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Title: 10r 3 handed with history Post by: George2Loose on January 30, 2009, 10:47:03 PM OK played lunchtime 10r on stars today. 3 handed when this hand occurred and after some feedback. wanna post street by street.
History- I've been quite active and a little bit spewy. I have bluffed off to villian sb/bb a couple of hands where he's basically called pre and owned me post flop. Bout 5 mins before this hand occured I've 3 bet shoved from button with K6 off as when he re raised from sb. What do you do here and why? PokerStars Game #24435490208: Tournament #136336588, $10+$1 Hold'em No Limit - Level XXVIII (25000/50000) - 2009/01/30 15:37:29 ET Table '136336588 54' 9-max Seat #8 is the button Seat 4: wokkel101 (1544533 in chips) Seat 5: mill88mike (2066037 in chips) Seat 8: George2Loose (1418930 in chips) wokkel101: posts the ante 5000 mill88mike: posts the ante 5000 George2Loose: posts the ante 5000 wokkel101: posts small blind 25000 mill88mike: posts big blind 50000 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to George2Loose [3h 3d] George2Loose: raises 72997 to 122997 wokkel101: raises 227003 to 350000 mill88mike: folds George2Loose: ??? Next part coming up Title: Re: 10r 3 handed with history Post by: amcgrath1uk on January 30, 2009, 11:06:30 PM shout me for a rail 1st ffs...
pocket pair 3 handed.. I'm getting them in Title: Re: 10r 3 handed with history Post by: George2Loose on January 30, 2009, 11:10:28 PM shout me for a rail 1st ffs... pocket pair 3 handed.. I'm getting them in lol sorry Asa- next time ;) Title: Re: 10r 3 handed with history Post by: MC on January 30, 2009, 11:42:12 PM I think you have to shove here, as he could be 3 betting light, and there are hands he could pass if you shove.
I'm assuming you flatted, based on wanting to go street through street? Apologies if I'm being presumptious... Not a huge fan of flatting here, -If he has an overpair, we're screwed anyway, cos any flop that we like, he likes too. -If he's 3bet light, you're giving him a chance to hit a flop -If it comes AT7 we get away from the hand with chips remaining, but could be getting bluffed out Title: Re: 10r 3 handed with history Post by: George2Loose on January 30, 2009, 11:51:22 PM yes obv i did flat lol- just wanting opinions on whether most people would shove- I thought I was too deep to 3 bet shove.
Title: Re: 10r 3 handed with history Post by: MANTIS01 on January 30, 2009, 11:54:09 PM Shove is good for me too. Your history & image mean villain does this with atc, so your FE is sizeable. If you say this guy has owned you post flop then calling to play a pot he already has the initiative in with 3-3 is making life really difficult for yourself imo. If he's winning the battle post then win the battle pre instead.
Title: Re: 10r 3 handed with history Post by: MC on January 31, 2009, 12:08:19 AM yes obv i did flat lol- just wanting opinions on whether most people would shove- I thought I was too deep to 3 bet shove. Yeah I see your point man, and it's fairly risky, but in this spot I think it's probs best option... Title: Re: 10r 3 handed with history Post by: amcgrath1uk on January 31, 2009, 12:20:41 AM shout me for a rail 1st ffs... pocket pair 3 handed.. I'm getting them in lol sorry Asa- next time ;) [/quote no worries.. might be shouting myself soon ;) 7/87 in the 10k on stars... and thinking again, I can easily, depending on my thoughts at the time, flat, shove or fold in this situation...lol Title: Re: 10r 3 handed with history Post by: LeKnave on January 31, 2009, 05:01:30 AM yes obv i did flat lol- just wanting opinions on whether most people would shove- I thought I was too deep to 3 bet shove. juuuuune you have 30x, when has tht been too deep to 4bet shove. its more too shallow than too deep lol. Title: Re: 10r 3 handed with history Post by: George2Loose on January 31, 2009, 09:42:26 AM yes obv i did flat lol- just wanting opinions on whether most people would shove- I thought I was too deep to 3 bet shove. juuuuune you have 30x, when has tht been too deep to 4bet shove. its more too shallow than too deep lol. Where do we start to get to deep to shove in this spot? Would u ever peel in this spot or is 33 to vunerable? Would it be better if I was OOP to have first bluff option on flop. Anyway I flatted! Flop came down 942 rainbow and villian shoved for 1m into 500k.... Is this a fist pump call or have I created this problem for myself? Is he shoving any flop? Title: Re: 10r 3 handed with history Post by: MANTIS01 on January 31, 2009, 11:20:54 AM Would it be better if I was OOP to have first bluff option on flop?
I don't think you want or need to see a flop either way Flop came down 942 rainbow and villian shoved for 1m into 500k.... No shit Is this a fist pump call or have I created this problem for myself? Is he shoving any flop? It can only be a fist pump call if you've trapped him with 3-3. Have you trapped him? I haven't got a clue. Is why pushing pre is +1 for me. Title: Re: 10r 3 handed with history Post by: T_Mar on January 31, 2009, 12:06:12 PM The best you can hope for by calling is to be flipping against overcards.. This is a pretty loose range so you probs worse off
Text results appended to pokerstove.txt 399,960 games 0.047 secs 8,509,787 games/sec Board: 9h 4c 2d Dead: equity win tie pots won pots tied Hand 0: 48.800% 48.65% 00.15% 194576 606.00 { 3h3s } Hand 1: 51.200% 51.05% 00.15% 204172 606.00 { 22+, A2s+, K9s+, Q9s+, J9s+, T9s, 97s+, A2o+, K9o+, Q9o+, J9o+, T9o, 97o+ } 4bet pre ftw Title: Re: 10r 3 handed with history Post by: Royal Flush on January 31, 2009, 02:39:54 PM The best you can hope for by calling is to be flipping against overcards.. This is a pretty loose range so you probs worse off Text results appended to pokerstove.txt 399,960 games 0.047 secs 8,509,787 games/sec Board: 9h 4c 2d Dead: equity win tie pots won pots tied Hand 0: 48.800% 48.65% 00.15% 194576 606.00 { 3h3s } Hand 1: 51.200% 51.05% 00.15% 204172 606.00 { 22+, A2s+, K9s+, Q9s+, J9s+, T9s, 97s+, A2o+, K9o+, Q9o+, J9o+, T9o, 97o+ } 4bet pre ftw [ ] That flop shove range is right. George i would just jam pre, as played its a call. Title: Re: 10r 3 handed with history Post by: T_Mar on January 31, 2009, 02:59:35 PM The best you can hope for by calling is to be flipping against overcards.. This is a pretty loose range so you probs worse off Text results appended to pokerstove.txt 399,960 games 0.047 secs 8,509,787 games/sec Board: 9h 4c 2d Dead: equity win tie pots won pots tied Hand 0: 48.800% 48.65% 00.15% 194576 606.00 { 3h3s } Hand 1: 51.200% 51.05% 00.15% 204172 606.00 { 22+, A2s+, K9s+, Q9s+, J9s+, T9s, 97s+, A2o+, K9o+, Q9o+, J9o+, T9o, 97o+ } 4bet pre ftw [ ] That flop shove range is right. George i would just jam pre, as played its a call. fair enough.. can see range is ridic wide, out of interest tho how come you make it a call when equity only decreases as you tighten the range up? Title: Re: 10r 3 handed with history Post by: MANTIS01 on January 31, 2009, 03:08:23 PM The best you can hope for by calling is to be flipping against overcards.. This is a pretty loose range so you probs worse off Text results appended to pokerstove.txt 399,960 games 0.047 secs 8,509,787 games/sec Board: 9h 4c 2d Dead: equity win tie pots won pots tied Hand 0: 48.800% 48.65% 00.15% 194576 606.00 { 3h3s } Hand 1: 51.200% 51.05% 00.15% 204172 606.00 { 22+, A2s+, K9s+, Q9s+, J9s+, T9s, 97s+, A2o+, K9o+, Q9o+, J9o+, T9o, 97o+ } 4bet pre ftw [ ] That flop shove range is right. George i would just jam pre, as played its a call. fair enough.. can see range is ridic wide, out of interest tho how come you make it a call when equity only decreases as you tighten the range up? Nah dude, that range isn't wide enough. Villain will shove it in very wide cos he knows checking prob means conceding the pot. So the problem is you simply have no clue whether he's hit or not, and this is why calling pre just sets yourself up for a call and hope here. Pushing pre uses your chips in an infinitely better way. Title: Re: 10r 3 handed with history Post by: T_Mar on January 31, 2009, 03:14:50 PM The best you can hope for by calling is to be flipping against overcards.. This is a pretty loose range so you probs worse off Text results appended to pokerstove.txt 399,960 games 0.047 secs 8,509,787 games/sec Board: 9h 4c 2d Dead: equity win tie pots won pots tied Hand 0: 48.800% 48.65% 00.15% 194576 606.00 { 3h3s } Hand 1: 51.200% 51.05% 00.15% 204172 606.00 { 22+, A2s+, K9s+, Q9s+, J9s+, T9s, 97s+, A2o+, K9o+, Q9o+, J9o+, T9o, 97o+ } 4bet pre ftw [ ] That flop shove range is right. George i would just jam pre, as played its a call. fair enough.. can see range is ridic wide, out of interest tho how come you make it a call when equity only decreases as you tighten the range up? Nah dude, that range isn't wide enough. Villain will shove it in very wide cos he knows checking prob means conceding the pot. So the problem is you simply have no clue whether he's hit or not, and this is why calling pre just sets yourself up for a call and hope here. Pushing pre uses your chips in an infinitely better way. wow, going wider means that he's 3betting pre with basically any 2 ?? Title: Re: 10r 3 handed with history Post by: MANTIS01 on January 31, 2009, 03:24:09 PM Yeah, I would say that's about right. The guy's got momentum over George, who's image is spewy & bluffy, so atc is indeed his range. The call with 3-3 pre plays into his hands and keeps George on the back foot. So the guy 3bets with atc pre and shoves flop with atc. It's just a real pisser when he shows 9-x or 4-x ftw. The shove pre not only gets this filth mucked but also changes the momentum of the battle.
Title: Re: 10r 3 handed with history Post by: EvilPie on January 31, 2009, 03:24:44 PM The best you can hope for by calling is to be flipping against overcards.. This is a pretty loose range so you probs worse off Text results appended to pokerstove.txt 399,960 games 0.047 secs 8,509,787 games/sec Board: 9h 4c 2d Dead: equity win tie pots won pots tied Hand 0: 48.800% 48.65% 00.15% 194576 606.00 { 3h3s } Hand 1: 51.200% 51.05% 00.15% 204172 606.00 { 22+, A2s+, K9s+, Q9s+, J9s+, T9s, 97s+, A2o+, K9o+, Q9o+, J9o+, T9o, 97o+ } 4bet pre ftw [ ] That flop shove range is right. George i would just jam pre, as played its a call. fair enough.. can see range is ridic wide, out of interest tho how come you make it a call when equity only decreases as you tighten the range up? Nah dude, that range isn't wide enough. Villain will shove it in very wide cos he knows checking prob means conceding the pot. So the problem is you simply have no clue whether he's hit or not, and this is why calling pre just sets yourself up for a call and hope here. Pushing pre uses your chips in an infinitely better way. Eh?? He's included every pair, 9To+ and 79+ which is pretty much every hand in the deck. How many other hands are you thinking of? Particularly one's that would make this look better for George? Title: Re: 10r 3 handed with history Post by: MANTIS01 on January 31, 2009, 03:31:14 PM The best you can hope for by calling is to be flipping against overcards.. This is a pretty loose range so you probs worse off Text results appended to pokerstove.txt 399,960 games 0.047 secs 8,509,787 games/sec Board: 9h 4c 2d Dead: equity win tie pots won pots tied Hand 0: 48.800% 48.65% 00.15% 194576 606.00 { 3h3s } Hand 1: 51.200% 51.05% 00.15% 204172 606.00 { 22+, A2s+, K9s+, Q9s+, J9s+, T9s, 97s+, A2o+, K9o+, Q9o+, J9o+, T9o, 97o+ } 4bet pre ftw [ ] That flop shove range is right. George i would just jam pre, as played its a call. fair enough.. can see range is ridic wide, out of interest tho how come you make it a call when equity only decreases as you tighten the range up? Nah dude, that range isn't wide enough. Villain will shove it in very wide cos he knows checking prob means conceding the pot. So the problem is you simply have no clue whether he's hit or not, and this is why calling pre just sets yourself up for a call and hope here. Pushing pre uses your chips in an infinitely better way. Eh?? He's included every pair, 9To+ and 79+ which is pretty much every hand in the deck. How many other hands are you thinking of? Particularly one's that would make this look better for George? 5d 3d, 6c 8c oh and 2h Th :) Title: Re: 10r 3 handed with history Post by: EvilPie on January 31, 2009, 03:38:01 PM The best you can hope for by calling is to be flipping against overcards.. This is a pretty loose range so you probs worse off Text results appended to pokerstove.txt 399,960 games 0.047 secs 8,509,787 games/sec Board: 9h 4c 2d Dead: equity win tie pots won pots tied Hand 0: 48.800% 48.65% 00.15% 194576 606.00 { 3h3s } Hand 1: 51.200% 51.05% 00.15% 204172 606.00 { 22+, A2s+, K9s+, Q9s+, J9s+, T9s, 97s+, A2o+, K9o+, Q9o+, J9o+, T9o, 97o+ } 4bet pre ftw [ ] That flop shove range is right. George i would just jam pre, as played its a call. fair enough.. can see range is ridic wide, out of interest tho how come you make it a call when equity only decreases as you tighten the range up? Nah dude, that range isn't wide enough. Villain will shove it in very wide cos he knows checking prob means conceding the pot. So the problem is you simply have no clue whether he's hit or not, and this is why calling pre just sets yourself up for a call and hope here. Pushing pre uses your chips in an infinitely better way. Eh?? He's included every pair, 9To+ and 79+ which is pretty much every hand in the deck. How many other hands are you thinking of? Particularly one's that would make this look better for George? 5d 3d, 6c 8c oh and 2h Th :) Oh yes. Sorry mate, my bad. ;carlocitrone; Title: Re: 10r 3 handed with history Post by: MC on January 31, 2009, 04:09:05 PM Is this a fist pump call or have I created this problem for myself? Is he shoving any flop? This is more of a 'fingers crossed' call than a fist-pump call But you have call this flop, this flop is the reason you decided to flat preflop. Like I said, any overpair likes the same flops as you, and it's possible he's caught a random overcard if he was raising hands like 9Ts...but you have to call otherwise you should have just dumped the 33 preflop... Title: Re: 10r 3 handed with history Post by: Royal Flush on January 31, 2009, 04:20:39 PM The best you can hope for by calling is to be flipping against overcards.. This is a pretty loose range so you probs worse off Text results appended to pokerstove.txt 399,960 games 0.047 secs 8,509,787 games/sec Board: 9h 4c 2d Dead: equity win tie pots won pots tied Hand 0: 48.800% 48.65% 00.15% 194576 606.00 { 3h3s } Hand 1: 51.200% 51.05% 00.15% 204172 606.00 { 22+, A2s+, K9s+, Q9s+, J9s+, T9s, 97s+, A2o+, K9o+, Q9o+, J9o+, T9o, 97o+ } 4bet pre ftw [ ] That flop shove range is right. George i would just jam pre, as played its a call. fair enough.. can see range is ridic wide, out of interest tho how come you make it a call when equity only decreases as you tighten the range up? He doesn't shove 9x sets or overpairs very often here, the range is way too tight! Title: Re: 10r 3 handed with history Post by: EvilPie on January 31, 2009, 04:26:50 PM The best you can hope for by calling is to be flipping against overcards.. This is a pretty loose range so you probs worse off Text results appended to pokerstove.txt 399,960 games 0.047 secs 8,509,787 games/sec Board: 9h 4c 2d Dead: equity win tie pots won pots tied Hand 0: 48.800% 48.65% 00.15% 194576 606.00 { 3h3s } Hand 1: 51.200% 51.05% 00.15% 204172 606.00 { 22+, A2s+, K9s+, Q9s+, J9s+, T9s, 97s+, A2o+, K9o+, Q9o+, J9o+, T9o, 97o+ } 4bet pre ftw [ ] That flop shove range is right. George i would just jam pre, as played its a call. fair enough.. can see range is ridic wide, out of interest tho how come you make it a call when equity only decreases as you tighten the range up? He doesn't shove 9x sets or overpairs very often here, the range is way too tight! You've lost me here. Doesn't that make the range too wide? Surely we need to remove the 9x hands and sets and add hands like connected overcards which are already included? Bit confused ?? Title: Re: 10r 3 handed with history Post by: T_Mar on January 31, 2009, 04:43:25 PM The best you can hope for by calling is to be flipping against overcards.. This is a pretty loose range so you probs worse off Text results appended to pokerstove.txt 399,960 games 0.047 secs 8,509,787 games/sec Board: 9h 4c 2d Dead: equity win tie pots won pots tied Hand 0: 48.800% 48.65% 00.15% 194576 606.00 { 3h3s } Hand 1: 51.200% 51.05% 00.15% 204172 606.00 { 22+, A2s+, K9s+, Q9s+, J9s+, T9s, 97s+, A2o+, K9o+, Q9o+, J9o+, T9o, 97o+ } 4bet pre ftw [ ] That flop shove range is right. George i would just jam pre, as played its a call. fair enough.. can see range is ridic wide, out of interest tho how come you make it a call when equity only decreases as you tighten the range up? He doesn't shove 9x sets or overpairs very often here, the range is way too tight! right ok, can see he's not going to shove these hands, gives 33 about 60% against the wider range which as you say would make it a call :) Title: Re: 10r 3 handed with history Post by: T_Mar on January 31, 2009, 04:55:41 PM The best you can hope for by calling is to be flipping against overcards.. This is a pretty loose range so you probs worse off Text results appended to pokerstove.txt 399,960 games 0.047 secs 8,509,787 games/sec Board: 9h 4c 2d Dead: equity win tie pots won pots tied Hand 0: 48.800% 48.65% 00.15% 194576 606.00 { 3h3s } Hand 1: 51.200% 51.05% 00.15% 204172 606.00 { 22+, A2s+, K9s+, Q9s+, J9s+, T9s, 97s+, A2o+, K9o+, Q9o+, J9o+, T9o, 97o+ } 4bet pre ftw [ ] That flop shove range is right. George i would just jam pre, as played its a call. fair enough.. can see range is ridic wide, out of interest tho how come you make it a call when equity only decreases as you tighten the range up? He doesn't shove 9x sets or overpairs very often here, the range is way too tight! You've lost me here. Doesn't that make the range too wide? Surely we need to remove the 9x hands and sets and add hands like connected overcards which are already included? Bit confused ?? I interpreted this to mean that the hands he shoves are only the connected over card type hands, and not the ones we are in trouble against which although doesn't mean the actual range is wider, the equity we have is increased...?? Title: Re: 10r 3 handed with history Post by: Royal Flush on January 31, 2009, 05:39:07 PM Sorry yeah I mean the range is weighted far more towards no pair, it is tighter, but in a good way!!
Title: Re: 10r 3 handed with history Post by: EvilPie on January 31, 2009, 05:44:27 PM Sorry yeah I mean the range is weighted far more towards no pair, it is tighter, but in a good way!! That's what I thought. Bit of a weird one that. Title: Re: 10r 3 handed with history Post by: maldini32 on January 31, 2009, 10:00:02 PM Shove pre. Dont overcomplicate simple situations, your way too shallow to call wit 33 here.
Title: Re: 10r 3 handed with history Post by: George2Loose on February 01, 2009, 02:54:10 PM Cheers for the feedback guys- will obv shove in future.
I called on the flop and he had 10 6 and I held (obv) Title: Re: 10r 3 handed with history Post by: MANTIS01 on February 01, 2009, 03:48:33 PM Cheers for the feedback guys- will obv shove in future. I called on the flop and he had 10 6 and I held (obv) Knew T-Mar's range wasn't wide enough :) |