How did I play this?

[dino1980]

Good post Boldie,

The same logic applies to if your opponent had 3-bet pre and you then wanted to 4-bet shove. With out doing all the tedious maths here if you make it 2.5x (750 in this case) and she'd 3xd your raise to 2250 and then you'd shoved, your oppo would've been getting 1.83:1 to call. Whereas if you make it 1k here and oppo 3x's to 3k and you shove, she's now getting 1.57:1 on her call.

I like the way you played it, i might make a bigger raise on the flop, purely to committ ourselves to the hand, because as it stands on the turn there's 8500ish in the pot and if the turn comes a total brick and we get shoved on it's kinda awkward spot i think.

[Claw75]

A couple of people have said raise less pre - with 650 in the pot is my raise not pretty standard here?  I'm obviously happy to just pick up the blinds and antes here, so what would I be hoping to achieve by raising slightly less?  Not being defensive, genuinely interested in reasoning - thanks!

anyone, please?

A smaller raise pre achieves exactly the same. If the blinds fold for  700 extra , they'll also fold for 600 more..If someone now back raises you, you've lost an extra 100. If someone calls you find yourself playing a bigger pot than is ideal and getting pot commited earlier than you should.

It also allows people to come in with more marginal holdings than they would otherwise do if you do bet smaller sizes when you do have a big hand (which you can obviously still represent for less if you miss now)

Say oppo checks the flop to you and you raised to 1k pre.

650 in the pot + your 1k + 850 from SB calling = 2500 in the pot.

Oppo checks to you, what do you bet now to get him/her off? (BTW..what did you think when oppo bet 1100 into a 2500 pot?) 1750?..2k?

Youraise to 800/850 pre= 2100/2200 in the pot.

Oppo checks to you , what do you bet now to get oppo to fold? 1400'ish?

you'll be saving yourself chips all the time while achieving the same result.





 

thanks boldie - that makes perfect sense.  My standard raise in this position without antes in play would have been to 800, but I've got into the habit when antes are in play of adding their value to any raise.  Should I just be forgetting about them altogether when determining how much the blinds are likely to call, or should I be dropping the amount of my raises when the antes aren't in play to, say 700 or so at this level?

In answer to your question, as she's just flatted the raise it's hard to put her on a hand here.  I read the less than half the pot sized bet as a feeler to find out where she was in the hand, hence my raise (to which she was supposed to fold - obv ).  The flat call of my raise suggests she's got some of it at least.  I was surprised she didn't shove the turn herself tbh.

[boldie]

A couple of people have said raise less pre - with 650 in the pot is my raise not pretty standard here?  I'm obviously happy to just pick up the blinds and antes here, so what would I be hoping to achieve by raising slightly less?  Not being defensive, genuinely interested in reasoning - thanks!

anyone, please?

A smaller raise pre achieves exactly the same. If the blinds fold for  700 extra , they'll also fold for 600 more..If someone now back raises you, you've lost an extra 100. If someone calls you find yourself playing a bigger pot than is ideal and getting pot commited earlier than you should.

It also allows people to come in with more marginal holdings than they would otherwise do if you do bet smaller sizes when you do have a big hand (which you can obviously still represent for less if you miss now)

Say oppo checks the flop to you and you raised to 1k pre.

650 in the pot + your 1k + 850 from SB calling = 2500 in the pot.

Oppo checks to you, what do you bet now to get him/her off? (BTW..what did you think when oppo bet 1100 into a 2500 pot?) 1750?..2k?

Youraise to 800/850 pre= 2100/2200 in the pot.

Oppo checks to you , what do you bet now to get oppo to fold? 1400'ish?

you'll be saving yourself chips all the time while achieving the same result.





 

thanks boldie - that makes perfect sense.  My standard raise in this position without antes in play would have been to 800, but I've got into the habit when antes are in play of adding their value to any raise.  Should I just be forgetting about them altogether when determining how much the blinds are likely to call, or should I be dropping the amount of my raises when the antes aren't in play to, say 700 or so at this level?

In answer to your question, as she's just flatted the raise it's hard to put her on a hand here.  I read the less than half the pot sized bet as a feeler to find out where she was in the hand, hence my raise (to which she was supposed to fold - obv ).  The flat call of my raise suggests she's got some of it at least.  I was surprised she didn't shove the turn herself tbh.

I obv don't know what hand she had but there is almost no excuse for bet/calling the flop and then shoving the turn. Check raising the turn after bet/calling the flop is almost always better, me thinks.

[Claw75]

A couple of people have said raise less pre - with 650 in the pot is my raise not pretty standard here?  I'm obviously happy to just pick up the blinds and antes here, so what would I be hoping to achieve by raising slightly less?  Not being defensive, genuinely interested in reasoning - thanks!

anyone, please?

A smaller raise pre achieves exactly the same. If the blinds fold for  700 extra , they'll also fold for 600 more..If someone now back raises you, you've lost an extra 100. If someone calls you find yourself playing a bigger pot than is ideal and getting pot commited earlier than you should.

It also allows people to come in with more marginal holdings than they would otherwise do if you do bet smaller sizes when you do have a big hand (which you can obviously still represent for less if you miss now)

Say oppo checks the flop to you and you raised to 1k pre.

650 in the pot + your 1k + 850 from SB calling = 2500 in the pot.

Oppo checks to you, what do you bet now to get him/her off? (BTW..what did you think when oppo bet 1100 into a 2500 pot?) 1750?..2k?

Youraise to 800/850 pre= 2100/2200 in the pot.

Oppo checks to you , what do you bet now to get oppo to fold? 1400'ish?

you'll be saving yourself chips all the time while achieving the same result.





 

thanks boldie - that makes perfect sense.  My standard raise in this position without antes in play would have been to 800, but I've got into the habit when antes are in play of adding their value to any raise.  Should I just be forgetting about them altogether when determining how much the blinds are likely to call, or should I be dropping the amount of my raises when the antes aren't in play to, say 700 or so at this level?

In answer to your question, as she's just flatted the raise it's hard to put her on a hand here.  I read the less than half the pot sized bet as a feeler to find out where she was in the hand, hence my raise (to which she was supposed to fold - obv ).  The flat call of my raise suggests she's got some of it at least.  I was surprised she didn't shove the turn herself tbh.

I obv don't know what hand she had but there is almost no excuse for bet/calling the flop and then shoving the turn. Check raising the turn after bet/calling the flop is almost always better, me thinks.

check raising the turn isn't really an option with our stack sizes (if she wants to take it down there and then).  She had btw.

[celtic]

[ ] the bb played it well.

[Claw75]

[ ] the bb played it well.

[  ] she didn't go on to use my chips to win the seat

[gatso]

[ ] the bb played it well.

bit harsh imo. she passed pre and we don't know her cards

[Claw75]

[ ] the bb played it well.

bit harsh imo. she passed pre and we don't know her cards

lol

[Rookie (Rodney)]

If someone now back raises you,

Good post Boldie,

Wrong.

It could have been good though if that little let down above wasn't in your post.

[boldie]

If someone now back raises you,

Good post Boldie,

Wrong.

It could have been good though if that little let down above wasn't in your post.

fair point

[AlexMartin]

Good post Boldie,

The same logic applies to if your opponent had 3-bet pre and you then wanted to 4-bet shove. With out doing all the tedious maths here if you make it 2.5x (750 in this case) and she'd 3xd your raise to 2250 and then you'd shoved, your oppo would've been getting 1.83:1 to call. Whereas if you make it 1k here and oppo 3x's to 3k and you shove, she's now getting 1.57:1 on her call.

I like the way you played it, i might make a bigger raise on the flop, purely to committ ourselves to the hand, because as it stands on the turn there's 8500ish in the pot and if the turn comes a total brick and we get shoved on it's kinda awkward spot i think.

I love it, sick minds think alike. yeah smaller open lets you 4b smash when they get out of line.

[Simon Galloway]

Good post Boldie,

The same logic applies to if your opponent had 3-bet pre and you then wanted to 4-bet shove. With out doing all the tedious maths here if you make it 2.5x (750 in this case) and she'd 3xd your raise to 2250 and then you'd shoved, your oppo would've been getting 1.83:1 to call. Whereas if you make it 1k here and oppo 3x's to 3k and you shove, she's now getting 1.57:1 on her call.

I like the way you played it, i might make a bigger raise on the flop, purely to committ ourselves to the hand, because as it stands on the turn there's 8500ish in the pot and if the turn comes a total brick and we get shoved on it's kinda awkward spot i think.

I love it, sick minds think alike. yeah smaller open lets you 4b smash when they get out of line.

Something didn't look intuitively right about the maths above, because when you raise smaller to start with then they are getting worse odds to call the 4bet.  So I was expecting the second ratio to be at least bigger than the first. Wasn't sure if the ratios above were quoted the wrong way round or if I have yet again uncovered another flawed logic to my game. 

[TheChipPrince]

I would actually r.r.a.i on the flop i think, the hand we have is desperate to see the full 5 card board after that flop.  Its a big overaise but oppo needs a bid hand to call otherwise we sweep up a nice 4k and add it to our stack.

Whats our plan if a black undercard comes after our raise to 3,100?  We're in an awkward spot...

The is a dream card really, as played get it in now...

[dino1980]

Something didn't look intuitively right about the maths above, because when you raise smaller to start with then they are getting worse odds to call the 4bet.  So I was expecting the second ratio to be at least bigger than the first. Wasn't sure if the ratios above were quoted the wrong way round or if I have yet again uncovered another flawed logic to my game. 

Yeah i put the odds the wrong way round, oops.