailer is less than 50p.  We pay less than that so I'm sure a huge company like Ryanair pay a lot less.

Yes it's expensive, but it's still a cheap flight and according to Watchdog, the wording had been changed.

Which i thought was quite a generous thing for them to do seeing as how the flight in itself is actually still "free"

It matters not a jot what the cost to Ryanair is. They are a business, not a charity & are entitled to charge whatever they wish. And their Customers have the choice - take it or leave it.

Note - Load Factors on Ryanair flights usually average around 80% - phenomonal by industry standards for short-haul airlines. So they must have a lot of customers. Happy punters, maybe not, but punters.

We pay about 10p for some of our clients - I'd expect Ryanair are paying more around that level.

I'm not one of their biggest fans, but to be fair - I'm off to Dublin meeting up with the IPO brigade tomorrow and booked a flight with Ryanair from Kerry to Dublin, instead of taking up any other option.  

Train - €56 RT.  Nowhere near where I need to be in the end, so add bus or taxi charges, food/drink costs and a whole lotta extra travel time.  Around €75-80 by the time I'm done.

Car - €50+ in petrol, plus motorway tolls and parking charges I don't even want to guesstimate, but for sake of argument say €100+  

Ryanair - €45 RT.  All in.  Add 1 taxi from airport to hotel for €10.  Hotel delivers you back to airport comp.  €55.  

Soooooooo, get there in record time, with very little hassle and save a few bob to boot.  Yes, the extra tenner for booking gets up me skin, but when you compare the lot...flying was the cheapest option.  

But ultimately if it's still the cheapest fare, it's a good thing.

And if it's not the cheapest fare then I blame the customer for not realising rather than the company for doing it.

this is exactly what he said when they interviewed him on watchdog and of course is right.

The guy on Watchdog was quite good I thought, I agreed with what he said and thought he put it across very well, to the point where he basically said take it or leave it.

actually one of my very very favourite things about ryanair, is the fact that their seats dont recline. its totally uneccessary, esp on short journies, and good news for us who need a bit more space.

do you not miss the "old days" though ? I watch a lot of older films and it seems to me that flying back in the 60's and early 70s was a far more glamourous thing to do.

I fly pretty regularly, and find it the most unpleasant experience. security, no smoking, luggage restrictions, etc  and they wonder why people get steamed up about it ???

The reason it was more glamourous back then was because the proles couldn't afford to fly.

emmm you get this years missing the point award.  The law says that airlines should state their prices up front - Ryanair don't reveal this excessive charge until the end of the booking process.



btw I have an electron card and tried to book using it - my booking was never confirmed and someone else ended up booking later.

pretty much every high street bank offers visa electron. lloyds, nat west and hsbc are I think the only ones that don't, the others will give you one if you ask. I've saved a fortune on flights with mine, easyjet do the same thing as do several other european budget airlines

So pretty much all, except for 75% of the big four high-street banks?

it's not 1980 anymore fool. while you were in your coma all the building societies became banks

And then went bust?

In terms of the number of high-street customers, they still are the big four, aren't they?

Big Five if you count HBOS :D

err, yeah but what's your point? mine was to let Laz know that it's not just 1 bank that issues them, it's quite a few

No point.  I don't even know why someone would have an electron card instead of a switch maestro one. 

Moving off at a tangent, this is the current (well 2007) split in terms of the market share for the banks (by numbers of customers):

(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc43/kinboshi/nbml.png)

So, like Graham said,  it is the 'big five' currently (although for how much longer, who knows).

to save £4 pp e/w on ryanair flights. did you even read the start of the thread?

electron used to have the problem that a lot of place didn't accept it but you can now use them anywhere, the last big company to refuse to accept it were british rail or whatever they're now called but they gave in this year.

so you can use it everywhere and you save on booking fees from quite a few companies, not just ryanair, so I don't know why anyone wouldn't have one tbh

its use seems to be getting phased out though - most banks which used to offer visa debit cards (delta as it was known) or electron, now all seem to offer the standard "visa debit" brand now.

i just phoned my bank and asked for one and they said they dont do them (Alliance and Leicester).

:D  I meant other than that!


British Rail?  It's not the 1980s you know, have you been in a coma? ;)


I'll have to be getting myself one.  Although I use credit cards usually, as I'm covered if things go tits up and I also get free insurance, etc.

really? they were still issuing them 6 months ago.

it does look as though electron and solo will both disappear at some point in favour of plain visa debit.

It's still pretty clear Ryanair are angleshooting anyway.

Ryanair are the perfect ruthless business model applicants. But unlike Tikay I really dont think that is all good. I am a bit of a capitalist, but that doesnt work in the current avaition sector. There are major safety and environmental issues that aren't looked after.

I'm not that fussed about 'hiden charges'. It just means a click or two extra before the customer to get to the full price.

Ryanair push the boundaries on their pilots to the absolute limts, and often beyond (if pilot reports are to believe). Their new fleet allows them to operate a schedule that an older one wouldnt. They will have a major incident in the not too distant future if they take futher steps to retain their margin over the downturn in the next couple of years.

Dont get me started on the lack of tax on aviation fuel!

Having said all this I do love the ability to cross the atlantic for the price of a couple of return train trips to London!

I heard it was Virgin airlines that drew out 1 billion from iceland banks that started the ball rolling

Do Virgi (http://travis.bosscasinos.com/re.asp?name=POK&camp=REF5111_0&go=http%3a%2f%2fwww.virginpoker.com)n (http://travis.bosscasinos.com/re.asp?name=POK&camp=REF5111_0&go=http%3a%2f%2fwww.virginpoker.com) have $1bn of reserves?! God knows where they would get any reserves from.

On the aviation front - BMI must be getting bought out soon (though they are private (I think) so of less interest!). They are sitting on an absolute gold mine of Heathrow slots.

Good point.  O'Leary made an absolute fool of himself after the loss of cabin pressure incident a couple of months ago.  When some passengers complained that they didn't get oxygen, he almost immediately stated that all the masks were working, before there was time for any kind of through investigation of the claims.   

Virgin Airlines don't have a bililon of reserves! But try peering through the murk of their Accounts & you'll end up dizzy, & cross-eyed.

We would not agree on much of the above - fine - except this bit.......

Dont get me started on the lack of tax on aviation fuel!

Which is simply THE most ridiculous thing imaginable. It needs no argument or debate,  I'm astonised nobody kicks up a fuss about it, but they bellyache & whine on & on about tax & duty on motor spirit & say nothing of aviation fuel being un-taxed!! The reason if course, is that every country would need to be in line on it, otherwise the arirlines would just source their fuel in the trax-free regimes.

It's plain dumb that we can fly inter-city & even pan-Europe for almost free in this age of green awareness.

Tax should be imposed on Aviation Fuel, & the punters should pay for it.

This, of course, is nothing to do with the Ryanair debate.

Oh yes, it used to be a much more enjoyable & less stressful experince, without spotty & snotty Budget-Airline Staff with shrilly voices shouting at all & sundry.

To be fair, I never flew untiul the mid-80's, as I was way too scared of flying.

But Ryanair, Easy-Jet & their ilk have been a truly wonderful thing for those of us who wish to travel, though even if they gave away the seats, there would still be folks moaning.

My only moan is that I invested heavily in BA Shares in the 80's & 90's, & Ryanair & EasyJet have destroyed BA's share price. Quite rightly too, I sadly admit, but my BA Shares remain at home, gathering dust but not capital appreciation, & very little by way of dividends.

I actually heard a typical "let's all have a meaningless moan at Ryanair" story today from Chili, but I think I'll Post that on my Diary, I may get too warm a reception here!

Probably, but punters only have themselves to blame for paying it.

The charge IS on the Booking Form, & punters do not HAVE to fly Ryanair.

re: your ba shares

didn't warren buffet say that no industry has pissed share holder capital against the wall quite like the airline industry?

Yup. After I purchased my BA Holding.

He was wrong about Ryanair's Shares though - what a great investment they were!

Ryanair is modelled on (copied frrom, in fact) an American Low-Cost Airline, SouthWest Airlines, which Buffett thinks is a quite splendid exception to standard industry thinking. As are Ryanair, with Easy-Jet rather less so.

The impact of 9/11 and it's contribution to the low cost airlines growth is also pretty interesting. You have to admire what is probably best described as balls I guess.  It's all such simple stuff too, yet you still get companies trying to go against porter's Market strategies and failing badly!

I think I had a nearmiss incident last night, went through the cheap flight general websites, which took me to edreams dot com, pretty good deals on there. I very nearly booked the flight on there but it appeared to be a 'No frills', so I went to Ryanair direct. Ryanair's website plastered with info about EU lawsuit with airfare screenscrapers, mentioning edreams directly. Wonder if they'll even honour flights booked via edreams and the like any more?

Some pretty tasty deals on offer at the mo however, return to Faro mid december for 20 quid all in, I won't begrudge them the 40 percent debit card fee...

Never mind the economics of Ryan Air, I'll be impressed when they do a landing which I actually feel confident I'll survive.