blonde poker forum

DTD £300 freezeout.

Rough recollection of the hand but you will get the idea.

75/150 most people have circa 10k

6 limpers on my BB
I look down at  7d  7s and make it 700 more to play.

Midposition caller and the button.

Flop comes down  Ahrt 4h 7h

Im a little confused in this situation and decide to check to see what happens. (Thoughts please)
Midposition bets out 1800
Button raises to 3650

What the hell do i do with my set?
Should one of them have the made flush?
Do my outs justify a shove anyway?

Further action to follow..........  ;)

Check pre. Shove now.

have to ask noble on this one. The bet and raise contain information - I'm just not sure what it is.

Sick spot tho

i think shove here, rthe reraiser is not the one i would fear at this point it sthe initial raiser, he probably bet out with his big pair with a heart, the reraiser is trying to protect his ace tbh from what i see anyways but i suck like a dyson.

its a shove for me you have the redraw anyways.

Shove - one of them has KJo.

Firstly, I would say offering no information about either oppo's playing style or your own image means that we are just guessing based on the action alone. So the guesses are not going to be all that accurate. This is the 3rd level so there must be something that will help us get to the bottom of this. No less than 6 limpers suggests the table's a bit nitty and they don't juice the pot without a hand.

You take quite a strong line pre-flop and that is ok, but you then freeze and check the flop which I don't get. You are going to get business from Aces and single hearts in this situation so a c-bet is ideal imo. And having it checked around and seeing a 4th heart drop would be horrible for you. If you bet out and it went raise, re-raise, you would deffo be in trouble imo. So I think a c-bet would clarify the situation for you better, as well as serving to build a bigger pot. As it stands it's difficult not to think you're in trouble anyway. It's tough to put either oppo on 2-pair considering you hold two of the 7's and obv a set of Aces is impossible. The best you could hope for is the first guy holding an Ace and the 2nd guy holding a set of 4's. It's difficult to think early in a £300 event the limping nits have found their balls and are pumping it up light here, especially min-raise guy who must surely have the flush already.

I don't post often on PHA but I'm learning so I'll have a bash.

I think the opposite of Billy,

I think the button may well have better than MP guy.

I bet the flop here probs 1800-2000, by betting I feel I have more control of the pot. By not betting here I think MP guy is on a steal as he thinks buttton made up for value and MP has Ax at the most.

Button may recognise this and is playing to isolate/take the pot, although poss has a decent flush draw.


I shove here too

Geo

(now show me I'm a complete novice.)

Maybe Geo, but I can't see these still-on-their-starting-stacks-limpers suddenly turning into steal-re-stealers on a 3 heart board early in a £300 comp. It's like John Sergeant suddenly turning into John Travolta. I can see button boy making a shitty call with  Kh Th on the button though.

Yes mate, I never worded to well.

When I say to isolate/take the pot I'm thinking possible made flush (am also thinking nitty pre call by button), however there is still the possibility he's on the flush draw. and with my redraws here I still shove.

Hope this makes sense

Geo

Surely if i check pre I would be in an even tougher spot now?

Yes yes, your mother had KJo  ;whistle;

Apologies for the lack of info Mantis, I was just trying to get the main bits down before I went to sleep.
Trying to block out what followed during the night I would say the following about the two players involved.

MP - Seemed to know what he was doing, took a lot of thought over most bets, had taken a battering but worked his stack back up to 10kish.
Button - Again seemed pretty solid, hadnt been involved in too many hands.

Sorry if thats a bit lacking but, im trying to blank out what i learnt through the rest of the evening.

Thanks for posting Geo.

The line i was taking was that if one of them bet, i could reraise, this would look strong and define my situation well.
When MP bet and the Button happily reraised it caught me a little of guard.

I would always check pre here, your out of postion with more than likely 2 over cards a lot of the time, can't see what raising here does.

As it is now, I'd shove, if one has the flush already, your nearly getting the odds to call even if he turns it face up...

stu, what was your thinking pf? the bet size seems a little odd to me with 6 limpers

Tks Stu,

Thats why I like to bet out here, your problem isn't that you got the raise but you also get a re-raise. If I bet out here and I get MP re-raise,  Button calll or re-re- raise it's an easier fold.

Again I hope that makes sense.

Geo

If we are going to be results orientated, then the answer to this is no. As the pot would be smaller and therefore you would have more options than fold/shove (calling effectively commits us to the hand).

As for the hand I would check my option pre, with a table that is seeing 6/7 to a flop you are going to pick up a few callers with a hand that is difficult to play post flop, oop and multiway.

I would bet this flop all of the time, we have a strong but vunerable hand. So i am doing this mainly for value and a bit of protection. As played you leave self in a pretty crap spot as I can imagine in these tournies not many are committing there stack without a strong hand. I would probably get it in as the pot is already offering a nice overlay and even against a made flush we spike our house a 1/3 of the time, but it is probably close.

Whack it in and then stand up and instruct the dealer to pair the board.

this

I def just peel off a flop here, too tricky a hand to play OOP with so many limpers, just see a flop.

once youve raised pre come out fireing, i'm only checking to trap here so once theres action s-s-s-s-s-s-sHOVE!!!

My preflop raise was to get 1 or 2 callers so I could know where I stood a bit more on the flop.
I find myself doing this too much, partly because I hate people limping all the time.

As discussed last night, its not the right move, because im really only looking for a 7, and if i find one I want everyone in the pot.

I agree with the rest of the guys and say that I would also check pre. But then again I don't think your raise is altogether bad, trying something else once in a while is plain ok. If you have a pretty solid image you're representing a stronger hand than you actually have, and if you intend to bet a number of flops e.g. K-x-x then the line is ok imo. If you don't hit your set and you just c-fold then that would make your raise bad imo. But if you do plan to bet these flops when you don't hit it makes even more sense to be consistent and bet when you do. This way your oppos can never be sure whether you have the nuts or air.

Now that you haven't bet out and you're faced with heavy action, especially the committing min-raise from a tight player, I wouldn't push all-in on the draw. The 1st guy is certain to have an Ace at least, but could have a set of 4's, and if you're behind to the flush, which I think is probable, a number of your outs may already be dead.

That is how i like to play, shorten the number of people in the pot then bet out on boards that I would appear to have hit. I would be c-betting any board that only had one over.
I have a pretty tight image and rarely have to show hands.

did you tell everyone you hadn't looked at your hand?

I really don't like the raise pre flop oop with this many limpers even if u do plan to c-bet. You could have picked up a lot more callers in this spot.

I think the way the action has gone you should get it in but next time just c-bet.

Fair enough. But if that's the case then betting out when you hit a set is pretty vital to balance your play. Because if you check your set after raising, then give action, you are going to be a very easy player to strat against. Cos when you bet out it's likely you have a mediocre hand and when you c-call/raise you prob have a strong hand. So betting out for value & protection like Longy said as well as betting to balance your range gives you 3 very good reasons to bet out.

How do you know about this cos?

He used the line on me the first and only time I met Stu, when I raised JJ utg in a cash game and he repopped it quite big on the button. Instead of shoving pre I decided to peel a flop and get it in on the safe 1087 flop to be instacalled when Stu remarkably found his blind reraise was with kings.

[  ] I was upset when the  9d hit the turn

sick spot, i run good though so buy the table a round to generate good karma then shove.

I run bad, so the drinks...and the bill would arrive after I'd left the building. Not altogether bad I suppose.

I also just check preflop. 6 limpers + mid pocket pair = ideal imo.

Raising isn't bad, but I don't think you raised enough to get the folds you were after. If I was to raise here I put in at least an extra 1000 to either take the pot there and then (decent result in itself as it contains 1050) or try and get heads up.

Ah

I can honestly say that i had not looked at my cards when i first raised. It was meant to be a straddle that was just a little late.
I thought you may have been reffering to a more recent incident of not looking at my cards carnage.

[ ] Not looking at my cards is big
[ ] Not looking at my cards is clever
[X] Not looking at my cards is frickin stupid
[ ] Ive got your jack out my eye
[X] That sounds a liitle wrong

Anyway, as you may have guessed I folded.

I figured it was the best plan, I thought I was behind, I feel I have a big edge in these tournaments, especially against my starting table in this event, I could find easier/better spots.

MP then moves all in. Whats his range here?

If it was who I think it was then pretty much atc.

Im assuming you didnt know this at the time though?

June, you didnt rly fold did you?

Im afraid so Hannah

pretty much of the opinion as mantis,but as played you should lead out,just over 1/2 pot would be ok..
i would not look to check raise OOP on a 1 suited flop with a set, maybe i might on a 2 suited flop but you need to know your opponents will bet out the majority of the time to do this as potentially with you OOP your opponent can now check and get a free turn card.
As played though i would FOLD due to the action, if they are solid? then i'd expect to see on this particular texture of flop 44 or a made flush...Its hard to think of anything that will limp call raise and then for 2 solid players to get aggressive about on this texture board,small pairs and suited connectors fit the action maybe 1 has hit 2 pair with a raggy suited ace A4s ?

Saying that you'll probably say that they both had utter cack  ;D

if you go all in you are about 1.9 to 1 to make your boat against a made flush...not good for your bankroll if you keep taking these type of odds early on in mtts in the long term imo...

just fold for information

MP moves all in.
Button dwells and folds AQ no hearts.
MP then shows A3 (the 3 was a heart!)

I then call them both a pair of crazy betting bastards.
I get told of for swearing.
General convo about my nitty fold.
Unrelated player tells me im tighter than a virgin jew.

Worked out well though as with all the banter goin on i picked up  Ks Qs on a  Jc Ts  7s board.
Stacked the bloke next to me because he thought i wasnt upset about the last hand.

Fool. I was proud of my nitty fold.  ;D

P.s. Mid position player was the tez guy who came 8th, didnt deserve to be in after the first couple of hours. Everyone should watch out for him. He will happily reraise you all in if he has two vaguley connected cards under 6. Comes across as if he is tight and knows the game but after a while you realise he is a clown.

It's a good pass then.

MP would've hit his heart and gone around shouting and screaming and you'd have been forced to punch him in the mouth.

You would then be banned and on life tilt for losing to such a shite player.

However, on the plus side you would've been Chill's hero for punching the guy who muffed her KK with his 3 5.

I think the guy who had the overpair to his 2 4 would've been quite happy as well. AIPF and he goes jumping round and runs half way across the cardroom when he flops A 3 5 for the straight.

Teeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeewat!!!!!

MP - Seemed to know what he was doing

MP - Is a clown

Yep, this is gonna make a difference. Also means button's raising range is far wider than we first thought.

Mantis this was done intentionally.

He lost a lot of his stack early and then rebuilt it with some well times raises etc.
This hand was the first time we got to see his clown side.
Upto this point i dont think anyone at the table would have realised how bad he was.

If i told you it was the guy who knocked Chilli out, the guy who Dingdell describes as loving low connected cards, or the guy who needed a punch in the mouth on day 2 when he won the 4 2, it would of obviously been different.

I tried to describe him as I viewed him pre that hand.

I adjusted to his terribleness after this, and the Chilli hand. I got it in good and he knocked me out.

For sure. Not having a pop about that buddy, just highlighting what a big difference it makes.

Didnt think you were having a go Mantis, just making sure were on the same page.

Thanks for your thoughts and opinions.

Same to everyone else. Turns out im a little tighter than I thought.  :D