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I read today that shops are starting to tag the more expensive cuts of meat like topside of beef to curb an anticipated increase in theft of meat because of the economic problems.

I was speaking to a cashier at TK Max last week who told me that they suffer from just over £2k a day in shoplifiting in their shop alone. (Not sure how true that is it seems an awful lot) He then went on to say that for the first hour of opening they experience the most shoplifting and the police regularly park outside to save time for this hour. Their best 'haul' that week had been 7 shoplifters in the first hour of trading.

I'm not sure if there is a difference between stealing food or cushions. I know I have stolen time, phonecalls, pens and post it notes from employers in the past so I am not entirely innocent.

If I were desperate and needed to feed my family would I be capable of stealing? I probably would if I had hungry childen to feed but my first port of call would be to my family and friends, if only to blag a meal off them to help me out. How bad does it have to be to steal from a stranger?

Lastly - if I were to steal from a shop to feed my family I would be stealing basics like bread, mince, pasta, things I can make go further with creative cooking. Stealing topside of beef would be pointless, so is it the really desperate that are stealing topside or those that just fancy something a bit more pricey this week for Sunday lunch?

lol, it's not people stealing steak to feed their family, it's drug addicts that will have regular customers to whom they sell the meet on to.

irrespective of the current economic climate in this country there isn't a person who would have top steal food in fear of starvation for themself or their family.

I suspect that it's a lot easier to steal topside of beef then it is crates of beer and fags - therefore steal the food and use the money saved to buy the alcohol and fags.

The most likely alternative to this is that you do this 100 times a year and sell of the meat at the pub, the money you make is well worth the hassle of the 2 or 3 times you get in trouble with the law.

I don't expect any of the people involved in shoplifting food are doing it because it's the only way to feed their family.

TK Maxx shops are such a mess (rails close up against each other, stuffed with twice as many clothes as they can cope with, resulting in clothes all over the floor) that they must be a shoplifter's paradise - it seems very easy to shove some stuff up your jumper.

Shoplifters are generally not stealing stuff for consumption - they're stealing to sell it on (for booze or drugs), so they don't care what they take, as long as they think someone will buy it.

Oh. In my niave little world I had visions of the widows mite stealing to feed the family. I had forgotten about the drugs option.

Andrew - TK Max Milton Keynes - the best organised TK Max in the world.

In the same way I agree with your first comment I disagree with your second.

Yes addicts are stealing to fund their habit, I see the result each week. However the Benefits Agency is so bureaucratic that many cliams are waiting to be processed or stopped by mistake leaving people without the ability to feed themselves or families.

Doesn't this say something about society? We have to steal now whereas as a community we would have got together and helped each other out? Have we becaome a world where we rely on the state and ignore the help closer to hand?

There are some who have no family or the like to whom they can turn.

i struggle to believe that's true(to that extent anyway) where people could be allowed to go without the means to live.

I can believe that the ineptitude of government would create a backlog in payments and other bureaucratic delays but not to a point where people cant eat?

I can think of three examples of people who i know claim benefit........a woman in her 40s who gets sick money, and friend who signs on and a girl with 3 children, i know they dont all get the same kind of benefit but am also aware of never hearing of them having to go without food or having money for utilities; surely theres not a person in the country that if cannot provide for themselves are not entitled to a state benefit that is sufficient to provide them with at least the basic necessities?

I don't think there has ever been any time in history where people haven't stolen: either because they were poor, or just as a career choice.

Doesn't it say a lot for the advancement of civilisation that we pay taxes and donate to charities to help people who live outside our communities?  This benevolent altruism is far less selfish an act than looking after someone in the local community (who in primitive human times would be someone who was most likely a close relative and therefore people would have a vested interested in helping them).

The fact that the majority of people don't have to steal or beg to live is a positive aspect of society, isn't it?

I suspect that it happens, but only to a statistically insignificant extent.

It would mean a family being left with literally no money, as when they have any money at all then food will get bought.

Please believe. I can think of 3 recent examples I have come across where this has happened.

IS it ok to steal from shops?

No. End of story.

illegal immigrants aside, a British citizen not entitled to any benefit and the state happy for them to go without, under what circumstances could that happen?

i know you cant divulge specifics if it's from something you've encountered in your profession but if you can generalise i'd be interested to know?

but what about if it's really easy and there's no security guard or cameras and the shops got some really nice stuff?

What about from record companies, film companies, TV stations, ISPs, etc.?

Property is theft, end of. You can't steal what they don't own.

sent a PM, feel free to react on here, no details.

it does seem to me that if there are exceptional circumstances that arnt the fault of the individual and that person is entitled to benefits then they should be able to make some discretionary payment of money to them or have a voucher system whereby they can secure for themselves food and utilities until the system catches up and the proper payments are made to them.

It seems incredible to me it can ever be the contention of the state that a person should go without the means on which to live because of procedural inefficiency causing inordinate delays in benefit claims being processed!

As i said in my pm maybe a voucher system similar to that put in place for immigrants claiming benefit whilst waiting to hear whether or not they can stay(i know this was the case a few years ago, i dont know if they still do it now) because i understand the risk of making antecedent payments to people who it may transpire subsequently had no entitlement but this is a way the government could lower the liability on people who it turns out arnt eligible and can make sure those that are have the means on which to live whilst wating for a deccission on their claim

I happen to know that these vouchers that they give to immigrants cannot be redeemed for tobacco or alcohol because i knew a kosovan that worked on a site with a few of mates and drank in my local and used to get these vouchers whilst working cash in hand so he used to spend his wages on nice things and the vouchers on toiletries and food, one night we all went back to his gaff to play cards and ive never seen a house with so much food and toiletries, he mustve had about 8 shower gels, 10 deodorants, 20 bottles of juice etc!

Legislators are out of touch... and well fed.

close down the internet !! the discussion is over.

The whole benefits system is poorly run, and seemingly by staff who are unable to read or write. Have a client currently awaiting benefits. Open and shut case too. Has been waiting 3 months.
When my son was born, and we filled the forms for child benefit and tax credits. They got his date of birth wrong, despite being sent a copy of the birth certificate. This resulted in them overpaying a month. When we pointed this out they claimed the month back, but still used 'their' date of birth, so reduced the payments a month early!!

I need a quick answer cos I'm going out for lunch in a minute. is it ok to eat a meal and then leg it without paying the bill?

You can't do a runner from McDonalds - they ask for money up front.

cafe.......no

pizza hut.............yes

Wimpy........go in with intention of paying, eat the meal, re-asses when the bill comes.

cheers. I'm going to the local cafe so based on solid advice will pay my bill

No!

It's never right to steal.*

* E & OE, & Big Blinds.

so you bought the tank top/shirt ensemble??

Ouch - class response Sir!

And it's NOT a tank-top, thank you very much.

Pierre Cardin, pure Cashmere.

A Pierre Cardin, pure Cashmere tank top

Inputting errors aside (they do happen, no ones perfect)...I reckon the main cause of delays is the Government is closing down many benefit offices and reducing staff numbers. This leads to the remaining staff under pressure and errors are made and delays do occur.

Maybe they should just get exactly half the unemployed to work in the benefit offices, who can sort out the claims for the other half.

LOL, me and my ex once did an irish runner from a curry house at 3am in the morning. We ordered the full monty, and after eating 1 popadom each decided we were too tired to hang around so we legged it!

Thank you for your contribution, I'll put it my bosses tomorrow. :)

So you stole because you were hungry? I might have had sympathy for your plight if it was a packet of Tesco own brand digestives that we found up your jumper, but these are McVities Jaffa Cakes. You have left me no choice but to alert the authorities.

Great being middle class, innit?  ;)

Of course it is ok to steal from shops Tracey, then break the bones of the person trying to stop you. You will get let off, but don't talk on your mobile phone whilst driving as that is a serious offence.

it is if it causes you to hit someone

Does anyone know if it is an offence for a police man to use his/her radio walky talky thingy me bob whilst driving?

I agree.

Us drivers should not be allowed to talk / eat / drink soft drinks / tune the radio in / the list continues whilst driving. We shouold be boxed in.

I'm doing a moral philosophy course at the moment.

I want to know if it's ok to miss lectures?

My morals still stand. You break the law you pay. I do find it hard though to understand how some laws broken get repetavive warnings and others don't.

depends what you're doing instead ::)

No its not an offence Maureen, same as it is ok for taxi drivers to use 2 way radios.

Stealing from shops! In the Philippines there is much poverty, no benefit system, in the city I was living in there are many people/families begging, but shoplifting I believe is very rare or certainly not reported as the crime rate is almost zero, regardless of stories/reports( and i do believe things are different in the south of the country), i never saw any trouble in all the time i was there and certainly felt safer there walking the streets day or night than I do in this country.