blonde poker forum

Played in DTD last night as you can't pass up a good scandie opportunity imo.

Bit of background to the hand....sat on a £1/2 uncapped game in which I was one of only 3 non scandies at the table. I bought in for £400 and 3 hours later my stack is at roughly £1550. I've been the butt of many 'nit' jokes that are all in good spirits as I've essentially nut peddled while the scandies have exchanged stacks with air most of the night and the table is now really deep with 7 people playing £1k+. I've shown down QQ,KK and A7clubs for a nut flush but I've picked up KK 3 times and got paid most streets on each occasion. One guy Tore is in for £3k+ and doesn't seem to like money or folding any hand. He's just rebought for £2k.

Anyway the hand in question is straddled to 4 8 and £16 and raised UTG +2 to £45. I pick up AA in the next seat and decide to overraise slightly as I knew the raiser at least was getting his £400 stack in but I didn't want to play a multiway pot or get cute this deep. I made it £185 and Tore on my left moves in for £2k declaring 'I haven't even looked but it might be fun to outdraw you' and then picks up his beer again. Cut off without much thought ships his £1400, a la Phil Hellmuth and SB dwells a while too before announcing all in for £1700. Initial raiser declares he can't pass and moves in for his last bit.

I was obviously like wtf as I expected to go heads up with Tore and fistpump my way to £3.5k. Obviously the shortstack is fairly irrelevant but I really didn't feel I had to gamble here with 4 people already all in with similar stacks to mine and my hand now being a significant dog to win the pot. If I lost it would have set me on tilt. Another consideration was that I didn't have my debit card and only another £300 on me which might not get me far again in this game whereas my strat of seeing flops with strong hands and getting paid by the scandies who we're happy calling off £200 with gutshots and bare overs etc was working perfectly.

Sorry for the rabble but just spoke to 2 ppl on msn and one thinks I should be shot and the other thinks my argument for passing is ok.

Thoughts appreciated.

*waits to get shot down*

If you're playing against someone who isn't looking at his cards, then by looking at yours you're putting yourself at a serious disadvantage. If you didn't know you had AA, you'd just ship the money in for the gamboool and wouldn't have this tough decision to make.

So, in summary - drink more, look less.

I think its borderline Greekstein, the statement below is a fair point, why use this sitution you describe when you can literally sit there and pick them off for value all day long...



I can see arguments for both, personally I call, but turn them over with my eyes closed knowing were probs only going to be about 30% - 40% fave against 3 others...




Oh, I guess even you are a nit compared to the scandies!!

The easiest Pass I ever saw.

I've made a grand without ever risking my stack. Why get greedy? I'll drive home just as happy with a £1k profit as I will with a £5k profit. And a lot happier than if I lost a grand playng no-look Scandie Bingo.

Do I need to end wih a smiley?.........

Firstly, I ship it in. Every day of every week.
I am not going to be playing under-rolled and its a +EV spot.

I reckon you are >40% to scoop, and as much as 50% (could be wrong tho).

Therefore 4 times out of 10 I am +£4.5k on the hand, and 6/10 down £1.5k.
Looks simple call to me.

I take your point about future EV with your current stack, but whats to say your next decision isn't going to be a similar call at worse odds, given the way the game is playing.

EV or not, I simply wouldn't risk the money.

I hate this thinking. you've been at the table long enough to know that however much you make it the hand is likely to be multiway. I'd prefer to see you make a min raise in this situation or maybe even a call to give us room to get away from the hand if, as is very likely, it all goes mental. you've got to pass given the action and could've saved yourself £140 if you'd just called

I couldn't disagree more...I reckon £185 is about the right amount...on a table like that you'll also gt plenty action no matter what you raise. I reckon you could call for an extra 1k though but no that everyone has shipped 2k'ish into the pot and you only have 3k, I'd fold.

Blatant brag post imo.

No poker player can afford to pass up this much EV.

anyone who says pass, GIVE UP POKER NOW!

if we are even thinking baout passing then, we shouldnt be playing this deep.

After the blind guy jams, AQ/AK are happy to get it in behind him. Snap call and collect the huge pot about 50-60% of the time imo.

I can see the reason why some would pass though.  Like you say, maybe he's playing too deep - so it should be time for him to get up and leave the table whilst he's ahead?

norrrrrrrrr i been levelled, wp

can he put like £750 in his pocket before he calls the final all in bet so that if he loses he's not too exposed. Then pull out the £750 and play with that?

rotflmfao

Happy April 1st.

But I would Pass......you know that. ;)

I think you should because I was thinking you might just be serious.

WTF!?!?!?!?!?!?!

How can this ever be a pass?

If you value the money that much why are you sat there still playing? Surely you knew that at some point you were going to end up in this sort of situation? Why else were you there?

You should just get up, pocket the grand and move to another table before you find yourself in this sort of situation.

Another thing. Don't forget that you're not actually in a 4 way pot. Forget the £400 x 4, it's the £1.5k x 3 that you're after. The rest would be a cheeky bonus.

Good point, missed that...

I hope this is a re-level

i do sympathise with your point of view cos, this is a sick amount of money, especially as you have been on a downswing. this is all about bankroll management really - im guessing that sitting with 1.5k is a large proportion of your bankroll (by large i mean >10%, and i think it may be a fair bit higher than this?)

everyone will have a different opinion on whether or not you should call - it just depends on whether the money would mean enough to them personally to warrant it. if so, you should not be at this table. I realise this is obvious with hindsight, but you must switch down tables (or just sit at another 1-2 table with a nice profit sealed up). If the table is so nice that you do not wish to move, you could always move back later (i think you need to be away for a certain amount of time - an hour?)

i would never sit in a game or tournament with more that 5% of my roll at risk. i know many people who would not move above 2% - work out a figure that is good for you and stick to it.

you have the best hand in the game how can you pass?
did the scandies know each other?
were they colluding? or any instancies of cheating


i would 100% it in all the time

bankroll managment as tom says. If ur not comfortable with the stakes you should be playing. Some of the answers in this thread must be levels.

You are walking out of a nightclub with a plain girl you have successfully pulled when a super fit girl gives you the eye. You have the choice of dumping the plain girl for a shot at super fit girl but obv in doing that you give up your guarantee of sex. However, if the planets are aligned properly and you do successfully score a coup with the hottie you will scoop mind-blowing sex. How much do you want or need sex? That is the question. How long's it been since you last had sex? Is settling for plain sex a sufficient life choice for you? Of course Tikay's gonna settle for whatever sex he can get :). I dunno though, I reckon if you've got a crack at Angelina Jolie maybe you should take it.

Correct. Against 4 random hands you are about 40% to win. So that's 60% to lose.

If you're not happy to lose 1550 then you should have got up and walked away before this hand

Pls call now

Anyway, I think it's crazy to ask us whether we want to gamle with your money dude. I watched Bullseye for years when I was a kid and at the end every time Jim Bowen asked the audience what they should do everybody just shouted gambbbbooollll as standard.

that's because everyone wants a speedboat. there's not even enough money in this pot to get a jetski so hardly a realistic comparison

There are people who are happy to lose £1,500? Presumably they are staked, yes?

Fair point

I snap shove my chips in to and I then hide under the table as they all make straights and two pair out of the crazy hands they have.

KK three times, mbfn. AA in a 4.5k pot MBSMFUFN

More importantly though.

How did I miss you last night? Did you get there late?

And even more importantly did you see your mate?
Red top?
Pretty young?
Thinks you will never play an EPT?!
He was still sat on table 64 when i left. Last heard him say 'Hope that Greekstein is about he's an absolute..............  :D

I love this thread, mainly because this week I saw it coming from someone!!!

This is what is bound to happen with the mad Scandies and you have to be prepared for it before you sit down. The decision here isn't really a poker one - we all know the maths - but more of a bankroll one.

Whether you call or not, is now down to how you feel about losing the money, relative to how much you have in reserve with which to play future poker. You have gone beyond the stage of making a rational poker based decision. It is nothing to do with skill or knowledge any more, it's now just about responding to a pain threshold. If you are honest enough to realise you shouldn't have got yourself in this spot, then you can pass. If you genuinely don't mind losing the £300 you sat down with and not the illusion of the current profit you are sitting on, then you can play on.

The popcorn is at the ready - did you call?

I think a part of the problem is that people say 'never fold aces' apart from in a Supersat yet rarely ever will anyone get a spot to get it all in pre with AA (and 750bb!!) against 3 others who have similar amounts. This creates a new situation that I have never seen in any strategy book or training website.

I also just spoke to another friend on msn who's been a cash pro for years. He's seen the topic and says that being 60% to lose over 7.5 buy ins in one hand means a fold is absolutely fine if our strat so far has been very lucrative and probably folds himself though I should have raised less pre.

Edit: haha Stu I didn't see the grimster. I didn't think you played until weekends so didn't keep my eye out for you mate. I came about midnight as I'd been for a meal in town with some old uni mates before. Gonna try come back up.

Normally just the weekends but this week is just special.

Probably there tonight and tomorrow to before Cardiff at the weekend.

I left about 12-30. Got bored, ended up on a table with 2 scandies playing proper poker, could have moved tables but had a meeting at 8-30 this morning so for once did the sensible thing!

Tonights mission, find a drunken table, get drunk, merryness, turn £150 into £1.5k ship the lot with AA and take it in the eye when J6 makes a straight. ;)

...ahh...so he called then

Yeah exactly. The equivalent is like being on Deal or No Deal with 1p and £100k left and Noel offering you £20k. Man, you really don't want to give up that 20k, but losing that 20k is prob going to sting less than seeing £100k sitting on the table if you take it.

No idea!

Thats what Im going to try and do tonight! I do hate money and all that.

P.s. Who are you Pyso? I have some possibilities but I cant decide who you are!

LOL, ok some clues -

From Nottingham (well, a bit further south), so a dtd regular
Kinboshi knows who I am
I played with you (briefly) about a week ago
38 years old
Have a reputation for not playing many hands and never bluffing (the first is true)


Haha, hope that helps. Does it eliminate any suspects?!!

I only know who you are because of your picture (although it was amiss of you to leave out the black eye)

It's not impossible that you are favourite to win!

Though I would be annoyed with myself if I had so much money on the table that I felt scared to lose it all, I would HATE myself if I turned down a great gamble.

This is a great gamble regardless of whether you are a dog to the field.

There are situations where despite this being multi-handed, you are STILL an overhwhelming favourite to win. Like this for example...

http://twodimes.net/poker/?g=h&b=&d=&h=As+Kc%0D%0AAc+Qc%0D%0AAd+Ah%0D%0AKd+Ks

I don't understand the nitty mentality of some saying "you're likely a dog so pass."

If someone came up to you with a tip for a dog race saying hey there's this dog who the bookies have at 5-1 but I happen to know for a fact he is 6-4 to win, you'd snap his arm off!

Well you might not beleive him, but what if he can show you absolute proof of this outstanding gamble? In poker, you get shown absolute proof.

NB: By the way, I always assume that if I am sat at a cash table and someone has me covered, I could lose it all the next hand. If I wasn't comfortable with this thought I would walk off and find a smaller game or get drunk with the scandies at the bar.

OK Happy was clearly the wrong word.

What I'm saying is that 1500 is clearly a huge win for greekstein as it would be for me or most players playing at this level.

I would lock up the money and stand up.

You could get you money in a 90% fave and still lose all that money- if the money means a lot to you= get up and sit down with 40 quid at 50p/£1 table

This a nice analogy to the hand. If I was on dond and got offered £20,000 in this spot I would simply have to take it. I have to imagine that this money is in my bank account (bankroll), and that by no dealing I am taking it out of my account and using it to gamble for the £100,000. Despite this being clearly +EV it is not a gamble I can afford to take.

This hand shows another gamble which is clearly +EV. The difference here though is that in poker we should be following proper BRM. If it is the case that you're happy to risk £300 on this game there's no problem. Now you've done well and worked it up to £1,500. If you're now unwilling to risk this then you're sat too deep and should probably walk away from the game, and sit down at another table with the £300 you're happy to lose.

I have no issues with a fold here if it has taken this hand to let you realise you're uncomfortable sitting with this much money. I'm not so sure I buy the arguments that we fold because we can find other +EV spots.

Agreed, this is why I call in the spot described. Sod the 'profit' currently sat on the table - if I call and win it's (very)happy days and if I lose, the reality is I just lost my buy in, which was only £300 or £400 if I remember rightly.

Live for the moment and fortune favours the brave.

But you haven't lost £300. You've lost £1,500. You can't just ignore the fact that you've won that money - it's yours, and can easily be sitting in your bank account. I can see the argument that you're only down £300 overall, but this really has to be put next to the fact that you were at one point £1200 up.

This is all about how you see the past, the present and the future. Once you make the call and lose you have lost £300 - that is a fact. Saying you've lost £1500 as well is only true if you are capable of warping the time travel continuum. If that is the way you will feel, then in the present, all we ever have remember, then you must pass.

But it's an interesting dichotomy, a bit of a chicken and egg way of looking at things. Which I suppose is why the thread is doing so well.

Also isn't folding this hand to walk away from the game a very different scenario from folding in order to play on? Realising you're in too deep is a decent reason to fold and leave, but folding to take advantage of future edges in the same game is a more questionable decision imo.

Insanely easy pass, This is 1 hand out of many you will play with scandie drunks that have more dough than sense, you know you can take more money off them throughout the course of the night, you will find much better spots to grind out a tasty profit rather than the thrillride of aces will they bust or wont they.

Multiway its a pass for me, i know i have an edge over the table i am happy to put that edge and my mammoth stack to use in pots i have more control over.

But what if he said the minimum bet is £5000, and that was a lot of money to you?

Ok thanks to those who fell for it hook line and sinker replied. I did infact call, and all three players showed QQ. Leknave infact won the pot with no cards, whilst he wasn't in the game, at the table or even in the same city. Damn, that boy is golden.

............................

It was Kin's idea to do this thread and I guess I'm a good person to use as not many blondes actually know me but I do post on PHA a fair bit. Those who do know me know I've never played scared money in my life; I remember in my student days at Notts gala sitting in the big saturday game with my whole roll, poker + life.

Unfortunately I wasn't able to get AA all in pre for 750bbs against 3 scandies and if I had I probably would still be in hospital after a rush of blood to somewhere that's not my head. Cheers to those who replied though, some really funny mixed responses, usually completely typical of those who posted them. Some tweaked straight away and helped us go along with it (particularly good convincing responses from Tikay!) and some people fell for it and either embarrassed themselves by saying 'pass' or thought 'how can this GreekStein bloke be such a pillock - he's a cash player ffs'.

Hopefully Kin can post the funnier deleted responses.

Booooo...should have left it run longer IMO!!!  Usually, anything Tikay's involved in runs for 20 pages prior to the reveal.  Bad beat.

:D

I had the initial idea, but it was so well executed Cos - a lot of thought went into that OP.

Sorry I had to delete a lot of people's responses early on - you'd have spoiled it for everyone with the early reveal.  Thanks to ChipPrince, gatso, AndrewT, tikay, Tighty and anyone else who helped to provide the base upon which Trigg and others could hang themselves ;).

!

Lolaments!

I thought it strange I hadnt seen him.
Thought it even stranger he hadnt seen the Kellster playing 5/10!

Only one thing to say really Kin, your mums an April.

At least I said call.

Nice post, although a little too believable imo. Crazy scandies.

Where do I find a no-look scandie bingo night ?

some quality replies from those who fell for it and some genuinely worrying ones too. top thread imo

lol...did anyone who said "fold" actually not know this was a level?

several I believe. those are the worrying ones to which I refer

It would have to be virtually my entire roll for me to pass it up. But I agree in certain spots you can turn down great gambles becuase the downside is just too big.

Anyway I got levelled lol gg wp Greekstein.

Got me,

Although the origonal post struck me as very similar to the compelling argument Stu Ungar made for passing AA preflop in a multiway allin pot. 

NH WP GG

I was reading the responses and thinking off ffs, fold if you hate money, please someone show me this is a level.

Thanks for not cotinuing I would have been ripping my hair out if i had read to the end and it wasnt a level.

 rotflmfao rotflmfao

LOL, did anyone see deal or no deal today?
She had £100 or £250,000 and was offered £50K.
She took the 50k.

Threesome FTW.

50k's a lot of money to a lot of people.  The offer sucks, but I'd rather have £50k than £100

yeah, for most people taking the 50k is probs correct here. ev becomes much less important in one off situations

i would deffo take 50k because it means alot to me i wouldnt consider it life changing but a nice amount
what was in the box

They did the hypothetical swap, resulting in her box having £250,000. Her original box however had £100.

£50,000 is about the minimum I would deal there. And I'd be glad as I'd have had £100 otherwise :)

Would have given her £60k for the box!

I always thought about this. Anyone going on the show should try and find a backer who's willing to give them a bit more than the offer in order to have a massive +EV gamble. Win win situation really.

And that's the way to play the game.  Find someone not averse to taking 6/4 on a flip beforehand and have an agreed signal (probably not coughing, TV producers found that line exploitable....) where you turn down the bankers offer but effectively hand over the game to your underwriter.  Then you don't have to take a poxy £50k because you don't have the stones to continue.

just get Flushy in the audience and tell Noel "I just need to ask someone a question"...and then ask him "So how much would you give me for the box?"

lol..how pissed would the production team be if you did that?