AA super deep - do I need to get in this spot pre?

[StuartHopkin]

I snap shove my chips in to and I then hide under the table as they all make straights and two pair out of the crazy hands they have.

KK three times, mbfn. AA in a 4.5k pot MBSMFUFN

More importantly though.

How did I miss you last night? Did you get there late?

And even more importantly did you see your mate?
Red top?
Pretty young?
Thinks you will never play an EPT?!
He was still sat on table 64 when i left. Last heard him say 'Hope that Greekstein is about he's an absolute..............  

[Pyso]

I love this thread, mainly because this week I saw it coming from someone!!!

This is what is bound to happen with the mad Scandies and you have to be prepared for it before you sit down. The decision here isn't really a poker one - we all know the maths - but more of a bankroll one.

Whether you call or not, is now down to how you feel about losing the money, relative to how much you have in reserve with which to play future poker. You have gone beyond the stage of making a rational poker based decision. It is nothing to do with skill or knowledge any more, it's now just about responding to a pain threshold. If you are honest enough to realise you shouldn't have got yourself in this spot, then you can pass. If you genuinely don't mind losing the £300 you sat down with and not the illusion of the current profit you are sitting on, then you can play on.

The popcorn is at the ready - did you call?

[GreekStein]

I think a part of the problem is that people say 'never fold aces' apart from in a Supersat yet rarely ever will anyone get a spot to get it all in pre with AA (and 750bb!!) against 3 others who have similar amounts. This creates a new situation that I have never seen in any strategy book or training website.

I also just spoke to another friend on msn who's been a cash pro for years. He's seen the topic and says that being 60% to lose over 7.5 buy ins in one hand means a fold is absolutely fine if our strat so far has been very lucrative and probably folds himself though I should have raised less pre.

Edit: haha Stu I didn't see the grimster. I didn't think you played until weekends so didn't keep my eye out for you mate. I came about midnight as I'd been for a meal in town with some old uni mates before. Gonna try come back up.

[StuartHopkin]

Normally just the weekends but this week is just special.

Probably there tonight and tomorrow to before Cardiff at the weekend.

I left about 12-30. Got bored, ended up on a table with 2 scandies playing proper poker, could have moved tables but had a meeting at 8-30 this morning so for once did the sensible thing!

Tonights mission, find a drunken table, get drunk, merryness, turn £150 into £1.5k ship the lot with AA and take it in the eye when J6 makes a straight.

[Pyso]

Tonights mission, find a drunken table, get drunk, merryness, turn £150 into £1.5k ship the lot with AA and take it in the eye when J6 makes a straight.

...ahh...so he called then

[MANTIS01]

I love this thread, mainly because this week I saw it coming from someone!!!

This is what is bound to happen with the mad Scandies and you have to be prepared for it before you sit down. The decision here isn't really a poker one - we all know the maths - but more of a bankroll one.

Whether you call or not, is now down to how you feel about losing the money, relative to how much you have in reserve with which to play future poker. You have gone beyond the stage of making a rational poker based decision. It is nothing to do with skill or knowledge any more, it's now just about responding to a pain threshold. If you are honest enough to realise you shouldn't have got yourself in this spot, then you can pass. If you genuinely don't mind losing the £300 you sat down with and not the illusion of the current profit you are sitting on, then you can play on.

The popcorn is at the ready - did you call?

Yeah exactly. The equivalent is like being on Deal or No Deal with 1p and £100k left and Noel offering you £20k. Man, you really don't want to give up that 20k, but losing that 20k is prob going to sting less than seeing £100k sitting on the table if you take it.

[StuartHopkin]

No idea!

Thats what Im going to try and do tonight! I do hate money and all that.

P.s. Who are you Pyso? I have some possibilities but I cant decide who you are!

[Pyso]

P.s. Who are you Pyso? I have some possibilities but I cant decide who you are!

LOL, ok some clues -

From Nottingham (well, a bit further south), so a dtd regular
Kinboshi knows who I am
I played with you (briefly) about a week ago
38 years old
Have a reputation for not playing many hands and never bluffing (the first is true)


Haha, hope that helps. Does it eliminate any suspects?!!

I only know who you are because of your picture (although it was amiss of you to leave out the black eye)

[JungleCat03]

It's not impossible that you are favourite to win!

Though I would be annoyed with myself if I had so much money on the table that I felt scared to lose it all, I would HATE myself if I turned down a great gamble.

This is a great gamble regardless of whether you are a dog to the field.

There are situations where despite this being multi-handed, you are STILL an overhwhelming favourite to win. Like this for example...

http://twodimes.net/poker/?g=h&b=&d=&h=As+Kc%0D%0AAc+Qc%0D%0AAd+Ah%0D%0AKd+Ks

I don't understand the nitty mentality of some saying "you're likely a dog so pass."

If someone came up to you with a tip for a dog race saying hey there's this dog who the bookies have at 5-1 but I happen to know for a fact he is 6-4 to win, you'd snap his arm off!

Well you might not beleive him, but what if he can show you absolute proof of this outstanding gamble? In poker, you get shown absolute proof.

NB: By the way, I always assume that if I am sat at a cash table and someone has me covered, I could lose it all the next hand. If I wasn't comfortable with this thought I would walk off and find a smaller game or get drunk with the scandies at the bar.

[George2Loose]

If you're not happy to lose 1550 then you should have got up and walked away before this hand

Pls call now

There are people who are happy to lose £1,500? Presumably they are staked, yes?

OK Happy was clearly the wrong word.

What I'm saying is that 1500 is clearly a huge win for greekstein as it would be for me or most players playing at this level.

I would lock up the money and stand up.

You could get you money in a 90% fave and still lose all that money- if the money means a lot to you= get up and sit down with 40 quid at 50p/£1 table

[Cf]

I love this thread, mainly because this week I saw it coming from someone!!!

This is what is bound to happen with the mad Scandies and you have to be prepared for it before you sit down. The decision here isn't really a poker one - we all know the maths - but more of a bankroll one.

Whether you call or not, is now down to how you feel about losing the money, relative to how much you have in reserve with which to play future poker. You have gone beyond the stage of making a rational poker based decision. It is nothing to do with skill or knowledge any more, it's now just about responding to a pain threshold. If you are honest enough to realise you shouldn't have got yourself in this spot, then you can pass. If you genuinely don't mind losing the £300 you sat down with and not the illusion of the current profit you are sitting on, then you can play on.

The popcorn is at the ready - did you call?

Yeah exactly. The equivalent is like being on Deal or No Deal with 1p and £100k left and Noel offering you £20k. Man, you really don't want to give up that 20k, but losing that 20k is prob going to sting less than seeing £100k sitting on the table if you take it.

This a nice analogy to the hand. If I was on dond and got offered £20,000 in this spot I would simply have to take it. I have to imagine that this money is in my bank account (bankroll), and that by no dealing I am taking it out of my account and using it to gamble for the £100,000. Despite this being clearly +EV it is not a gamble I can afford to take.

This hand shows another gamble which is clearly +EV. The difference here though is that in poker we should be following proper BRM. If it is the case that you're happy to risk £300 on this game there's no problem. Now you've done well and worked it up to £1,500. If you're now unwilling to risk this then you're sat too deep and should probably walk away from the game, and sit down at another table with the £300 you're happy to lose.

I have no issues with a fold here if it has taken this hand to let you realise you're uncomfortable sitting with this much money. I'm not so sure I buy the arguments that we fold because we can find other +EV spots.

[Pyso]

Yeah exactly. The equivalent is like being on Deal or No Deal with 1p and £100k left and Noel offering you £20k. Man, you really don't want to give up that 20k, but losing that 20k is prob going to sting less than seeing £100k sitting on the table if you take it.

Agreed, this is why I call in the spot described. Sod the 'profit' currently sat on the table - if I call and win it's (very)happy days and if I lose, the reality is I just lost my buy in, which was only £300 or £400 if I remember rightly.

Live for the moment and fortune favours the brave.

[Cf]

Yeah exactly. The equivalent is like being on Deal or No Deal with 1p and £100k left and Noel offering you £20k. Man, you really don't want to give up that 20k, but losing that 20k is prob going to sting less than seeing £100k sitting on the table if you take it.

Agreed, this is why I call in the spot described. Sod the 'profit' currently sat on the table - if I call and win it's (very)happy days and if I lose, the reality is I just lost my buy in, which was only £300 or £400 if I remember rightly.

Live for the moment and fortune favours the brave.

But you haven't lost £300. You've lost £1,500. You can't just ignore the fact that you've won that money - it's yours, and can easily be sitting in your bank account. I can see the argument that you're only down £300 overall, but this really has to be put next to the fact that you were at one point £1200 up.

[Pyso]

Yeah exactly. The equivalent is like being on Deal or No Deal with 1p and £100k left and Noel offering you £20k. Man, you really don't want to give up that 20k, but losing that 20k is prob going to sting less than seeing £100k sitting on the table if you take it.

Agreed, this is why I call in the spot described. Sod the 'profit' currently sat on the table - if I call and win it's (very)happy days and if I lose, the reality is I just lost my buy in, which was only £300 or £400 if I remember rightly.

Live for the moment and fortune favours the brave.

But you haven't lost £300. You've lost £1,500. You can't just ignore the fact that you've won that money - it's yours, and can easily be sitting in your bank account. I can see the argument that you're only down £300 overall, but this really has to be put next to the fact that you were at one point £1200 up.

This is all about how you see the past, the present and the future. Once you make the call and lose you have lost £300 - that is a fact. Saying you've lost £1500 as well is only true if you are capable of warping the time travel continuum. If that is the way you will feel, then in the present, all we ever have remember, then you must pass.

But it's an interesting dichotomy, a bit of a chicken and egg way of looking at things. Which I suppose is why the thread is doing so well.

[MANTIS01]

Also isn't folding this hand to walk away from the game a very different scenario from folding in order to play on? Realising you're in too deep is a decent reason to fold and leave, but folding to take advantage of future edges in the same game is a more questionable decision imo.