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Title: How did I play this? Post by: Claw75 on March 30, 2009, 11:09:41 PM Live sat for womens world open. 8 players left blinds 150/300/25 I have average chips - 11k. Folded to me on button and i raise to 1000 with jd 8d - called in sb. Flop Td 7c 5d. Sb bets 1100, i make it 3100 and sb calls. Checked to me on Js turn and i shove. Honest as you like please!
Title: Re: How did I play this? Post by: gatso on March 30, 2009, 11:16:30 PM sb stack?
assuming it's similar to yours then I quite like the line Title: Re: How did I play this? Post by: StuartHopkin on March 30, 2009, 11:21:09 PM Yeah cant see anything wrong here. Your ahead more than your not. Your J is disguised. You nearly always have outs.
Overpair and no diamond on the end? Title: Re: How did I play this? Post by: GreekStein on March 30, 2009, 11:27:29 PM raise less pre otherwise fine.
Title: Re: How did I play this? Post by: paulhouk03 on March 30, 2009, 11:55:17 PM Live sat for womens world open. 8 players left blinds 150/300/25 I have average chips - 11k. Folded to me on button and i raise to 1000 with jd 8d - called in sb. Flop 6d td 5c. Sb bets 1100, i make it 3100 and sb calls. Checked to me on js turn and i shove. Honest as you like please! how big is ur stack compared to the tablehow many seats? image or u and ur opponent? how crappy is the structure? i would raise less pre Title: Re: How did I play this? Post by: ChipRich on March 31, 2009, 12:06:21 AM Looks abs fine except raise less pre, 725-900 best imo.
Top pair and FD = nutttttttts Title: Re: How did I play this? Post by: Claw75 on March 31, 2009, 12:23:36 AM posted this from my iphone with battery about to go dead - flop was slight different - I had a gutshot too - have amended now. Small blind had around 15k.
Title: Re: How did I play this? Post by: ChipRich on March 31, 2009, 12:27:26 AM posted this from my iphone with battery about to go dead - flop was slight different - I had a gutshot too - have amended now. Small blind had around 15k. [X] dream flop nh Title: Re: How did I play this? Post by: Claw75 on March 31, 2009, 12:30:48 AM Live sat for womens world open. 8 players left blinds 150/300/25 I have average chips - 11k. Folded to me on button and i raise to 1000 with jd 8d - called in sb. Flop 6d td 5c. Sb bets 1100, i make it 3100 and sb calls. Checked to me on js turn and i shove. Honest as you like please! how big is ur stack compared to the tablehow many seats? image or u and ur opponent? how crappy is the structure? i would raise less pre 1 - average. 1 short stack, 1 big stack, everyone else roughly the same 2 - 1 seat 3 - my image - pretty nitty I would say. I've hardly played a hand during first couple of levels to get a feel for the table, and have had to pass to a couple of bets/raises. It's only really this level I've started getting active - but haven't yet had to show a hand I've raised with. Only hands I've had to show early doors are a couple of straights, top two pair, and flopped quads (yeah it was nice). Opponent seems pretty tight/passive. 4 - structure isn't too bad - 8000 starting stack, 25 min clock with antes coming in at level 4. Title: Re: How did I play this? Post by: Claw75 on March 31, 2009, 12:40:12 AM A couple of people have said raise less pre - with 650 in the pot is my raise not pretty standard here? I'm obviously happy to just pick up the blinds and antes here, so what would I be hoping to achieve by raising slightly less? Not being defensive, genuinely interested in reasoning - thanks!
Title: Re: How did I play this? Post by: Chompy on March 31, 2009, 12:43:52 AM Don't see how you can play it any other way Claw imo
Title: Re: How did I play this? Post by: AlexMartin on March 31, 2009, 02:57:32 AM Looks abs fine except raise less pre, 725-900 best imo. Top pair and FD + all important gutterball!!! = nutttttttts +1 Title: Re: How did I play this? Post by: boldie on March 31, 2009, 07:20:17 AM Looks abs fine except raise less pre, 725-900 best imo. Top pair and FD + all important gutterball!!! +knowing women can't fold= nutttttttts +1 +2 Title: Re: How did I play this? Post by: Claw75 on March 31, 2009, 02:40:07 PM A couple of people have said raise less pre - with 650 in the pot is my raise not pretty standard here? I'm obviously happy to just pick up the blinds and antes here, so what would I be hoping to achieve by raising slightly less? Not being defensive, genuinely interested in reasoning - thanks! anyone, please? Title: Re: How did I play this? Post by: boldie on March 31, 2009, 03:51:59 PM A couple of people have said raise less pre - with 650 in the pot is my raise not pretty standard here? I'm obviously happy to just pick up the blinds and antes here, so what would I be hoping to achieve by raising slightly less? Not being defensive, genuinely interested in reasoning - thanks! anyone, please? A smaller raise pre achieves exactly the same. If the blinds fold for 700 extra , they'll also fold for 600 more..If someone now back raises you, you've lost an extra 100. If someone calls you find yourself playing a bigger pot than is ideal and getting pot commited earlier than you should. It also allows people to come in with more marginal holdings than they would otherwise do if you do bet smaller sizes when you do have a big hand (which you can obviously still represent for less if you miss now) Say oppo checks the flop to you and you raised to 1k pre. 650 in the pot + your 1k + 850 from SB calling = 2500 in the pot. Oppo checks to you, what do you bet now to get him/her off? (BTW..what did you think when oppo bet 1100 into a 2500 pot?) 1750?..2k? Youraise to 800/850 pre= 2100/2200 in the pot. Oppo checks to you , what do you bet now to get oppo to fold? 1400'ish? you'll be saving yourself chips all the time while achieving the same result. Title: Re: How did I play this? Post by: dino1980 on March 31, 2009, 04:19:51 PM Good post Boldie,
The same logic applies to if your opponent had 3-bet pre and you then wanted to 4-bet shove. With out doing all the tedious maths here if you make it 2.5x (750 in this case) and she'd 3xd your raise to 2250 and then you'd shoved, your oppo would've been getting 1.83:1 to call. Whereas if you make it 1k here and oppo 3x's to 3k and you shove, she's now getting 1.57:1 on her call. I like the way you played it, i might make a bigger raise on the flop, purely to committ ourselves to the hand, because as it stands on the turn there's 8500ish in the pot and if the turn comes a total brick and we get shoved on it's kinda awkward spot i think. Title: Re: How did I play this? Post by: Claw75 on March 31, 2009, 04:22:05 PM A couple of people have said raise less pre - with 650 in the pot is my raise not pretty standard here? I'm obviously happy to just pick up the blinds and antes here, so what would I be hoping to achieve by raising slightly less? Not being defensive, genuinely interested in reasoning - thanks! anyone, please? A smaller raise pre achieves exactly the same. If the blinds fold for 700 extra , they'll also fold for 600 more..If someone now back raises you, you've lost an extra 100. If someone calls you find yourself playing a bigger pot than is ideal and getting pot commited earlier than you should. It also allows people to come in with more marginal holdings than they would otherwise do if you do bet smaller sizes when you do have a big hand (which you can obviously still represent for less if you miss now) Say oppo checks the flop to you and you raised to 1k pre. 650 in the pot + your 1k + 850 from SB calling = 2500 in the pot. Oppo checks to you, what do you bet now to get him/her off? (BTW..what did you think when oppo bet 1100 into a 2500 pot?) 1750?..2k? Youraise to 800/850 pre= 2100/2200 in the pot. Oppo checks to you , what do you bet now to get oppo to fold? 1400'ish? you'll be saving yourself chips all the time while achieving the same result. thanks boldie - that makes perfect sense. My standard raise in this position without antes in play would have been to 800, but I've got into the habit when antes are in play of adding their value to any raise. Should I just be forgetting about them altogether when determining how much the blinds are likely to call, or should I be dropping the amount of my raises when the antes aren't in play to, say 700 or so at this level? In answer to your question, as she's just flatted the raise it's hard to put her on a hand here. I read the less than half the pot sized bet as a feeler to find out where she was in the hand, hence my raise (to which she was supposed to fold - obv ;D). The flat call of my raise suggests she's got some of it at least. I was surprised she didn't shove the turn herself tbh. Title: Re: How did I play this? Post by: boldie on March 31, 2009, 04:26:48 PM A couple of people have said raise less pre - with 650 in the pot is my raise not pretty standard here? I'm obviously happy to just pick up the blinds and antes here, so what would I be hoping to achieve by raising slightly less? Not being defensive, genuinely interested in reasoning - thanks! anyone, please? A smaller raise pre achieves exactly the same. If the blinds fold for 700 extra , they'll also fold for 600 more..If someone now back raises you, you've lost an extra 100. If someone calls you find yourself playing a bigger pot than is ideal and getting pot commited earlier than you should. It also allows people to come in with more marginal holdings than they would otherwise do if you do bet smaller sizes when you do have a big hand (which you can obviously still represent for less if you miss now) Say oppo checks the flop to you and you raised to 1k pre. 650 in the pot + your 1k + 850 from SB calling = 2500 in the pot. Oppo checks to you, what do you bet now to get him/her off? (BTW..what did you think when oppo bet 1100 into a 2500 pot?) 1750?..2k? Youraise to 800/850 pre= 2100/2200 in the pot. Oppo checks to you , what do you bet now to get oppo to fold? 1400'ish? you'll be saving yourself chips all the time while achieving the same result. thanks boldie - that makes perfect sense. My standard raise in this position without antes in play would have been to 800, but I've got into the habit when antes are in play of adding their value to any raise. Should I just be forgetting about them altogether when determining how much the blinds are likely to call, or should I be dropping the amount of my raises when the antes aren't in play to, say 700 or so at this level? In answer to your question, as she's just flatted the raise it's hard to put her on a hand here. I read the less than half the pot sized bet as a feeler to find out where she was in the hand, hence my raise (to which she was supposed to fold - obv ;D). The flat call of my raise suggests she's got some of it at least. I was surprised she didn't shove the turn herself tbh. I obv don't know what hand she had but there is almost no excuse for bet/calling the flop and then shoving the turn. Check raising the turn after bet/calling the flop is almost always better, me thinks. Title: Re: How did I play this? Post by: Claw75 on March 31, 2009, 04:29:20 PM A couple of people have said raise less pre - with 650 in the pot is my raise not pretty standard here? I'm obviously happy to just pick up the blinds and antes here, so what would I be hoping to achieve by raising slightly less? Not being defensive, genuinely interested in reasoning - thanks! anyone, please? A smaller raise pre achieves exactly the same. If the blinds fold for 700 extra , they'll also fold for 600 more..If someone now back raises you, you've lost an extra 100. If someone calls you find yourself playing a bigger pot than is ideal and getting pot commited earlier than you should. It also allows people to come in with more marginal holdings than they would otherwise do if you do bet smaller sizes when you do have a big hand (which you can obviously still represent for less if you miss now) Say oppo checks the flop to you and you raised to 1k pre. 650 in the pot + your 1k + 850 from SB calling = 2500 in the pot. Oppo checks to you, what do you bet now to get him/her off? (BTW..what did you think when oppo bet 1100 into a 2500 pot?) 1750?..2k? Youraise to 800/850 pre= 2100/2200 in the pot. Oppo checks to you , what do you bet now to get oppo to fold? 1400'ish? you'll be saving yourself chips all the time while achieving the same result. thanks boldie - that makes perfect sense. My standard raise in this position without antes in play would have been to 800, but I've got into the habit when antes are in play of adding their value to any raise. Should I just be forgetting about them altogether when determining how much the blinds are likely to call, or should I be dropping the amount of my raises when the antes aren't in play to, say 700 or so at this level? In answer to your question, as she's just flatted the raise it's hard to put her on a hand here. I read the less than half the pot sized bet as a feeler to find out where she was in the hand, hence my raise (to which she was supposed to fold - obv ;D). The flat call of my raise suggests she's got some of it at least. I was surprised she didn't shove the turn herself tbh. I obv don't know what hand she had but there is almost no excuse for bet/calling the flop and then shoving the turn. Check raising the turn after bet/calling the flop is almost always better, me thinks. check raising the turn isn't really an option with our stack sizes (if she wants to take it down there and then). She had Qs Qh btw. Title: Re: How did I play this? Post by: celtic on March 31, 2009, 04:34:40 PM [ ] the bb played it well.
Title: Re: How did I play this? Post by: Claw75 on March 31, 2009, 04:36:28 PM [ ] the bb played it well. [ ] she didn't go on to use my chips to win the seat :( Title: Re: How did I play this? Post by: gatso on March 31, 2009, 05:04:04 PM [ ] the bb played it well. bit harsh imo. she passed pre and we don't know her cards Title: Re: How did I play this? Post by: Claw75 on March 31, 2009, 06:19:35 PM [ ] the bb played it well. bit harsh imo. she passed pre and we don't know her cards lol Title: Re: How did I play this? Post by: Rookie (Rodney) on March 31, 2009, 06:24:43 PM If someone now back raises you, Good post Boldie, Wrong. It could have been good though if that little let down above wasn't in your post. Title: Re: How did I play this? Post by: boldie on March 31, 2009, 07:19:50 PM If someone now back raises you, Good post Boldie, Wrong. It could have been good though if that little let down above wasn't in your post. fair point Title: Re: How did I play this? Post by: AlexMartin on April 01, 2009, 04:08:11 AM Good post Boldie, The same logic applies to if your opponent had 3-bet pre and you then wanted to 4-bet shove. With out doing all the tedious maths here if you make it 2.5x (750 in this case) and she'd 3xd your raise to 2250 and then you'd shoved, your oppo would've been getting 1.83:1 to call. Whereas if you make it 1k here and oppo 3x's to 3k and you shove, she's now getting 1.57:1 on her call. I like the way you played it, i might make a bigger raise on the flop, purely to committ ourselves to the hand, because as it stands on the turn there's 8500ish in the pot and if the turn comes a total brick and we get shoved on it's kinda awkward spot i think. I love it, sick minds think alike. yeah smaller open lets you 4b smash when they get out of line. Title: Re: How did I play this? Post by: Simon Galloway on April 01, 2009, 11:42:07 AM Good post Boldie, The same logic applies to if your opponent had 3-bet pre and you then wanted to 4-bet shove. With out doing all the tedious maths here if you make it 2.5x (750 in this case) and she'd 3xd your raise to 2250 and then you'd shoved, your oppo would've been getting 1.83:1 to call. Whereas if you make it 1k here and oppo 3x's to 3k and you shove, she's now getting 1.57:1 on her call. I like the way you played it, i might make a bigger raise on the flop, purely to committ ourselves to the hand, because as it stands on the turn there's 8500ish in the pot and if the turn comes a total brick and we get shoved on it's kinda awkward spot i think. I love it, sick minds think alike. yeah smaller open lets you 4b smash when they get out of line. Title: Re: How did I play this? Post by: TheChipPrince on April 01, 2009, 11:50:18 AM I would actually r.r.a.i on the flop i think, the hand we have is desperate to see the full 5 card board after that flop. Its a big overaise but oppo needs a bid hand to call otherwise we sweep up a nice 4k and add it to our stack.
Whats our plan if a black undercard comes after our raise to 3,100? We're in an awkward spot... The Jd is a dream card really, as played get it in now... Title: Re: How did I play this? Post by: dino1980 on April 01, 2009, 02:11:46 PM Quote Something didn't look intuitively right about the maths above, because when you raise smaller to start with then they are getting worse odds to call the 4bet. So I was expecting the second ratio to be at least bigger than the first. Wasn't sure if the ratios above were quoted the wrong way round or if I have yet again uncovered another flawed logic to my game. Yeah i put the odds the wrong way round, oops. |